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Is the author suggesting he’s not traveling to the US out of security concerns? Is that really a thing?

by echoangle 2y ago

youngtaff 2y ago
Yes, there are plenty of people who avoid travelling to the US
- echoangle 2y ago
  I know that, but I didn’t think it was because of security. I don’t think of the US as particularly dangerous, but maybe my perception is wrong…
  - RVuRnvbM2e 2y ago
    The homicide rate is 8x Australia's, so yeah it is by comparison.
  - _ZeD_ 2y ago
    I know that US is vast, and there are millions of good places where one could feel safe, but I assure you, from the outside sometimes is seems you live in a mad max alternate universe
    - echoangle 2y ago
      I’m from Europe, but I would have no problem going to a tech meeting with some google engineers in Silicon Valley.
  - JonChesterfield 2y ago
    It's the guns and the police. People get angry or frightened. It's better for everyone else if they're not carrying a firearms at that point. Policing a nation where everyone is armed means the police are heavily armed and the non-insane ones very frightened all the time. See above.
    - lambdaone 2y ago
      Worse than that, having a gun doesn't make you safer; it increases the risk to everyone in your household. But I can absolutely understand why fear drives people to own guns -- it's a vicious circle as increased gun ownership drives fear, which in turn drives even more gun purchases...
  - bildung 2y ago
    Homicide rate is 10x the rate of EU and over 30x the rate of Japan: https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/a-decade-of-declining-violence-worldwide-except-in-the-usa-and-latin-america,17534 https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/a... Rape rate is about 3x the rate of EU: https://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf https://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/crime_stats_oecdjan... People killed by police (population adjusted) is about 30x the rate of Germany: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... https://polizeischuesse.cilip.de/?p=1&year=2023 https://polizeischuesse.cilip.de/?p=1&year=2023
    - echoangle 2y ago
      Sure, but those rates are also really low. That’s a bit like saying you’re scared of using your car because a plane is much safer. The chance of getting hurt while visiting a meeting in Silicon Valley is still one in a million.
- UberFly 2y ago
  Likely out of ignorance of actual violent crime statistics.
rob74 2y ago
Apparently... of course, the threat of "mass casualty violence and terrorist attacks" is real, but you're probably still more likely to die in a plane crash while getting to the US (or in a car accident while there) than in a shooting or terrorist attack. And if you insist on only travelling to countries that have a lower level of violent crime than Australia, you probably won't get around much (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-crime-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-c...)...
- squigz 2y ago
  Oops, you forgot the other 2 travel advisories the author quoted in that part: - "Violent crime is more common in the US than in Australia" - "Medical costs in the US are extremely high. You may need to pay up-front for medical assistance" I think some Americans don't realize that, outside of America, many people don't ever consider the risk of gun violence in their day-to-day lives, or owing thousands of dollars for visiting a hospital.
  - rob74 2y ago
    Actually, I specifically addressed the violent crime thing... As for the medical costs - if you want to be on the safe side, you can (actually you should) get travel health insurance.
    - vbezhenar 2y ago
      I've heard horror stories about hospitals not accepting insurance. Wouldn't want to be in a situation of being ill and having to pay more than I can earn in a lifetime.
      - cjk2 2y ago
        They will accept it. The cover has to be specifically for US hospitals otherwise the insurer won't pay out and they know that and won't accept it. You have to avoid insurers who only cover certain providers as well. You have to read your insurance contract and info sheet properly rather than go for the lowest price.
isodev 2y ago
Indeed, the author is not alone. It may be subjective but there are worries one needs to reconcile when planning a trip to the US (both for work as well as private trips). It’s often that we choose another destination or “can we find a way to make this remotely”.
_ZeD_ 2y ago
well... yes. I, for one, am slightly worried to go to the US.
aden1ne 2y ago
Yes, this is a thing.
cjk2 2y ago
I think it's a hefty chunk of paranoia. The US is absolutely a non-issue unless you have previously pissed them off. This is the same for every country. What is not is walking 30km in the middle of nowhere in Central Asia because you didn't have enough cash to pay the driver's bribe. Stuff like that is a far more realistic concern than the security border paranoia stuff that goes on. Know where you are going, plan ahead and stay out of obvious trouble. That applies everywhere. The US is not special. (Incidentally when I got to the first town, the guy in the shop laughed at me and invited me in for tea and dinner on him and his wife and I got to learn all about their history under Russia - it's not all bad)
hug 2y ago
The last time I was in the US, specifically in Seattle, there were two separate shootings within blocks of where I was at the time, and one at a bar an hour after I left it. As an Australian, seeing it on the news the next mornings made me very, very uncomfortable. I understand that these shootings are unlikely to ever involve me, and I’m not discomforted to the point that I won’t go back to the US, but it is worth understanding that gun crime in the US is seen as uncomfortable and concerning to many. That my US friends who were at the same venues with me were completely blasé about it left me a little nonplussed.
eesmith 2y ago
From https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/54450#discussioncomment-6942056 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/54450#discussi... : "I'm Australian so I wont be attending either (I am not comfortable to enter the US due to a preexisting medical issue)." That's the "Medical costs in the US are extremely high. You may need to pay up-front for medical assistance" part of the text. I do not know if travel health insurance generally covers complications from a pre-existing condition, and as other mentioned, getting travel insurance which covers the US is already a special case.

Is the author suggesting he’s not traveling to the US out of security concerns? Is that really a thing?

youngtaff 2y ago

Yes, there are plenty of people who avoid travelling to the US

echoangle 2y ago
I know that, but I didn’t think it was because of security. I don’t think of the US as particularly dangerous, but maybe my perception is wrong…
- RVuRnvbM2e 2y ago
  The homicide rate is 8x Australia's, so yeah it is by comparison.
- _ZeD_ 2y ago
  I know that US is vast, and there are millions of good places where one could feel safe, but I assure you, from the outside sometimes is seems you live in a mad max alternate universe
  - echoangle 2y ago
    I’m from Europe, but I would have no problem going to a tech meeting with some google engineers in Silicon Valley.
- JonChesterfield 2y ago
  It's the guns and the police. People get angry or frightened. It's better for everyone else if they're not carrying a firearms at that point. Policing a nation where everyone is armed means the police are heavily armed and the non-insane ones very frightened all the time. See above.
  - lambdaone 2y ago
    Worse than that, having a gun doesn't make you safer; it increases the risk to everyone in your household. But I can absolutely understand why fear drives people to own guns -- it's a vicious circle as increased gun ownership drives fear, which in turn drives even more gun purchases...
- bildung 2y ago
  Homicide rate is 10x the rate of EU and over 30x the rate of Japan: https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/a-decade-of-declining-violence-worldwide-except-in-the-usa-and-latin-america,17534 https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/a... Rape rate is about 3x the rate of EU: https://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf https://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/crime_stats_oecdjan... People killed by police (population adjusted) is about 30x the rate of Germany: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... https://polizeischuesse.cilip.de/?p=1&year=2023 https://polizeischuesse.cilip.de/?p=1&year=2023
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Sure, but those rates are also really low. That’s a bit like saying you’re scared of using your car because a plane is much safer. The chance of getting hurt while visiting a meeting in Silicon Valley is still one in a million.
UberFly 2y ago
Likely out of ignorance of actual violent crime statistics.

rob74 2y ago

Apparently... of course, the threat of "mass casualty violence and terrorist attacks" is real, but you're probably still more likely to die in a plane crash while getting to the US (or in a car accident while there) than in a shooting or terrorist attack. And if you insist on only travelling to countries that have a lower level of violent crime than Australia, you probably won't get around much (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-crime-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-c...)...

squigz 2y ago
Oops, you forgot the other 2 travel advisories the author quoted in that part: - "Violent crime is more common in the US than in Australia" - "Medical costs in the US are extremely high. You may need to pay up-front for medical assistance" I think some Americans don't realize that, outside of America, many people don't ever consider the risk of gun violence in their day-to-day lives, or owing thousands of dollars for visiting a hospital.
- rob74 2y ago
  Actually, I specifically addressed the violent crime thing... As for the medical costs - if you want to be on the safe side, you can (actually you should) get travel health insurance.
  - vbezhenar 2y ago
    I've heard horror stories about hospitals not accepting insurance. Wouldn't want to be in a situation of being ill and having to pay more than I can earn in a lifetime.
    - cjk2 2y ago
      They will accept it. The cover has to be specifically for US hospitals otherwise the insurer won't pay out and they know that and won't accept it. You have to avoid insurers who only cover certain providers as well. You have to read your insurance contract and info sheet properly rather than go for the lowest price.

isodev 2y ago

Indeed, the author is not alone. It may be subjective but there are worries one needs to reconcile when planning a trip to the US (both for work as well as private trips). It’s often that we choose another destination or “can we find a way to make this remotely”.

_ZeD_ 2y ago

well... yes. I, for one, am slightly worried to go to the US.

aden1ne 2y ago

Yes, this is a thing.

cjk2 2y ago

I think it's a hefty chunk of paranoia. The US is absolutely a non-issue unless you have previously pissed them off. This is the same for every country. What is not is walking 30km in the middle of nowhere in Central Asia because you didn't have enough cash to pay the driver's bribe. Stuff like that is a far more realistic concern than the security border paranoia stuff that goes on. Know where you are going, plan ahead and stay out of obvious trouble. That applies everywhere. The US is not special. (Incidentally when I got to the first town, the guy in the shop laughed at me and invited me in for tea and dinner on him and his wife and I got to learn all about their history under Russia - it's not all bad)

hug 2y ago

The last time I was in the US, specifically in Seattle, there were two separate shootings within blocks of where I was at the time, and one at a bar an hour after I left it. As an Australian, seeing it on the news the next mornings made me very, very uncomfortable. I understand that these shootings are unlikely to ever involve me, and I’m not discomforted to the point that I won’t go back to the US, but it is worth understanding that gun crime in the US is seen as uncomfortable and concerning to many. That my US friends who were at the same venues with me were completely blasé about it left me a little nonplussed.

eesmith 2y ago

From https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/54450#discussioncomment-6942056 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/54450#discussi... : "I'm Australian so I wont be attending either (I am not comfortable to enter the US due to a preexisting medical issue)." That's the "Medical costs in the US are extremely high. You may need to pay up-front for medical assistance" part of the text. I do not know if travel health insurance generally covers complications from a pre-existing condition, and as other mentioned, getting travel insurance which covers the US is already a special case.