11 ms·

Ubuntu 24.04 Noble Numbat

180 points by jeswin 2y ago

cs702 2y ago
Looks like a no-brainer if you're on the Ubuntu treadmill. Key differences versus the previous LTS version: * Distribution packages built with additional security-hardening features * Linux Kernel 6.8 * Gnome 46 * Updated utils and apps --- Users who train AI models on Ubuntu machines should wait until their ML stack (typically, Nvidia + PyTorch) is known to run without issues on 24.04. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40157645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40157645 --- Source: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39890 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39...
- ryanisnan 2y ago
  Asking genuinely, what causes Ubuntu to be more of a treadmill from say Debian?
  - cs702 2y ago
    Sorry, I don't understand your question. By "treadmill" I mean sticking to a particular distro year after year, upgrading regularly -- it could be Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, CentOS, etc. Unless you're constantly switching distros, you're on a treadmill. I wasn't comparing Ubuntu to other distros.
    - FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
      "Treadmill" is usually used pejoratively, e.g. hedonistic treadmill.
      - cs702 2y ago
        Thanks. Yes, you're right, sometimes "treadmill" is used pejoratively to describe forced upgrades that otherwise would be unnecessary. I was referring to the fact that we are all voluntarily installing security updates and/or improved versions of the software we use, year after year.
        halJordan 2y ago
        Fwiw i did not understand your original comment as pejorative, and thought it was a well done turn of phrase
        ahartmetz 2y ago
        FWIW, I did pick up the pejorative connotation at first, but then realized it probably wasn't intended that way due to the complete lack of other negativity in the post.
      - gloryjulio 2y ago
        It's hackernews. I would recognize that this is in a joking manner
    - ryanisnan 2y ago
      Oh I see. I interpreted your comment as if it were more of a treadmill than other distributions.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    If you use the non-LTS versions of Ubuntu then you are expected to upgrade to each new version in short order, the previous version (23.10) is only supported until July.
    - ryanisnan 2y ago
      Django has the same problem. You either have to upgrade all the time, or you have to jump LTS to LTS, which is also not advised from Django's perspective.
      - cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
        There are so many ways in which the Django upgrade process could be worse, and IMO very few ways in which it could be better. Not really sure how this is a “problem”.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    I wish Debian was a treadmill with fixed release dates like Ubuntu has.
    - mort96 2y ago
      I mean it's not the same month every time, but it seems to be on a pretty stable 2 year cycle?
    - NewJazz 2y ago
      What benefit would that have? Even if new versions are not released on a fixed schedule, you don't have to upgrade immediately.
      - actionfromafar 2y ago
        Migration scheduling and planning for total software lifetime. Everything is just smoother on a fixed cadence.
        NewJazz 2y ago
        You can do a fixed cadence even if Debian doesn't though. Just every year, upgrade to the new stable if it is available.
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        Yeah, but now you have your own problems instead of pain shared by millions of other users. A lot of orgs on the same cadence is a great and under-estimated thing. I'm just sayin'
        NewJazz 2y ago
        I don't get what you mean, actually. A lot of orgs upgrading simultaneously means that none of them have prior experience to look to. A staggered rollout of new software versions is often viewed as a less risky deployment method.
- echelon 2y ago
  > Looks like a no-brainer if you're on the Ubuntu treadmill. It'll take forever for ML packages to upgrade. The Python/ML/PyTorch ecosystem is slow to move.
  - cs702 2y ago
    Good point! I'll edit my comment.
  - Symmetry 2y ago
    I'll be trying to get PyTorch working on Docker with 24.04 and an AMD card. Lets see how that works out.
  - gpjt 2y ago
    I've been running my ML stack on Arch for the last six months and haven't had any issues so far. So perhaps not a big issue on a more stable distro like Ubuntu.
- meunal 2y ago
  "Users who train AI models on Ubuntu machines should wait until their ML stack (typically, Nvidia + PyTorch) is known to run without issues on 24.04." NVIDIA + PyTorch user here. No issues at all (w/ 550.54.15).
  - paulmd 2y ago
    I'm here for the upstreamed Arc GPU support, lol. I could probably have made it work with 22.04 with enough poking but I don't generally like upgrading major versions anyway. I was actually checking earlier but it hadn't released yet, lol. Probably jumping the gun anyway - it doesn't look like Arc has a release of the dev tooling for 24.04 yet anyway, no `noble` repo yet either. I figured at least I could get passthrough working to a 22.04 container, couldn't get the intel_iommu to behave, looks like it was still getting sucked up by the parent OS despite my GRUB kernel options. Might need to try HWE on the VM host too, or maybe it's just a fact of life based on how the outputs are wired up on my serpent canyon NUC (headless might work better, perhaps?). I'm actually fine if the ML stuff takes a bit, I kinda just want to play with GPGPU and I definitely want to play with the AV1 encoder. I ended up bumping into the same issue that stalled me out before, it happens in both 22.04 HWE and 24.04, the step about installing the out-of-kernel modules is busted. Installing the i915-dkms can't be done at the same time as the platform-vsec-dkms and platform-cse-dkms, apparently? But I pushed on it a little harder, and it seems like it works if you run two separate apt commands. I've got a couple of these weird environments, I need to set up a way to virtualize and passthrough them so I don't have to maintain actual machines for it. Not sure exactly what that looks like, maybe proxmox and some qemu machines in a pseudo-ESXi configuration or something. When I get around to getting the new disks in my NAS, I can also do iscsi/iPXE I guess (and I have optane for write cache).
lolinder 2y ago
It might be better to link directly to the release notes for more context: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39890 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39...
proxysna 2y ago
Nice, just hope that canonical will lay off with the snap push. Otherwise looks really nice, will roll it out on my home machine today. > Cloud images no longer preseed any snaps by default Yes! Small improvement, but still.
- sevagh 2y ago
  They'll shutter Snap and adopt Flatpak in ~3 years.
  - selivanovp 2y ago
    No, unless flatpak will be able to do what snap does for Canonical for years.
    - tjoff 2y ago
      Drive users away?
      - curt15 2y ago
        What's driving users away is not snap but rather Canonical's heavy-handed way of foisting snap on users that would make Microsoft proud.
        tjoff 2y ago
        ... which on its own is one of the better reasons to ditch a distro.
        bigstrat2003 2y ago
        Yeah this is exactly it. I don't really give a damn about snaps. But when I use apt to install something, and the OS silently installs a snap version instead, that's not acceptable to me. I'm not going to ever use Ubuntu again where I have a choice, personally.
jakebasile 2y ago
Some of the other flavors/architectures are available now, too: - Kubuntu https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ - Xubuntu https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ - Lubuntu https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ - Budgie https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-budgie/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-budgie/releases/24.04/rele... - MATE https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/releases/24.04/releas... - Cinnamon https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntucinnamon/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntucinnamon/releases/24.04/rel... - Unity https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-unity/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-unity/releases/24.04/relea... - Kylin https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntukylin/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntukylin/releases/24.04/releas... - Alternate "Ubuntu" Builds https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/24.04/release/
- haunter 2y ago
  The "new", reforged, Unity spin is very underrated. It's actually a very nice DE, wish Ubuntu never abandoned it https://unityd.org/ https://unityd.org/
  - riidom 2y ago
    That's slightly confusing, it is not this, right? https://ubuntuunity.org/posts/ubuntu-unity-2404-released/ https://ubuntuunity.org/posts/ubuntu-unity-2404-released/
    - mminer237 2y ago
      That is a flavor of Ubuntu with Unity as its DE. unityd.org is the website of the DE itself.
- snvzz 2y ago
  >Alternate "Ubuntu" Builds https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/24.04/release/ Including RISC-V, and ready to use images for many boards such as VisionFive 2.
throwaway77384 2y ago
[flagged]
- lifeinthevoid 2y ago
  Let me get this straight, you're on a version released 6 years ago and complaining it's not supported anymore?
- rafaelturk 2y ago
  ?. This comment makes no sense, why can't you upgrade Ubuntu? You don't have access to root?
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  Why are you stuck? Ubuntu supports updating over major versions.
- mort96 2y ago
  Which other distro still supports a release from 2018 without paying for support?
  - jhasse 2y ago
    Rocky Linux / AlmaLinux (or CentOS before them) offer 10 years of support and they are free.
- lolinder 2y ago
  https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/how-to-upgrade-your-release https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/how-to-upgrade-your-release
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    Purely anecdata, but I've lost count just how many Ubuntus (more accurately Debian and derivatives, I guess?) I've murdered in cold blood with sudo apt update and sudo apt upgrade.
aborsy 2y ago
Is it immutable, as Fedora? The new installer looks nice!
- jug 2y ago
  No, this release is not immutable like Fedora Silverblue. Ubuntu Core Desktop is planned to be, and was planned to be launched with this, but it was pushed back: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/02/ubuntu-core-desktop-delayed https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/02/ubuntu-core-desktop-dela...
  - aborsy 2y ago
    So it will be similar to ChromeOS and Fedora. Full sandboxing, secure boot rooted in hardware, immutable. Frankly, it’s a good transition (even though it seems snaps aren’t much liked in HN. Looks like they are here to stay).
rafaelturk 2y ago
I'm a Huge fan of Netplan, glad to see even more upstream improvements.
- kd913 2y ago
  What benefit does it offer over systemd-networkd?
  - mwpmaybe 2y ago
    It's a way to use systemd-networkd without having to write network and netdev unit files. You write YAML instead and it gets rendered to the aforementioned unit files. Some people will prefer that, and some people will hate that. :)
    - klysm 2y ago
      I don’t hate it, but I don’t see that much use in the extra layer of abstraction. The docs aren’t that great either
  - vetinari 2y ago
    It is an abstraction layer over systemd-networkd (server) and NetworkManager (desktop). It is a self-inflicted problem where a solution is another layer of abstraction. Red Hat ships NetworkManager on server too, so they have unified configuration without another layer.
lenerdenator 2y ago
Does Canonical push their changes upstream to Debian?
- ImJamal 2y ago
  Some of their changes are pushed upstream. Some are put upstream first and then trickle down to Ubuntu. Some remain Ubuntu only.
- 3v1n0 2y ago
  We do for good parts. For example, in the gnome team we do the uploads first to debian then we merge them with the Ubuntu changes if any, but we try as much as possible to use the same sources for both. Check debian salsa to see the differences.
mistrial9 2y ago
step 1 - remove snapd
- brnt 2y ago
  sudo apt install snapd- flatpak
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dist-epoch 2y ago
> TPM-backed full-disk encryption (FDE) is introduced as an experimental feature, building on years of experience with Ubuntu Core. On supported platforms, you no longer need to enter passphrases at boot manually. Instead, the TPM securely manages the decryption key, providing enhanced security against physical attacks. Shameful to see Ubuntu fall into the trap that Microsoft created, where you don't own your computer anymore and it actively prevents you from accessing your own data with DRM.
- theandrewbailey 2y ago
  Preventing access to data is the whole point of encryption. TPM stores the key to the drives attached to the machine, effectively tying the keys to the device + drive combination. (Doesn't Apple do the same?) And if you're afraid of being locked out, you have backups elsewhere, right?
  - rickydroll 2y ago
    And you didn't lose the notebook you keep your critical passwords in?
- jlokier 2y ago
  You've misunderstood. Ubuntu's TPM-backed full-disk encryption isn't DRM like the type used to prevent you from copying movies. It's meant to assist your own privacy and security, by prevent other people from accessing your own data. For example if your laptop is lost, stolen, left in a shop, seized by bailiffs, sent in for a repair, etc., or if it's a server in a data center, making it more difficult for someone to read the server's data without authorization.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
  Ugh. I suppose there’s always going to be a contingent that gets all up in arms as soon as computers at all depart from how they worked in 2004. You’re really trying to shoehorn some notion of user-hostility into what’s clearly and unambiguously a security feature.
incomingpain 2y ago
Joke: Did you know a ton of Ubuntu folks work at Home Depot? They like replacing windows.
- el_don_almighty 2y ago
  love this
SomeoneFromCA 2y ago
I dunno, still do not get the value of LTS Ubuntu, when Debian is almost exactly same in terms of user experience.
- apple4ever 2y ago
  For me, its seems it's both newer packages and easier to add third party apt repos for even newer packages. Also, I like running newer kernels with HWE.
  - SomeoneFromCA 2y ago
    No not really. Nowadays debian has pretty fresh packages. At least Debian 12 had most of it packages newer than 22.04.
- mardifoufs 2y ago
  Because it's not the same. Just look at the docker package for Debian for example. It's like 3 years out of date and has an unsupported version of docker compose.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    I use the docker.io and docker-compose packages in the stock Debian repository, and they seem to work perfectly fine? (Notably better than the Docker snap package that I tried to use, for that matter.)
    - mardifoufs 2y ago
      That's okay, but it's still 4 years old. And it uses docker compose v1, which isn't supported by upstream and receives no security updates since 2021. Docker has gotten a lot better imo since version 20.xx. buildx and buildkit are really nice now, and there's very little downside to having an up to date version (no important breaking changes, and improved rootless mode). Afaik the issue is related to some go packaging troubles or something. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1040417 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1040417 Fwiw, I have never had any issues with docker on Ubuntu. Even on azureml, where VMs are by default provisioned only with Ubuntu+docker, it just really works.
apple4ever 2y ago
Looks pretty good! This is interesting from the release notes: > Starting in Ubuntu 24.04, Canonical no longer produces Vagrant images. This is due upstream Debian questions of maintainership and Canonical dropping vagrant from the Ubuntu archives. Certainly will impact my workload.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
  I am still sad that vagrant never took off. Sure it had some rough edges that could have been smoothed over with more eyes, but it really feels like a better development path.
  - klysm 2y ago
    Containers are mostly better no?
    - solatic 2y ago
      Containers still need to run on some kind of VM. If you're a small shop and the VM is managed for you by the cloud provider - fair enough. But a lot of larger enterprises still run servers managed in-house that are based off a golden image that is pre-configured to include observability agents, security agents, stuff that reports to centralized inventory management, in-house certificate authorities, etc. If you're a developer who ships a container, and it's only exposed to the stuff in the in-house server once it gets to a staging/pre-production environment - then you're missing a big part of the actual production environment in your dev environment. Vagrant can be a good choice here, depending on how customized the production servers are. Then there are plenty of cases where cloud servers are insufficient and your actual production environment includes on-prem hardware with more specialized setups, then the VM vs. container argument gets more murky.
  - autra 2y ago
    I use vagrant quite a lot at work. This will impact me a lot :-/
kkfx 2y ago
Sorry but... At the Unity (WM) time Ubuntu was the distro able to satisfy both end users and techies, adopting Gnome SHell they already say "we are like others", than pushing CRAP like snap have completed the game. Back than Ubuntu have ceased to be interested for anyone with a bit of competence and have started to be annoying for generic users. NixOS today is not in an excellent shape, but is the go-to distro of any tech savvy, Arch have intercepted old-schools users locked in a far past, Guix System try to thrive, Ubuntu now is on par of classic RH in crappiness and commercial conduct.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
  Cripes. What bubble are you living in? Why are we still at a place where choosing a Linux distribution is like picking your lunch table at school?
  - kkfx 2y ago
    It's not a distro war. It's a paradigm. Ubuntu, Arch, Fedora, OpenSuse, ... are all classic distros meant to be manually handled, some are rolling, some are not, but they share the same '80s style way of work. Declarative distros offer: - stability - easy replication - easy upgrades - easy rollback Ubuntu in the past was interesting because Unity was a nice desktop environment for both a newcomer and a seasoned user, it does not interfere narcissistically with the user actions like Gnome SHell that to it's best to be at the center of anything or modern KDE. Unity was as minimal a Fluxbox while as nice and dice for users like a modern desktop environment. And was an Ubuntu only show. After that Ubuntu is just another classic distro, good for a distro war between the Debianist the RH-ist etc. It's another SuSe back than. With NOTHING special to offer, except that it annoy it's users with snap.
- doublepg23 2y ago
  the amount of users of snaps likely exceeds total NixOS deployments
  - kkfx 2y ago
    Seeing Repology stat on how many projects are in nixpkgs, how fresh they are, you are very largely wrong... Snaps/Flatpack have very few and mostly outdated packages. They are behind ANY other package system. NixOS is the largest set of packages and the most fresh. Arch and Guix follow short. The others are behind. Not only, try to see how many "default.nix" or "shell.nix" you'll find in FLOSS projects, like in the past the "debian" dir. and you'll surely have an Idea.
jdboyd 2y ago
So far, an update from 22.04 LTS to 24.04 LTS on an Intel based Dell Lattitude laptop without any weird hardware produced a failure that was a white screen that just said to contact a system administrator. Could be a fluke. Trying to rescue this produced a non-bootable system. Could be user error. After that a clean install of Ubuntu 24.04 LTS on the same machine worked, but after installing the latest Chrome on top of this, it won't start. After installing the latest Slack, that won't start either. BitWarden from the snap store will start, but after logging in, I get a endless spinner instead my vault contents. It is hard to believe that the Chrome/Slack/BitWarden issues are user error. I'm not sure I've ever seen such a rough LTS release. I still wonder if this is just somehow me since surely they wouldn't release it without Chrome and Slack working, but I can't see what I could have done wrong just following the directions here.
- smarx007 2y ago
  For Chrome, some apparmor policy relaxation would likely be needed: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39890#unprivileged-user-namespace-restrictions-15 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39...
  - zten 2y ago
    Having no snaps able to use DNS after upgrading thanks to AppArmor sure was a fun surprise
    - jdboyd 2y ago
      I wonder if that explains the BitWarden problem that I saw then.
- smarx007 2y ago
  22.04 LTS users are advised to wait until August for 24.04.1: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39890#support-lifespan-3 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39...
smarx007 2y ago
How is it not on the front page? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40154395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40154395 with 36 points over 10 hours is but this submission with 89 points over 4 hours isn't. The submitter seems to have plenty of karma too.
anothername12 2y ago
I know it’s a small thing, but does it put that ~/snap dir in my home directory still?
- 3v1n0 2y ago
  Yes
izoow 2y ago
I'm still torn about whether I want to stick with Ubuntu a little longer or move onto Debian/Fedora. I've been a happy Ubuntu user for a long time, but each package that gets converted to snap makes it harder for me to stay. I'm getting really tired of having to fight the distro and look for a bunch of my applications elsewhere to get a version that doesn't suck.
- jijijijij 2y ago
  Give Fedora a try! If you already know a bit about Linux configuration and are not afraid of the terminal, as it's a tiny bit more hands on and blank than Ubuntu. I switched about two years ago and it's the best Linux experience I've ever had and I do regret not trying sooner. No bloat at all. DNF is awesome. Flatpak > snap. The release cycle is a nice compromise. Really, I am in fucking love!
  - izoow 2y ago
    I did try it a couple times in the past, it just never quite felt like home. I don't know why, I couldn't give you an objective reason as to why I didn't like it. I probably should give it another try soon.
    - jijijijij 2y ago
      I guess, it's in a way boring and unexciting. Very in the middle of things. It's a "get things done" experience for me.
    - vdfs 2y ago
      Once a debian... Also we've seen what Red Hat/IBM did with CentOS, they might pull something similar to Fedora, It's unlikely which make it very appealing for IBM
      - logicprog 2y ago
        > they might pull something similar to Fedora I don't think they could actually do that. They provide funding for Fedora's infra, but they don't make up the majority of contributors, and if you read through the actual governence model (note that the higher up the group, the less power it seems to have — the Fedora Council or whatever basically only exists to solve disputes that bubble up from lower, entirely community run and elected, groups), while Red Hat does have some influence/positions, they have far, far less power than the community just by numbers and also by who controls various things, and everything is also done by consensus to boot, so Red Hat couldn't just unilaterally change how Fedora works. At best they could withdraw funding (making Fedora less well-tested) and their people on the governing bodies, but it wouldn't amount to much. And Fedora is upstream from Red Hat Linux and CentOS and provides them with an utterly massive amount of labor and testing they couldn't hope to achieve on their own that they get by virtue of it being FOSS, so it would be a pure harm to them to shut Fedora down or make it closed even if they could, whereas the story is very different with CentOS and RHEL.
lewq 2y ago
Does it work with ipu6 webcams yet?
cranberryturkey 2y ago
Gonna be 6 months before mongodb catches up
LegionMammal978 2y ago
> In combination with the apparmor package, the Ubuntu kernel now restricts the use of unprivileged user namespaces. This affects all programs on the system that are unprivileged and unconfined. A default AppArmor profile is provided that allows the use of user namespaces for unprivileged and unconfined applications but will deny the subsequent use of any capabilities within the user namespace. Welp, that kills any chance of namespaces being widely used by anyone outside the likes of Docker and systemd. I'd been using unprivileged mount namespaces as a way to create anonymous temporary directories, but I guess they just weren't so long for this world after all.
abrookewood 2y ago
I know that Canonical keep making some questionable decisions that (legitimately) upset people, but I'm still happy for all that Ubuntu has brought to the table. As an aside, I think that has to be the best Linux intro I've seen - very slick.
pjmlp 2y ago
Love the security improvements, including turning on bounds checking. https://canonical.com/blog/whats-new-in-security-for-ubuntu-24-04-lts https://canonical.com/blog/whats-new-in-security-for-ubuntu-...

180 points by jeswin 2y ago

Looks like a no-brainer if you're on the Ubuntu treadmill. Key differences versus the previous LTS version: * Distribution packages built with additional security-hardening features * Linux Kernel 6.8 * Gnome 46 * Updated utils and apps --- Users who train AI models on Ubuntu machines should wait until their ML stack (typically, Nvidia + PyTorch) is known to run without issues on 24.04. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40157645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40157645 --- Source: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39890 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39...

ryanisnan 2y ago
Asking genuinely, what causes Ubuntu to be more of a treadmill from say Debian?
- cs702 2y ago
  Sorry, I don't understand your question. By "treadmill" I mean sticking to a particular distro year after year, upgrading regularly -- it could be Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, CentOS, etc. Unless you're constantly switching distros, you're on a treadmill. I wasn't comparing Ubuntu to other distros.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
    "Treadmill" is usually used pejoratively, e.g. hedonistic treadmill.
    - cs702 2y ago
      Thanks. Yes, you're right, sometimes "treadmill" is used pejoratively to describe forced upgrades that otherwise would be unnecessary. I was referring to the fact that we are all voluntarily installing security updates and/or improved versions of the software we use, year after year.
      - halJordan 2y ago
        Fwiw i did not understand your original comment as pejorative, and thought it was a well done turn of phrase
        ahartmetz 2y ago
        FWIW, I did pick up the pejorative connotation at first, but then realized it probably wasn't intended that way due to the complete lack of other negativity in the post.
    - gloryjulio 2y ago
      It's hackernews. I would recognize that this is in a joking manner
  - ryanisnan 2y ago
    Oh I see. I interpreted your comment as if it were more of a treadmill than other distributions.
- jsheard 2y ago
  If you use the non-LTS versions of Ubuntu then you are expected to upgrade to each new version in short order, the previous version (23.10) is only supported until July.
  - ryanisnan 2y ago
    Django has the same problem. You either have to upgrade all the time, or you have to jump LTS to LTS, which is also not advised from Django's perspective.
    - cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
      There are so many ways in which the Django upgrade process could be worse, and IMO very few ways in which it could be better. Not really sure how this is a “problem”.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  I wish Debian was a treadmill with fixed release dates like Ubuntu has.
  - mort96 2y ago
    I mean it's not the same month every time, but it seems to be on a pretty stable 2 year cycle?
  - NewJazz 2y ago
    What benefit would that have? Even if new versions are not released on a fixed schedule, you don't have to upgrade immediately.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      Migration scheduling and planning for total software lifetime. Everything is just smoother on a fixed cadence.
      - NewJazz 2y ago
        You can do a fixed cadence even if Debian doesn't though. Just every year, upgrade to the new stable if it is available.
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        Yeah, but now you have your own problems instead of pain shared by millions of other users. A lot of orgs on the same cadence is a great and under-estimated thing. I'm just sayin'
        NewJazz 2y ago
        I don't get what you mean, actually. A lot of orgs upgrading simultaneously means that none of them have prior experience to look to. A staggered rollout of new software versions is often viewed as a less risky deployment method.
echelon 2y ago
> Looks like a no-brainer if you're on the Ubuntu treadmill. It'll take forever for ML packages to upgrade. The Python/ML/PyTorch ecosystem is slow to move.
- cs702 2y ago
  Good point! I'll edit my comment.
- Symmetry 2y ago
  I'll be trying to get PyTorch working on Docker with 24.04 and an AMD card. Lets see how that works out.
- gpjt 2y ago
  I've been running my ML stack on Arch for the last six months and haven't had any issues so far. So perhaps not a big issue on a more stable distro like Ubuntu.
meunal 2y ago
"Users who train AI models on Ubuntu machines should wait until their ML stack (typically, Nvidia + PyTorch) is known to run without issues on 24.04." NVIDIA + PyTorch user here. No issues at all (w/ 550.54.15).
- paulmd 2y ago
  I'm here for the upstreamed Arc GPU support, lol. I could probably have made it work with 22.04 with enough poking but I don't generally like upgrading major versions anyway. I was actually checking earlier but it hadn't released yet, lol. Probably jumping the gun anyway - it doesn't look like Arc has a release of the dev tooling for 24.04 yet anyway, no `noble` repo yet either. I figured at least I could get passthrough working to a 22.04 container, couldn't get the intel_iommu to behave, looks like it was still getting sucked up by the parent OS despite my GRUB kernel options. Might need to try HWE on the VM host too, or maybe it's just a fact of life based on how the outputs are wired up on my serpent canyon NUC (headless might work better, perhaps?). I'm actually fine if the ML stuff takes a bit, I kinda just want to play with GPGPU and I definitely want to play with the AV1 encoder. I ended up bumping into the same issue that stalled me out before, it happens in both 22.04 HWE and 24.04, the step about installing the out-of-kernel modules is busted. Installing the i915-dkms can't be done at the same time as the platform-vsec-dkms and platform-cse-dkms, apparently? But I pushed on it a little harder, and it seems like it works if you run two separate apt commands. I've got a couple of these weird environments, I need to set up a way to virtualize and passthrough them so I don't have to maintain actual machines for it. Not sure exactly what that looks like, maybe proxmox and some qemu machines in a pseudo-ESXi configuration or something. When I get around to getting the new disks in my NAS, I can also do iscsi/iPXE I guess (and I have optane for write cache).

lolinder 2y ago

It might be better to link directly to the release notes for more context: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39890 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39...

proxysna 2y ago

Nice, just hope that canonical will lay off with the snap push. Otherwise looks really nice, will roll it out on my home machine today. > Cloud images no longer preseed any snaps by default Yes! Small improvement, but still.

sevagh 2y ago
They'll shutter Snap and adopt Flatpak in ~3 years.
- selivanovp 2y ago
  No, unless flatpak will be able to do what snap does for Canonical for years.
  - tjoff 2y ago
    Drive users away?
    - curt15 2y ago
      What's driving users away is not snap but rather Canonical's heavy-handed way of foisting snap on users that would make Microsoft proud.
      - tjoff 2y ago
        ... which on its own is one of the better reasons to ditch a distro.
      - bigstrat2003 2y ago
        Yeah this is exactly it. I don't really give a damn about snaps. But when I use apt to install something, and the OS silently installs a snap version instead, that's not acceptable to me. I'm not going to ever use Ubuntu again where I have a choice, personally.

jakebasile 2y ago

Some of the other flavors/architectures are available now, too: - Kubuntu https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ - Xubuntu https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ - Lubuntu https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/24.04/release/ - Budgie https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-budgie/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-budgie/releases/24.04/rele... - MATE https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/releases/24.04/releas... - Cinnamon https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntucinnamon/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntucinnamon/releases/24.04/rel... - Unity https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-unity/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-unity/releases/24.04/relea... - Kylin https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntukylin/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntukylin/releases/24.04/releas... - Alternate "Ubuntu" Builds https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/24.04/release/

haunter 2y ago
The "new", reforged, Unity spin is very underrated. It's actually a very nice DE, wish Ubuntu never abandoned it https://unityd.org/ https://unityd.org/
- riidom 2y ago
  That's slightly confusing, it is not this, right? https://ubuntuunity.org/posts/ubuntu-unity-2404-released/ https://ubuntuunity.org/posts/ubuntu-unity-2404-released/
  - mminer237 2y ago
    That is a flavor of Ubuntu with Unity as its DE. unityd.org is the website of the DE itself.
snvzz 2y ago
>Alternate "Ubuntu" Builds https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/24.04/release/ https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/24.04/release/ Including RISC-V, and ready to use images for many boards such as VisionFive 2.

throwaway77384 2y ago

[flagged]

lifeinthevoid 2y ago
Let me get this straight, you're on a version released 6 years ago and complaining it's not supported anymore?
rafaelturk 2y ago
?. This comment makes no sense, why can't you upgrade Ubuntu? You don't have access to root?
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
Why are you stuck? Ubuntu supports updating over major versions.
mort96 2y ago
Which other distro still supports a release from 2018 without paying for support?
- jhasse 2y ago
  Rocky Linux / AlmaLinux (or CentOS before them) offer 10 years of support and they are free.
lolinder 2y ago
https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/how-to-upgrade-your-release https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/how-to-upgrade-your-release
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  Purely anecdata, but I've lost count just how many Ubuntus (more accurately Debian and derivatives, I guess?) I've murdered in cold blood with sudo apt update and sudo apt upgrade.

aborsy 2y ago

Is it immutable, as Fedora? The new installer looks nice!

jug 2y ago
No, this release is not immutable like Fedora Silverblue. Ubuntu Core Desktop is planned to be, and was planned to be launched with this, but it was pushed back: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/02/ubuntu-core-desktop-delayed https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/02/ubuntu-core-desktop-dela...
- aborsy 2y ago
  So it will be similar to ChromeOS and Fedora. Full sandboxing, secure boot rooted in hardware, immutable. Frankly, it’s a good transition (even though it seems snaps aren’t much liked in HN. Looks like they are here to stay).

rafaelturk 2y ago

I'm a Huge fan of Netplan, glad to see even more upstream improvements.

kd913 2y ago
What benefit does it offer over systemd-networkd?
- mwpmaybe 2y ago
  It's a way to use systemd-networkd without having to write network and netdev unit files. You write YAML instead and it gets rendered to the aforementioned unit files. Some people will prefer that, and some people will hate that. :)
  - klysm 2y ago
    I don’t hate it, but I don’t see that much use in the extra layer of abstraction. The docs aren’t that great either
- vetinari 2y ago
  It is an abstraction layer over systemd-networkd (server) and NetworkManager (desktop). It is a self-inflicted problem where a solution is another layer of abstraction. Red Hat ships NetworkManager on server too, so they have unified configuration without another layer.

lenerdenator 2y ago

Does Canonical push their changes upstream to Debian?

ImJamal 2y ago
Some of their changes are pushed upstream. Some are put upstream first and then trickle down to Ubuntu. Some remain Ubuntu only.
3v1n0 2y ago
We do for good parts. For example, in the gnome team we do the uploads first to debian then we merge them with the Ubuntu changes if any, but we try as much as possible to use the same sources for both. Check debian salsa to see the differences.

mistrial9 2y ago

step 1 - remove snapd

brnt 2y ago
sudo apt install snapd- flatpak

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dist-epoch 2y ago

> TPM-backed full-disk encryption (FDE) is introduced as an experimental feature, building on years of experience with Ubuntu Core. On supported platforms, you no longer need to enter passphrases at boot manually. Instead, the TPM securely manages the decryption key, providing enhanced security against physical attacks. Shameful to see Ubuntu fall into the trap that Microsoft created, where you don't own your computer anymore and it actively prevents you from accessing your own data with DRM.

theandrewbailey 2y ago
Preventing access to data is the whole point of encryption. TPM stores the key to the drives attached to the machine, effectively tying the keys to the device + drive combination. (Doesn't Apple do the same?) And if you're afraid of being locked out, you have backups elsewhere, right?
- rickydroll 2y ago
  And you didn't lose the notebook you keep your critical passwords in?
jlokier 2y ago
You've misunderstood. Ubuntu's TPM-backed full-disk encryption isn't DRM like the type used to prevent you from copying movies. It's meant to assist your own privacy and security, by prevent other people from accessing your own data. For example if your laptop is lost, stolen, left in a shop, seized by bailiffs, sent in for a repair, etc., or if it's a server in a data center, making it more difficult for someone to read the server's data without authorization.
cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
Ugh. I suppose there’s always going to be a contingent that gets all up in arms as soon as computers at all depart from how they worked in 2004. You’re really trying to shoehorn some notion of user-hostility into what’s clearly and unambiguously a security feature.

incomingpain 2y ago

Joke: Did you know a ton of Ubuntu folks work at Home Depot? They like replacing windows.

el_don_almighty 2y ago
love this

SomeoneFromCA 2y ago

I dunno, still do not get the value of LTS Ubuntu, when Debian is almost exactly same in terms of user experience.

apple4ever 2y ago
For me, its seems it's both newer packages and easier to add third party apt repos for even newer packages. Also, I like running newer kernels with HWE.
- SomeoneFromCA 2y ago
  No not really. Nowadays debian has pretty fresh packages. At least Debian 12 had most of it packages newer than 22.04.
mardifoufs 2y ago
Because it's not the same. Just look at the docker package for Debian for example. It's like 3 years out of date and has an unsupported version of docker compose.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  I use the docker.io and docker-compose packages in the stock Debian repository, and they seem to work perfectly fine? (Notably better than the Docker snap package that I tried to use, for that matter.)
  - mardifoufs 2y ago
    That's okay, but it's still 4 years old. And it uses docker compose v1, which isn't supported by upstream and receives no security updates since 2021. Docker has gotten a lot better imo since version 20.xx. buildx and buildkit are really nice now, and there's very little downside to having an up to date version (no important breaking changes, and improved rootless mode). Afaik the issue is related to some go packaging troubles or something. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1040417 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1040417 Fwiw, I have never had any issues with docker on Ubuntu. Even on azureml, where VMs are by default provisioned only with Ubuntu+docker, it just really works.

apple4ever 2y ago

Looks pretty good! This is interesting from the release notes: > Starting in Ubuntu 24.04, Canonical no longer produces Vagrant images. This is due upstream Debian questions of maintainership and Canonical dropping vagrant from the Ubuntu archives. Certainly will impact my workload.

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
I am still sad that vagrant never took off. Sure it had some rough edges that could have been smoothed over with more eyes, but it really feels like a better development path.
- klysm 2y ago
  Containers are mostly better no?
  - solatic 2y ago
    Containers still need to run on some kind of VM. If you're a small shop and the VM is managed for you by the cloud provider - fair enough. But a lot of larger enterprises still run servers managed in-house that are based off a golden image that is pre-configured to include observability agents, security agents, stuff that reports to centralized inventory management, in-house certificate authorities, etc. If you're a developer who ships a container, and it's only exposed to the stuff in the in-house server once it gets to a staging/pre-production environment - then you're missing a big part of the actual production environment in your dev environment. Vagrant can be a good choice here, depending on how customized the production servers are. Then there are plenty of cases where cloud servers are insufficient and your actual production environment includes on-prem hardware with more specialized setups, then the VM vs. container argument gets more murky.
- autra 2y ago
  I use vagrant quite a lot at work. This will impact me a lot :-/

kkfx 2y ago

Sorry but... At the Unity (WM) time Ubuntu was the distro able to satisfy both end users and techies, adopting Gnome SHell they already say "we are like others", than pushing CRAP like snap have completed the game. Back than Ubuntu have ceased to be interested for anyone with a bit of competence and have started to be annoying for generic users. NixOS today is not in an excellent shape, but is the go-to distro of any tech savvy, Arch have intercepted old-schools users locked in a far past, Guix System try to thrive, Ubuntu now is on par of classic RH in crappiness and commercial conduct.

cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
Cripes. What bubble are you living in? Why are we still at a place where choosing a Linux distribution is like picking your lunch table at school?
- kkfx 2y ago
  It's not a distro war. It's a paradigm. Ubuntu, Arch, Fedora, OpenSuse, ... are all classic distros meant to be manually handled, some are rolling, some are not, but they share the same '80s style way of work. Declarative distros offer: - stability - easy replication - easy upgrades - easy rollback Ubuntu in the past was interesting because Unity was a nice desktop environment for both a newcomer and a seasoned user, it does not interfere narcissistically with the user actions like Gnome SHell that to it's best to be at the center of anything or modern KDE. Unity was as minimal a Fluxbox while as nice and dice for users like a modern desktop environment. And was an Ubuntu only show. After that Ubuntu is just another classic distro, good for a distro war between the Debianist the RH-ist etc. It's another SuSe back than. With NOTHING special to offer, except that it annoy it's users with snap.
doublepg23 2y ago
the amount of users of snaps likely exceeds total NixOS deployments
- kkfx 2y ago
  Seeing Repology stat on how many projects are in nixpkgs, how fresh they are, you are very largely wrong... Snaps/Flatpack have very few and mostly outdated packages. They are behind ANY other package system. NixOS is the largest set of packages and the most fresh. Arch and Guix follow short. The others are behind. Not only, try to see how many "default.nix" or "shell.nix" you'll find in FLOSS projects, like in the past the "debian" dir. and you'll surely have an Idea.

jdboyd 2y ago

So far, an update from 22.04 LTS to 24.04 LTS on an Intel based Dell Lattitude laptop without any weird hardware produced a failure that was a white screen that just said to contact a system administrator. Could be a fluke. Trying to rescue this produced a non-bootable system. Could be user error. After that a clean install of Ubuntu 24.04 LTS on the same machine worked, but after installing the latest Chrome on top of this, it won't start. After installing the latest Slack, that won't start either. BitWarden from the snap store will start, but after logging in, I get a endless spinner instead my vault contents. It is hard to believe that the Chrome/Slack/BitWarden issues are user error. I'm not sure I've ever seen such a rough LTS release. I still wonder if this is just somehow me since surely they wouldn't release it without Chrome and Slack working, but I can't see what I could have done wrong just following the directions here.

smarx007 2y ago
For Chrome, some apparmor policy relaxation would likely be needed: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39890#unprivileged-user-namespace-restrictions-15 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39...
- zten 2y ago
  Having no snaps able to use DNS after upgrading thanks to AppArmor sure was a fun surprise
  - jdboyd 2y ago
    I wonder if that explains the BitWarden problem that I saw then.
smarx007 2y ago
22.04 LTS users are advised to wait until August for 24.04.1: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39890#support-lifespan-3 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-release-notes/39...

smarx007 2y ago

How is it not on the front page? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40154395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40154395 with 36 points over 10 hours is but this submission with 89 points over 4 hours isn't. The submitter seems to have plenty of karma too.

anothername12 2y ago

I know it’s a small thing, but does it put that ~/snap dir in my home directory still?

3v1n0 2y ago
Yes

izoow 2y ago

I'm still torn about whether I want to stick with Ubuntu a little longer or move onto Debian/Fedora. I've been a happy Ubuntu user for a long time, but each package that gets converted to snap makes it harder for me to stay. I'm getting really tired of having to fight the distro and look for a bunch of my applications elsewhere to get a version that doesn't suck.

jijijijij 2y ago
Give Fedora a try! If you already know a bit about Linux configuration and are not afraid of the terminal, as it's a tiny bit more hands on and blank than Ubuntu. I switched about two years ago and it's the best Linux experience I've ever had and I do regret not trying sooner. No bloat at all. DNF is awesome. Flatpak > snap. The release cycle is a nice compromise. Really, I am in fucking love!
- izoow 2y ago
  I did try it a couple times in the past, it just never quite felt like home. I don't know why, I couldn't give you an objective reason as to why I didn't like it. I probably should give it another try soon.
  - jijijijij 2y ago
    I guess, it's in a way boring and unexciting. Very in the middle of things. It's a "get things done" experience for me.
  - vdfs 2y ago
    Once a debian... Also we've seen what Red Hat/IBM did with CentOS, they might pull something similar to Fedora, It's unlikely which make it very appealing for IBM
    - logicprog 2y ago
      > they might pull something similar to Fedora I don't think they could actually do that. They provide funding for Fedora's infra, but they don't make up the majority of contributors, and if you read through the actual governence model (note that the higher up the group, the less power it seems to have — the Fedora Council or whatever basically only exists to solve disputes that bubble up from lower, entirely community run and elected, groups), while Red Hat does have some influence/positions, they have far, far less power than the community just by numbers and also by who controls various things, and everything is also done by consensus to boot, so Red Hat couldn't just unilaterally change how Fedora works. At best they could withdraw funding (making Fedora less well-tested) and their people on the governing bodies, but it wouldn't amount to much. And Fedora is upstream from Red Hat Linux and CentOS and provides them with an utterly massive amount of labor and testing they couldn't hope to achieve on their own that they get by virtue of it being FOSS, so it would be a pure harm to them to shut Fedora down or make it closed even if they could, whereas the story is very different with CentOS and RHEL.

lewq 2y ago

Does it work with ipu6 webcams yet?

cranberryturkey 2y ago

Gonna be 6 months before mongodb catches up

LegionMammal978 2y ago

> In combination with the apparmor package, the Ubuntu kernel now restricts the use of unprivileged user namespaces. This affects all programs on the system that are unprivileged and unconfined. A default AppArmor profile is provided that allows the use of user namespaces for unprivileged and unconfined applications but will deny the subsequent use of any capabilities within the user namespace. Welp, that kills any chance of namespaces being widely used by anyone outside the likes of Docker and systemd. I'd been using unprivileged mount namespaces as a way to create anonymous temporary directories, but I guess they just weren't so long for this world after all.

abrookewood 2y ago

I know that Canonical keep making some questionable decisions that (legitimately) upset people, but I'm still happy for all that Ubuntu has brought to the table. As an aside, I think that has to be the best Linux intro I've seen - very slick.

pjmlp 2y ago

Love the security improvements, including turning on bounds checking. https://canonical.com/blog/whats-new-in-security-for-ubuntu-24-04-lts https://canonical.com/blog/whats-new-in-security-for-ubuntu-...