4 ms·

UK leading the way on this draconian bullshit as usual. You know its bad when your hope rests on big tech throwing down the gauntlet.

cjk2 2y ago
We do indeed lead the way in draconian bullshit. We also lead the way in making it utterly unworkable and useless through incompetence, cost cutting and cases getting shot down by ECHR though. Think of us as an example to the rest of the world on how to do a shitty job of consultation, legislation and implementation!
- kwhitefoot 2y ago
  > cases getting shot down by ECHR though. Weren't the Tories going to get the UK out of the European Convention on Human Rights? And thus remove the possibility of appealing the the European Court of Human Rights.
  - cjk2 2y ago
    Yes they are. They have a valid point leaving it regarding immigration, but the side effects of it are far more advantageous to them personally and this is not being discussed.
xyst 2y ago
USA is not too far behind. FISA was reauthorized despite outcry from many people. https://archive.is/3vKoO https://archive.is/3vKoO In a post-911 world, the people leading this country still leading by fear.
A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
The UK government seems hell-bent on the control and micromanagement of its own population. Their recent smoking ban -- which is sure to make cigarette smoking cool again with young people -- was a joke. This hyper-surveillance measure is a lot less funny.
- simonbarker87 2y ago
  The smoking ban is incredibly popular and supported by most people across all generations, also given we have tax payer funded healthcare this is a clear win for the nation.
  - lonelyasacloud 2y ago
    Popular but stupid. Surely we've learnt by now that outright prohibition is only good for funnelling money to criminals?
    - simonbarker87 2y ago
      Only if smoking is seen as cool, which it isn’t any more. Vaping is the way to go for kids these days and whilst still not great it seems like it’s better than smoking.
      - A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
        Spare some thought as to why it's no longer "seen as cool." That's about to be turned on its head. Banning smoking will make it seem edgy, transgressive, and alluring. Still worse, banning it only for people below a certain age will make it seem mature and sophisticated to those below the cutoff. The forbidden fruit. The UK Govt couldn't possibly devise a better way to popularize cigarettes with young people. And they'll create a nice little black market, to boot.
        nmca 2y ago
        suppose we design a reasonable experiment here, like taking a random sample of teenagers and mitigating for anonymity concerns. are you seriously claiming that this would show an increase after the ban? or to put it another way --- the phenomenon you point to is real but completely swamped by the more direct impacts
        2y ago

cjk2 2y ago

We do indeed lead the way in draconian bullshit. We also lead the way in making it utterly unworkable and useless through incompetence, cost cutting and cases getting shot down by ECHR though. Think of us as an example to the rest of the world on how to do a shitty job of consultation, legislation and implementation!

kwhitefoot 2y ago
> cases getting shot down by ECHR though. Weren't the Tories going to get the UK out of the European Convention on Human Rights? And thus remove the possibility of appealing the the European Court of Human Rights.
- cjk2 2y ago
  Yes they are. They have a valid point leaving it regarding immigration, but the side effects of it are far more advantageous to them personally and this is not being discussed.

xyst 2y ago

USA is not too far behind. FISA was reauthorized despite outcry from many people. https://archive.is/3vKoO https://archive.is/3vKoO In a post-911 world, the people leading this country still leading by fear.

A_D_E_P_T 2y ago

The UK government seems hell-bent on the control and micromanagement of its own population. Their recent smoking ban -- which is sure to make cigarette smoking cool again with young people -- was a joke. This hyper-surveillance measure is a lot less funny.

simonbarker87 2y ago
The smoking ban is incredibly popular and supported by most people across all generations, also given we have tax payer funded healthcare this is a clear win for the nation.
- lonelyasacloud 2y ago
  Popular but stupid. Surely we've learnt by now that outright prohibition is only good for funnelling money to criminals?
  - simonbarker87 2y ago
    Only if smoking is seen as cool, which it isn’t any more. Vaping is the way to go for kids these days and whilst still not great it seems like it’s better than smoking.
    - A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
      Spare some thought as to why it's no longer "seen as cool." That's about to be turned on its head. Banning smoking will make it seem edgy, transgressive, and alluring. Still worse, banning it only for people below a certain age will make it seem mature and sophisticated to those below the cutoff. The forbidden fruit. The UK Govt couldn't possibly devise a better way to popularize cigarettes with young people. And they'll create a nice little black market, to boot.
      - nmca 2y ago
        suppose we design a reasonable experiment here, like taking a random sample of teenagers and mitigating for anonymity concerns. are you seriously claiming that this would show an increase after the ban? or to put it another way --- the phenomenon you point to is real but completely swamped by the more direct impacts
        2y ago