4 ms·

Nice, just hope that canonical will lay off with the snap push. Otherwise looks really nice, will roll it out on my home machine today. > Cloud images no longe

Nice, just hope that canonical will lay off with the snap push. Otherwise looks really nice, will roll it out on my home machine today. > Cloud images no longer preseed any snaps by default Yes! Small improvement, but still.

sevagh 2y ago
They'll shutter Snap and adopt Flatpak in ~3 years.
- selivanovp 2y ago
  No, unless flatpak will be able to do what snap does for Canonical for years.
  - tjoff 2y ago
    Drive users away?
    - curt15 2y ago
      What's driving users away is not snap but rather Canonical's heavy-handed way of foisting snap on users that would make Microsoft proud.
      - tjoff 2y ago
        ... which on its own is one of the better reasons to ditch a distro.
      - bigstrat2003 2y ago
        Yeah this is exactly it. I don't really give a damn about snaps. But when I use apt to install something, and the OS silently installs a snap version instead, that's not acceptable to me. I'm not going to ever use Ubuntu again where I have a choice, personally.
        curt15 2y ago
        >But when I use apt to install something, and the OS silently installs a snap version instead Does `apt remove` remove the snap?
        vetinari 2y ago
        And then 'apt install firefox' or 'apt install thunderbird' installs it back.
  - sevagh 2y ago
    Just like they wasted time and effort on Unity and shuttered it in favor of Gnome, and they wasted time and effort on Mir and shuttered it in favor of Wayland, and they wasted time and effort on Upstart and shuttered it in favor of systemd. Canonical will fail once again, but only after jerking the community around for multiple years.
    - NewJazz 2y ago
      They didn't invest much into Upstart at all, and quickly announced a switch after Debian adopted systemd. They still maintain Mir, as a Wayland display server. Unity was one of the most popular desktop environments and brought Ubuntu users a lot of value over the years. It even influenced the design of GNOME 3.
      - freedomben 2y ago
        Yeah I'm generally critical of Canonical for these moves, but Upstart is one I actually think was good and well done, as was their decision to move to systemd. Upstart was more pre-systemd anyway. IIRC Red Hat also used Upstart for a major release as well before moving all the way to systemd.
      - extraduder_ire 2y ago
        I didn't understand much of the unity hate, especially compared to things like gnome 3. Really wish I could have HUD, combined titlebar/top panel, and typo-resilient search back. The latter two are possible with gnome extensions but don't work quite as well.
        sevagh 2y ago
        It's not so much hating what they do but the manner in which they do it. CLAs and not contributing upstream from the get-go means Canonical's special stuff cannot go further than Canonical.
        NewJazz 2y ago
  - vetinari 2y ago
    > able to do what snap does for Canonical for years. Exclusive control over the only available apps store? Not going to happen.
- kkfx 2y ago
  Considering the fact that Snap and Flatpak are both crap interesting to sell commercial crap on GNU/Linux and not anything else...
  - cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
    Are we still doing “GNU/Linux”? I thought that dog whistle was dead.
    - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
      Dog whistle?
      - Starman_Jones 2y ago
        Here's what they are referring to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy
  - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
    Snaps are crap. Flatpaks are a cross distro sandboxable package format. That's why it won the cross distro package war. How is that crap?
    - ahartmetz 2y ago
      Snap taking a dump into the output of "mount" alone is reason enough for me to hate it. I want to see my drives, not that three bundles of libraries are separately mounted into "firefox snap dir" and three others into "snap base package dir" or whatever. There are other offenders, but Snap is the worst. I resort to "df" these days, but it doesn't show filesystem type and mount flags.
      - tryauuum 2y ago
        this is a pretty weird complaint, the beauty of mount output shouldn't be in the developers' priorities
- 3v1n0 2y ago
  Flatpak don't allow what snap doesn at lower levels than apps (kernel, system daemons...). So it's not possible.

sevagh 2y ago

They'll shutter Snap and adopt Flatpak in ~3 years.

selivanovp 2y ago
No, unless flatpak will be able to do what snap does for Canonical for years.
- tjoff 2y ago
  Drive users away?
  - curt15 2y ago
    What's driving users away is not snap but rather Canonical's heavy-handed way of foisting snap on users that would make Microsoft proud.
    - tjoff 2y ago
      ... which on its own is one of the better reasons to ditch a distro.
    - bigstrat2003 2y ago
      Yeah this is exactly it. I don't really give a damn about snaps. But when I use apt to install something, and the OS silently installs a snap version instead, that's not acceptable to me. I'm not going to ever use Ubuntu again where I have a choice, personally.
      - curt15 2y ago
        >But when I use apt to install something, and the OS silently installs a snap version instead Does `apt remove` remove the snap?
        vetinari 2y ago
        And then 'apt install firefox' or 'apt install thunderbird' installs it back.
- sevagh 2y ago
  Just like they wasted time and effort on Unity and shuttered it in favor of Gnome, and they wasted time and effort on Mir and shuttered it in favor of Wayland, and they wasted time and effort on Upstart and shuttered it in favor of systemd. Canonical will fail once again, but only after jerking the community around for multiple years.
  - NewJazz 2y ago
    They didn't invest much into Upstart at all, and quickly announced a switch after Debian adopted systemd. They still maintain Mir, as a Wayland display server. Unity was one of the most popular desktop environments and brought Ubuntu users a lot of value over the years. It even influenced the design of GNOME 3.
    - freedomben 2y ago
      Yeah I'm generally critical of Canonical for these moves, but Upstart is one I actually think was good and well done, as was their decision to move to systemd. Upstart was more pre-systemd anyway. IIRC Red Hat also used Upstart for a major release as well before moving all the way to systemd.
    - extraduder_ire 2y ago
      I didn't understand much of the unity hate, especially compared to things like gnome 3. Really wish I could have HUD, combined titlebar/top panel, and typo-resilient search back. The latter two are possible with gnome extensions but don't work quite as well.
      - sevagh 2y ago
        It's not so much hating what they do but the manner in which they do it. CLAs and not contributing upstream from the get-go means Canonical's special stuff cannot go further than Canonical.
        NewJazz 2y ago
- vetinari 2y ago
  > able to do what snap does for Canonical for years. Exclusive control over the only available apps store? Not going to happen.
kkfx 2y ago
Considering the fact that Snap and Flatpak are both crap interesting to sell commercial crap on GNU/Linux and not anything else...
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
  Are we still doing “GNU/Linux”? I thought that dog whistle was dead.
  - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
    Dog whistle?
    - Starman_Jones 2y ago
      Here's what they are referring to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy
- shrimp_emoji 2y ago
  Snaps are crap. Flatpaks are a cross distro sandboxable package format. That's why it won the cross distro package war. How is that crap?
  - ahartmetz 2y ago
    Snap taking a dump into the output of "mount" alone is reason enough for me to hate it. I want to see my drives, not that three bundles of libraries are separately mounted into "firefox snap dir" and three others into "snap base package dir" or whatever. There are other offenders, but Snap is the worst. I resort to "df" these days, but it doesn't show filesystem type and mount flags.
    - tryauuum 2y ago
      this is a pretty weird complaint, the beauty of mount output shouldn't be in the developers' priorities
3v1n0 2y ago
Flatpak don't allow what snap doesn at lower levels than apps (kernel, system daemons...). So it's not possible.