7 ms·

> The Mac operating system still Just. Fucking. Sucks. at remembering where windows were, when relaunching apps. I agree and it's confounding. For me it's even

> The Mac operating system still Just. Fucking. Sucks. at remembering where windows were, when relaunching apps. I agree and it's confounding. For me it's even worse: when plugging back into my home office after some work on the road, it doesn't remember the window positions associated with that setup, and I have to reorganize my dozens of windows away from the laptop screen again. I've solved this through a 3rd-party tool, DisplayMaid https://funk-isoft.com/display-maid.html https://funk-isoft.com/display-maid.html (which I found from a prior HN discussion) It's particularly frustrating since Apple's most popular Mac product is their Macbooks, which have a rich docking and display ecosystem, so you'd think dynamically changing the desktop configuration would be solidly handled! But no.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
brtkdotse 2y ago
Three times I tried switching from Windows to Mac and each time I bounced because of how janky basic window ergonomics were. I shouldn't have to buy single-dollar-programs to fix core OS functionality.
- jemmyw 2y ago
  I wrote a hammerspoon script that moves my windows and the dock when I plug in to monitors. That's free, I agree we shouldn't have to have such a complex solution though. But I would bet that if Apple did provide a built in solution it would break the more complex solutions.
  - wasteduniverse 2y ago
    [dead]
  - happymellon 2y ago
    You make it sound like they give a damn about breaking 3rd party solutions at the moment.
- stevage 2y ago
  Huh. After years of mar I tried to go back to windows. I did it for 2 years but I'm so much happier on Mac again. I did kind of like the windows thg of dragging a window to the top to maximise, but that stuff is easy to replace with an app or two. General OS slowness and instability and clunky design not so much.
  - monsieurbanana 2y ago
    > General OS slowness and instability and clunky design not so much. I can't tell whether you're talking about Windows or Mac here
    - fx1994 2y ago
      Windows are not bad if you have control over them. But in corp env, you don't and the force updates, AV, FW, extra AV scans and other monitoring shit so even with 32 GB of RAM, fast SSD and latest i7 PC would start to act like it's Win98. That's why I switch to Mac M2, zero corporate shit and total control so it works great.
      - hu3 2y ago
        About FW and AV scans, doesn't macOS phone home when you execute programs? I remember some problem with programs hanging and/or slow to start because the phoning home functionality was having issues. edit: yep, it does https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/391379/does-macos-phone-home-to-apples-servers-before-running-an-app-for-the-first-tim https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/391379/does-macos-...
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        It does phone home yes, but people pretend it doesn't and only Windows is evil when it does so. At least it doesn't have ads.
        NBJack 2y ago
JR1427 2y ago
My company has enforced frequent updates of browsers and other software set up, so we are relaunching apps very often, and this drives me crazy. It feels like someone is walking over to your desk and moving everything around, just to annoy you.
- phito 2y ago
  Is it a Mac thing to keep applications open? I usually close mine as soon as I'm not actively using them
  - jemmyw 2y ago
    Not really, I would guess more of a personal workflow. I just have the same set of apps open the whole time, regardless of OS. Browser, test browser, code editor, terminal, chat, music player. That's enough windows to cause placement issues.
  - Y-bar 2y ago
    Yes I think it is, In Mac OS it has always been explicit that an application ≠ window (with only a few exceptions such as the calculator app). Closing an app window must not quit the application. This is reinforced by the menu bar which is always at the top of the screen rather than attached to an application window.
    - drekipus 2y ago
      Why is that? I'm a gnome/Linux user who had to switch to Mac M3 for work. Macos feels.... Half baked. I don't understand why apps should run after I close the window. I'm also annoyed that I can't type the window I want when viewing all windows. If I open mission control, it takes 3 clicks on the dock to run the app. (Un-do mission control, focus the dock, run the app.) That being said, I do like stage manager, I try to size my windows 90% so I can see the background windows.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        >Macos feels.... Half baked. I don't understand why apps should run after I close the window. Because that's what Steve Jobs decided and he was never wrong. /s The Apple philosophy always was "we know what's best for our users, it's our way or the highway, deal with it".
merizian 2y ago
Another option that works for me: https://cordlessdog.com/stay/ https://cordlessdog.com/stay/
cjk2 2y ago
Works fine for me. I sit down, plug my MBP 14" into the studio display, close the lid and carry on where I was. It does a reasonable job of window placement.
- emrox 2y ago
  probably works when using a single screen. But on a multi screen setup, so having the macbook as 2nd screen, it's not working
- ffsm8 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - cjk2 2y ago
    See my other comments in the topic.
    - ffsm8 2y ago
      Well, you're plainly stating what we've established here too: you either don't have reading comprehension or didn't read it. The arch of the CPU doesn't matter. I have the same issue on my M1 MacBook Pro 14" I really don't care wherever windows does it worse or better either... so your other comment didn't add anything to the situation, really.
      - cjk2 2y ago
        Insulting much?
        ffsm8 2y ago
        If you feel insulted by this observation then you should probably introspect a little and reread the comment you've initially responded to tomorrow, because your initial response really was misguided. Furthermore: I didn't insult you as such. I simply stated the only options I could determine from your behavior. Literally, what other option is there? Your point is still "it works for me with my single monitor setup" as a response to "this doesn't work with a multi monitor setup".
joshstrange 2y ago
> It's particularly frustrating since Apple's most popular Mac product is their Macbooks, which have a rich docking and display ecosystem, so you'd think dynamically changing the desktop configuration would be solidly handled! But no. I hear what you’re saying, but the vast majority of MacBook pros are probably never plugged into an external display. I know on Hacker News it’s a very different story, but for the general population, they don’t use external displays.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  In my case, I almost never use the MBP as a standalone. My replacement for it will be a Studio, whenever the M4 version comes out. I'll keep my current laptop as an "on the road" computer.
  - joshstrange 2y ago
    Same here. I’d say my laptop is docked 99.99% of the time. I was just pointing out a possible reason as to why multi-monitor support is not a higher priority for Apple. It’s a subset (multi-monitor) of a subset (Mac) of their business. I do wish it was better, but I’ve also found tools to work around all of my issues .
  - Capricorn2481 2y ago
    I just swipe with three fingers. I find that less annoying than dragging my mouse across displays and moving my head.
conradfr 2y ago
I've had the same problem on two MacBooks (one Intel, one M1), it restored the windows just fine when the (two) monitors were plugged black in until one day ... it stopped.
j45 2y ago
I would disagree about Apple having a "rich docking ecosystem". Apple might be the only major manufacturer to not provide their own docking solution that work extremely well, beyond trying to do it with a display. As soon as the "pro" moniker is used, 2, if not 3 monitors are completely normal. Extra wide monitors do not cut it. 3 24" 2k monitors at 2560x1440 can be far preferable to a single ultrawie that barely provides 2 monitors worth of pixels in the same space. Lenovo, HP, Dell, Microsoft, all have it nailed. Used almost all of them before Apple.
- goosedragons 2y ago
  It's also pretty bad if you have a personal computer and a work computer. It's mystifying that they sell $1000+ monitors with a single input. Like a terrible no name $100 POS these days will typically have two, if not 3 inputs.
  - j45 2y ago
    Once upon a time you could daisy chain Displayport monitors. The Matrox TripleHead2Go seems to remain relevant so many years after it's introduction, I used to run 3 monitors on my HP dock with one. Dynamite.
- seec 2y ago
  Nowadays, Pro at Apple mainly means "extra expensive", often doesn't have much to do with professional use even though sometimes it is actually at the intersection.
zuppy 2y ago
they used to have a bug a few years ago and some windows got to be placed outside the visible area when switching displays. there was no direct way to drag them back and restarting the app most of the time did nothing, as it reopened in the same place. there was a button somewhere on the display settings that had the purpose of moving every app to the current active screen, that one saved the day.
gregors 2y ago
yes, yes, yes. Losing window positions is my MAIN gripe! Thanks for the link you might have saved my sanity!
ryandrake 2y ago
I've been running a Mac three display system for 5+ years now, maybe even longer. A 27" iMac with two 27" Thunderbolt displays on each side. It mostly works well... I haven't really seen (or been bothered by) most of the problems that OP complains about. The only thing is these thunderbolt displays are getting pretty old, and Apple isn't making any more similar displays in this category. I've already replaced the guts of both of them as parts have failed, and one of them has a persistent problem with the thunderbolt cable, to the point where I had to use a separate cable rather than the built-in one. I admit I do get annoyed that even in a mostly unchanging environment (same monitors plugged into the same ports forever), macOS forgets where windows are supposed to go. Another thing is the OS's handling of plug in events. When you have just one monitor on and plug in another one, the main monitor blanks briefly, then both monitors turn on and you're good to go. Not too bad. But when you have two monitors on, and you plug in a third, it first blanks the secondary monitor, that comes back on, then it blanks both the secondary and main monitor, then they both come back on, and then the new monitor turns on. Super irritating.
pier25 2y ago
I haven't had any issues in Ventura with window positions when plugging and unplugging the external monitor with my MBP M2.
matthewtse 2y ago
Wow DisplayMaid looks useful. I managed to get my system "working" without knowing about it. I have a macbook and an external display, and I utilize "desktops" heavily. Basically desktop: 1 = gmail/calendar | 2 = slack, messenger, imessage, etc. | 3 = chrome | 4 = terminal | 5 = vscode In the dock you can right click an app, and Options, Assign to Desktop N. Luckily, when I plug my macbook into the dock with monitor, I actually want it to be a static desktop, showing just the website I'm working on. And I want the monitor to switch through desktops that have my applications. This basically just works with one caveat. When switching from plugged in to unplugged, the macbook screen becomes desktop 1, and all the desktops shift over by one. So I just rearranged everything to be +1 (i.e. gmail/calendar are actually always desktop 2), and everything works seamlessly.
ak217 2y ago
While MacOS does seem to rearrange windows occasionally for no clear reason, and there have been serious bugs in past releases, it does correctly restore my window positions across two 4k external displays when I connect them through a Thunderbolt 4 docking station. Maybe some applications have custom window position management and fail at multiple displays? I haven't noticed any. The only third party tool that I use to help with window management is BetterSnapTool. It restores some basic missing functionality that comes built in in Windows, most importantly the ability to maximize windows and snap them to the left and right half of the screen, plus a few other things. FWIW I am by far at my most productive with a 43" 4K display in front of me with a sidecar 23" arranged vertically for long vertical documents. I do wish that 43" was an 8K to double the DPI though.
fennecbutt 2y ago
Yip. It always bugs me that so many fundamental things aren't implemented; no native calendar in the taskbar (well top/status bar) so I gotta use an app. Finder fucking sucks, it doesn't remember which sort order I've set for which folder and I constantly have to change it between alphabetical and created date, mostly for the file open dialog (alphabet for vscode folder open, created date for slack or browser file upload). For all of Apple's bluster they're really only as good as any other company when it comes to the "it just works" experience, often worse.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

brtkdotse 2y ago

Three times I tried switching from Windows to Mac and each time I bounced because of how janky basic window ergonomics were. I shouldn't have to buy single-dollar-programs to fix core OS functionality.

jemmyw 2y ago
I wrote a hammerspoon script that moves my windows and the dock when I plug in to monitors. That's free, I agree we shouldn't have to have such a complex solution though. But I would bet that if Apple did provide a built in solution it would break the more complex solutions.
- wasteduniverse 2y ago
  [dead]
- happymellon 2y ago
  You make it sound like they give a damn about breaking 3rd party solutions at the moment.
stevage 2y ago
Huh. After years of mar I tried to go back to windows. I did it for 2 years but I'm so much happier on Mac again. I did kind of like the windows thg of dragging a window to the top to maximise, but that stuff is easy to replace with an app or two. General OS slowness and instability and clunky design not so much.
- monsieurbanana 2y ago
  > General OS slowness and instability and clunky design not so much. I can't tell whether you're talking about Windows or Mac here
  - fx1994 2y ago
    Windows are not bad if you have control over them. But in corp env, you don't and the force updates, AV, FW, extra AV scans and other monitoring shit so even with 32 GB of RAM, fast SSD and latest i7 PC would start to act like it's Win98. That's why I switch to Mac M2, zero corporate shit and total control so it works great.
    - hu3 2y ago
      About FW and AV scans, doesn't macOS phone home when you execute programs? I remember some problem with programs hanging and/or slow to start because the phoning home functionality was having issues. edit: yep, it does https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/391379/does-macos-phone-home-to-apples-servers-before-running-an-app-for-the-first-tim https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/391379/does-macos-...
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        It does phone home yes, but people pretend it doesn't and only Windows is evil when it does so. At least it doesn't have ads.
        NBJack 2y ago

JR1427 2y ago

My company has enforced frequent updates of browsers and other software set up, so we are relaunching apps very often, and this drives me crazy. It feels like someone is walking over to your desk and moving everything around, just to annoy you.

phito 2y ago
Is it a Mac thing to keep applications open? I usually close mine as soon as I'm not actively using them
- jemmyw 2y ago
  Not really, I would guess more of a personal workflow. I just have the same set of apps open the whole time, regardless of OS. Browser, test browser, code editor, terminal, chat, music player. That's enough windows to cause placement issues.
- Y-bar 2y ago
  Yes I think it is, In Mac OS it has always been explicit that an application ≠ window (with only a few exceptions such as the calculator app). Closing an app window must not quit the application. This is reinforced by the menu bar which is always at the top of the screen rather than attached to an application window.
  - drekipus 2y ago
    Why is that? I'm a gnome/Linux user who had to switch to Mac M3 for work. Macos feels.... Half baked. I don't understand why apps should run after I close the window. I'm also annoyed that I can't type the window I want when viewing all windows. If I open mission control, it takes 3 clicks on the dock to run the app. (Un-do mission control, focus the dock, run the app.) That being said, I do like stage manager, I try to size my windows 90% so I can see the background windows.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >Macos feels.... Half baked. I don't understand why apps should run after I close the window. Because that's what Steve Jobs decided and he was never wrong. /s The Apple philosophy always was "we know what's best for our users, it's our way or the highway, deal with it".

merizian 2y ago

Another option that works for me: https://cordlessdog.com/stay/ https://cordlessdog.com/stay/

cjk2 2y ago

Works fine for me. I sit down, plug my MBP 14" into the studio display, close the lid and carry on where I was. It does a reasonable job of window placement.

emrox 2y ago
probably works when using a single screen. But on a multi screen setup, so having the macbook as 2nd screen, it's not working
ffsm8 2y ago
[flagged]
- cjk2 2y ago
  See my other comments in the topic.
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    Well, you're plainly stating what we've established here too: you either don't have reading comprehension or didn't read it. The arch of the CPU doesn't matter. I have the same issue on my M1 MacBook Pro 14" I really don't care wherever windows does it worse or better either... so your other comment didn't add anything to the situation, really.
    - cjk2 2y ago
      Insulting much?
      - ffsm8 2y ago
        If you feel insulted by this observation then you should probably introspect a little and reread the comment you've initially responded to tomorrow, because your initial response really was misguided. Furthermore: I didn't insult you as such. I simply stated the only options I could determine from your behavior. Literally, what other option is there? Your point is still "it works for me with my single monitor setup" as a response to "this doesn't work with a multi monitor setup".

joshstrange 2y ago

> It's particularly frustrating since Apple's most popular Mac product is their Macbooks, which have a rich docking and display ecosystem, so you'd think dynamically changing the desktop configuration would be solidly handled! But no. I hear what you’re saying, but the vast majority of MacBook pros are probably never plugged into an external display. I know on Hacker News it’s a very different story, but for the general population, they don’t use external displays.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
In my case, I almost never use the MBP as a standalone. My replacement for it will be a Studio, whenever the M4 version comes out. I'll keep my current laptop as an "on the road" computer.
- joshstrange 2y ago
  Same here. I’d say my laptop is docked 99.99% of the time. I was just pointing out a possible reason as to why multi-monitor support is not a higher priority for Apple. It’s a subset (multi-monitor) of a subset (Mac) of their business. I do wish it was better, but I’ve also found tools to work around all of my issues .
- Capricorn2481 2y ago
  I just swipe with three fingers. I find that less annoying than dragging my mouse across displays and moving my head.

conradfr 2y ago

I've had the same problem on two MacBooks (one Intel, one M1), it restored the windows just fine when the (two) monitors were plugged black in until one day ... it stopped.

j45 2y ago

I would disagree about Apple having a "rich docking ecosystem". Apple might be the only major manufacturer to not provide their own docking solution that work extremely well, beyond trying to do it with a display. As soon as the "pro" moniker is used, 2, if not 3 monitors are completely normal. Extra wide monitors do not cut it. 3 24" 2k monitors at 2560x1440 can be far preferable to a single ultrawie that barely provides 2 monitors worth of pixels in the same space. Lenovo, HP, Dell, Microsoft, all have it nailed. Used almost all of them before Apple.

goosedragons 2y ago
It's also pretty bad if you have a personal computer and a work computer. It's mystifying that they sell $1000+ monitors with a single input. Like a terrible no name $100 POS these days will typically have two, if not 3 inputs.
- j45 2y ago
  Once upon a time you could daisy chain Displayport monitors. The Matrox TripleHead2Go seems to remain relevant so many years after it's introduction, I used to run 3 monitors on my HP dock with one. Dynamite.
seec 2y ago
Nowadays, Pro at Apple mainly means "extra expensive", often doesn't have much to do with professional use even though sometimes it is actually at the intersection.

zuppy 2y ago

they used to have a bug a few years ago and some windows got to be placed outside the visible area when switching displays. there was no direct way to drag them back and restarting the app most of the time did nothing, as it reopened in the same place. there was a button somewhere on the display settings that had the purpose of moving every app to the current active screen, that one saved the day.

gregors 2y ago

yes, yes, yes. Losing window positions is my MAIN gripe! Thanks for the link you might have saved my sanity!

ryandrake 2y ago

I've been running a Mac three display system for 5+ years now, maybe even longer. A 27" iMac with two 27" Thunderbolt displays on each side. It mostly works well... I haven't really seen (or been bothered by) most of the problems that OP complains about. The only thing is these thunderbolt displays are getting pretty old, and Apple isn't making any more similar displays in this category. I've already replaced the guts of both of them as parts have failed, and one of them has a persistent problem with the thunderbolt cable, to the point where I had to use a separate cable rather than the built-in one. I admit I do get annoyed that even in a mostly unchanging environment (same monitors plugged into the same ports forever), macOS forgets where windows are supposed to go. Another thing is the OS's handling of plug in events. When you have just one monitor on and plug in another one, the main monitor blanks briefly, then both monitors turn on and you're good to go. Not too bad. But when you have two monitors on, and you plug in a third, it first blanks the secondary monitor, that comes back on, then it blanks both the secondary and main monitor, then they both come back on, and then the new monitor turns on. Super irritating.

pier25 2y ago

I haven't had any issues in Ventura with window positions when plugging and unplugging the external monitor with my MBP M2.

matthewtse 2y ago

Wow DisplayMaid looks useful. I managed to get my system "working" without knowing about it. I have a macbook and an external display, and I utilize "desktops" heavily. Basically desktop: 1 = gmail/calendar | 2 = slack, messenger, imessage, etc. | 3 = chrome | 4 = terminal | 5 = vscode In the dock you can right click an app, and Options, Assign to Desktop N. Luckily, when I plug my macbook into the dock with monitor, I actually want it to be a static desktop, showing just the website I'm working on. And I want the monitor to switch through desktops that have my applications. This basically just works with one caveat. When switching from plugged in to unplugged, the macbook screen becomes desktop 1, and all the desktops shift over by one. So I just rearranged everything to be +1 (i.e. gmail/calendar are actually always desktop 2), and everything works seamlessly.

ak217 2y ago

While MacOS does seem to rearrange windows occasionally for no clear reason, and there have been serious bugs in past releases, it does correctly restore my window positions across two 4k external displays when I connect them through a Thunderbolt 4 docking station. Maybe some applications have custom window position management and fail at multiple displays? I haven't noticed any. The only third party tool that I use to help with window management is BetterSnapTool. It restores some basic missing functionality that comes built in in Windows, most importantly the ability to maximize windows and snap them to the left and right half of the screen, plus a few other things. FWIW I am by far at my most productive with a 43" 4K display in front of me with a sidecar 23" arranged vertically for long vertical documents. I do wish that 43" was an 8K to double the DPI though.

fennecbutt 2y ago

Yip. It always bugs me that so many fundamental things aren't implemented; no native calendar in the taskbar (well top/status bar) so I gotta use an app. Finder fucking sucks, it doesn't remember which sort order I've set for which folder and I constantly have to change it between alphabetical and created date, mostly for the file open dialog (alphabet for vscode folder open, created date for slack or browser file upload). For all of Apple's bluster they're really only as good as any other company when it comes to the "it just works" experience, often worse.