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Well that make poor folks harder to fulfill nutrition requirements. Especially for kids that'd be devastating.

by eunos 2y ago

CWIZO 2y ago
A plant-based diet is cheaper than a regular diet: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea...
- pbhjpbhj 2y ago
  Looking at Tesco online in UK: there's a soy protein 'mince' a £3.72/kg. Beef or chicken mince at £5. Quorn mycoprotein at £8.33. Beyond Meat at £13. Out of the 5 vegan and 8 vegetarian options, only the soy protein is cheaper than meat. I might replace one meal a week with the soy protein, but I'd be concerned about long term effects of phytoestrogen, especially on growing children? Mind you many foods have some hidden soy 'bulk' nowadays. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/ relates to understanding of health benefits/detriments of soy.
  - triceratops 2y ago
    The imitation meat stuff is always expensive. Going straight to that for protein betrays a lack of imagination or culinary knowledge. How about beans, lentils, and frozen peas?
  - hrrbhgrrggb 2y ago
    You wouldn’t use “meat replacements” though you’d just eat a vegetarian diet. If hundreds of millions of Indians can do it, so can westerners.
    - pbhjpbhj 2y ago
      Change is hard for [some] people. Fail to acknowledge that and you'll fail to foment radical change. That said, I merely posted this data because I looked it up and found it interesting as a comparison.
  - cycomanic 2y ago
    Why do you need a "minced meat" substitute anyway? Compare your minced meat to a can of beans which one is cheaper. Moreover, it is well established research that most modern western diets contain too much animal products. If you think that living vegetarian causes so much problems, you need to explain how many cultures who live almost exclusively vegetarian (e.g. In some areas of India) without significant health problems.
skhunted 2y ago
The distribution of resources of the world is grossly unfair. Two things need to happen: fewer people and a cap on how much one person has.
- storf45 2y ago
  How does that happen? Any recommendations?
  - skhunted 2y ago
    Societal norms changing, government policies, free access to birth control, universal sex education, taxing the wealth of people who have too much, etc. It’s easy to implement once enough support is gained. This likely wont happen in my lifetime. It will only change when the change is forced. When we’ve made too much of the planet a toxic waste dump then people will be forced to change.
al_borland 2y ago
When my mom was growing up she had organ meats pretty regularly, as it was cheaper and they didn’t have a lot of money. Over in Scotland their national dish is haggis, which is a bunch of organ meats minced up, and then they add in some oats to bulk it up and make it go further. There are solutions to use more of the animal and stretch it. I almost never hear about people eating organ meats in the US anymore. People just find factory farmed cuts at rock bottom prices.
- Semaphor 2y ago
  FWIW, I was told that those parts are not wasted, but instead used for animal (e.g. for dogs, cats) food instead.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  One of the most consistent technological innovations throughout humanity's existence has been in improving how we eat, because eating is by far one of the biggest pleasures a person can have in life. The invention of fire revolutionized eating, the invention of agriculture revolutionized access to food at a fundamental level, the invention of refrigeration and freezing vastly expanded the reach and safety of food from point of harvest to dinner table, and the past century or so has dramatically democratized the kinds of food a person can choose to eat. This notion of sacrificing Quality of Eating(tm) is therefore a non-starter, humanity demands and strives for better eating. Any proposal to change how we produce food must accept it must co-exist with continued improvements to eating.
  - lm28469 2y ago
    > eating is by far one of the biggest pleasures a person can have in life. With 70% of the west being obese or overweight I think the pendulum swung way too far. > This notion of sacrificing Quality of Eating(tm) is therefore a non-starter When did factory farms meat become quality ?? I think you're mistaking quantity and low price for quality. You'd have to be blind to not see how the quality of food decreased in the past decades, my grandparents ate much less meat but almost everything was local
cycomanic 2y ago
General rule, when someone brings up that fact that some regulation makes things harder for "poor folks" it is almost never about poor people, but just figleafs for arguing against regulations. In reality it is the poor who are most affected by climate change, diseases, lack of food safety... If the people really cared about poor folks they would be arguing for more regulations, higher taxes, against credit card programs and lots of other things which effectively end up transferring wealth from the poor to the rich.

Well that make poor folks harder to fulfill nutrition requirements. Especially for kids that'd be devastating.

by eunos 2y ago

Well that make poor folks harder to fulfill nutrition requirements. Especially for kids that'd be devastating.

A plant-based diet is cheaper than a regular diet: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea...

pbhjpbhj 2y ago
Looking at Tesco online in UK: there's a soy protein 'mince' a £3.72/kg. Beef or chicken mince at £5. Quorn mycoprotein at £8.33. Beyond Meat at £13. Out of the 5 vegan and 8 vegetarian options, only the soy protein is cheaper than meat. I might replace one meal a week with the soy protein, but I'd be concerned about long term effects of phytoestrogen, especially on growing children? Mind you many foods have some hidden soy 'bulk' nowadays. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/ relates to understanding of health benefits/detriments of soy.
- triceratops 2y ago
  The imitation meat stuff is always expensive. Going straight to that for protein betrays a lack of imagination or culinary knowledge. How about beans, lentils, and frozen peas?
- hrrbhgrrggb 2y ago
  You wouldn’t use “meat replacements” though you’d just eat a vegetarian diet. If hundreds of millions of Indians can do it, so can westerners.
  - pbhjpbhj 2y ago
    Change is hard for [some] people. Fail to acknowledge that and you'll fail to foment radical change. That said, I merely posted this data because I looked it up and found it interesting as a comparison.
- cycomanic 2y ago
  Why do you need a "minced meat" substitute anyway? Compare your minced meat to a can of beans which one is cheaper. Moreover, it is well established research that most modern western diets contain too much animal products. If you think that living vegetarian causes so much problems, you need to explain how many cultures who live almost exclusively vegetarian (e.g. In some areas of India) without significant health problems.

skhunted 2y ago

The distribution of resources of the world is grossly unfair. Two things need to happen: fewer people and a cap on how much one person has.

storf45 2y ago
How does that happen? Any recommendations?
- skhunted 2y ago
  Societal norms changing, government policies, free access to birth control, universal sex education, taxing the wealth of people who have too much, etc. It’s easy to implement once enough support is gained. This likely wont happen in my lifetime. It will only change when the change is forced. When we’ve made too much of the planet a toxic waste dump then people will be forced to change.

al_borland 2y ago

When my mom was growing up she had organ meats pretty regularly, as it was cheaper and they didn’t have a lot of money. Over in Scotland their national dish is haggis, which is a bunch of organ meats minced up, and then they add in some oats to bulk it up and make it go further. There are solutions to use more of the animal and stretch it. I almost never hear about people eating organ meats in the US anymore. People just find factory farmed cuts at rock bottom prices.

Semaphor 2y ago
FWIW, I was told that those parts are not wasted, but instead used for animal (e.g. for dogs, cats) food instead.
Dalewyn 2y ago
One of the most consistent technological innovations throughout humanity's existence has been in improving how we eat, because eating is by far one of the biggest pleasures a person can have in life. The invention of fire revolutionized eating, the invention of agriculture revolutionized access to food at a fundamental level, the invention of refrigeration and freezing vastly expanded the reach and safety of food from point of harvest to dinner table, and the past century or so has dramatically democratized the kinds of food a person can choose to eat. This notion of sacrificing Quality of Eating(tm) is therefore a non-starter, humanity demands and strives for better eating. Any proposal to change how we produce food must accept it must co-exist with continued improvements to eating.
- lm28469 2y ago
  > eating is by far one of the biggest pleasures a person can have in life. With 70% of the west being obese or overweight I think the pendulum swung way too far. > This notion of sacrificing Quality of Eating(tm) is therefore a non-starter When did factory farms meat become quality ?? I think you're mistaking quantity and low price for quality. You'd have to be blind to not see how the quality of food decreased in the past decades, my grandparents ate much less meat but almost everything was local

cycomanic 2y ago

General rule, when someone brings up that fact that some regulation makes things harder for "poor folks" it is almost never about poor people, but just figleafs for arguing against regulations. In reality it is the poor who are most affected by climate change, diseases, lack of food safety... If the people really cared about poor folks they would be arguing for more regulations, higher taxes, against credit card programs and lots of other things which effectively end up transferring wealth from the poor to the rich.