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They do, but they’ll never tell you that. You have to know. The only thing I saw in this article that I don’t like is that they can still issue vouchers. And I

• codazoda 3y ago
  Requiring cash is there in the article, at least now it is. > The refunds must be issued within seven days, according to the new DOT rules, and must be in cash unless the passenger chooses another form of compensation. Airlines can no longer issue refunds in forms of vouchers or credits when consumers are entitled to receive cash.
  • MBCook 3y ago
    > unless the passenger chooses another form of compensation This is the bit. How much you wanna bet they’ll find ways to use this to screw people?
    • onion2k 3y ago
      "We can issue you a refund for the cash value, but the system takes 3 years to pay out. You can have a voucher right now though."
      • eszed 3y ago
        "The refunds must be issued within seven days", so (while I wouldn't put it past them to try) telling passengers something so manifestly untrue would be grounds for a lawsuit, which should make them stop.
    • mrandish 3y ago
      Since they now have to automatically offer a cash refund, any alternative voucher offered will have to be substantially higher value to the customer to get any takers. Sure, it's possible some grandma who almost never flies anywhere may still get confused but this new rule is still going to put even that kind of person in a far better position.
      • lupire 3y ago
        [flagged]
        • WrongAssumption 3y ago
          Grandmas can be quite young, how dare you.
• marcinzm 3y ago
  I don't see vouchers mentioned in the article and the official post is pretty clear that refunds must be in the original form of payment. And automatic. https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-announces-final-rule-requiring-automatic-refunds-airline https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-ad...
• thfuran 3y ago
  They do the same sort of thing soliciting volunteers to be bumped from a flight for less in vouchers than they'd be entitled to had they been involuntarily removed.
  • PNewling 3y ago
    But for that scenario you normally still get booked on a later flight plus the vouchers, as measly as the value of those might be.
    • noirbot 3y ago
      I dunno, most of the time, the offered vouchers have been more than the cost of the flight by a good amount. I haven't had an offer in a while, but the last few times were often starting at around 2x the price I'd paid for the flight for a 2-3 hour delay. I've never seen it be less than $200.
  • sokoloff 3y ago
    Which seems fair enough to me. If someone is flexible and wants to accept the airline’s offer, it’s fine for the airline and them to reach a voluntary agreement.
  • schrodinger 3y ago
    I don't see a problem with that (unless the voucher has ridiculous terms) because it allows someone who doesn't mind being bumped to voluntarily accept it rather than going straight to the "you've been chosen, here's the legally mandated payment." I've made out quite well on United. I had 2 flights back from London to NY where I accepted a 3 hour delay (with lounge access) and made a total over of $2500 in vouchers. The terms were generous too—a year to use them (extended by a year because it was around the pandemic), and you could partially use them, it just added to a "voucher balance" you could draw from.
    • thfuran 3y ago
      >I've made out quite well on United No, you made out poorly. Wouldn't you prefer to have been paid more? >The terms were generous too—a year to use them Are you for real? That's not generous.
• jessriedel 3y ago
  > They do, but they’ll never tell you that. You have to know. I think this is not true
  • mulmen 3y ago
    It used to be but this new rule changed that.
    • jessriedel 3y ago
      I don't think it was true in the past either, unless this is coming down to some subtlety for what counts as a "substantial change" vs "cancelation". But happy to be wrong. I'd like to see a clear and authoritative explanation of what changed, but I haven't seen a link to one in this thread yet.
• pishpash 3y ago
  They do tell you. What's missing is compensation for waiting or making new arrangements last minute (which is not cheap) unless it's 3 hours delayed. So airlines will drag it out putting fake new flight time up by incrementing 10 minutes at a time, hoping you'll rebook because you don't want to wait out their 3 hours just to find out it's cancelled anyway.
• soneil 3y ago
  They can offer vouchers but you're entitled to the refund. The problem in that past has been that they weren't obligated to inform you of that right. Hopefully now that the refund entitlement is automatic, vouchers will only make sense if they can beat the cash offer.
  • mhdhn 3y ago
    So they left you believing take the voucher or get nothing?
    • rqtwteye 3y ago
      Correct.
    • helpfulclippy 3y ago
      And they'd act like you were imagining things if you said otherwise. It was like: - (email) Delta: Your flight has been cancelled, and we are unable to rebook you onto another at this time. We're sorry for the inconvenience. Here is a voucher for a travel credit within the next year. - (phone call) Me: Hi, I got this e-mail. I would like a refund for the flight. - Delta: Oh, well, right now we're offering a travel voucher. - Me: I saw that. I don't want a voucher. I paid for a flight, and that flight didn't happen, so now I want my money back. - Delta: Well, that's not our policy. - Me: Actually, I'm reading your current contract of carriage for domestic flights right now, and it says that you DO give refunds for cancellations upon request. And that makes sense, because I'm also looking at the federal regulations, which say that you are required to do that. So it is definitely your policy to offer refunds upon request. And I'm requesting. - Delta: Oh. Well. I can put in a ticket, and we'll see what happens, but I can't guarantee anything... and then a little while later I got a notice saying my refund was approved. It was a ridiculous runaround that never should have been allowed in the first place.
      • rqtwteye 3y ago
        Seems more and more companies are learning how to do customer service from US health insurance. Make people wait, give wrong information and hope they will just go away.
• jibe 3y ago
  Still, this is great. Everyone is going now pay the full, refundable fare rate, so not great if you want cheap tickets.
• mulmen 3y ago
  > How about: you must issue cash refunds PERIOD. No voucher nonsense. From https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-announces-final-rule-requiring-automatic-refunds-airline https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-ad... (linked in TFA): The final rule improves the passenger experience by requiring refunds to be: Automatic: Airlines must automatically issue refunds without passengers having to explicitly request them or jump through hoops. Prompt: Airlines and ticket agents must issue refunds within seven business days of refunds becoming due for credit card purchases and 20 calendar days for other payment methods. Cash or original form of payment: Airlines and ticket agents must provide refunds in cash or whatever original payment method the individual used to make the purchase, such as credit card or airline miles. Airlines may not substitute vouchers, travel credits, or other forms of compensation unless the passenger affirmatively chooses to accept alternative compensation. Full amount: Airlines and ticket agents must provide full refunds of the ticket purchase price, minus the value of any portion of transportation already used. The refunds must include all government-imposed taxes and fees and airline-imposed fees, regardless of whether the taxes or fees are refundable to airlines.
  • judge2020 3y ago
    I wonder how the taxes and fees refund works. Fees I can see airlines trying to say “we already paid these”, but taxes are only charged on services rendered, no? Is there a situation where the airlines have already paid sales tax to the local authority and don’t get a refund for canceled service?
    • praseodym 3y ago
      There are also government-imposed taxes such as the U.S. Transportation Security Administration instituted Passenger Fee, which is charged as soon as the ticket is bought: > "The fee is collected by air carriers from passengers at the time air transportation is purchased," according to TSA. "Air carriers then remit the fees to TSA." (From https://thepointsguy.com/guide/taxes-and-fees-airline-award-tickets/ https://thepointsguy.com/guide/taxes-and-fees-airline-award-...)
• adonovan 3y ago
  I once arrived in Paris on the overnight train from Milan, which had been delayed for a couple of hours en route (allowing us to sleep more!). On the platform in Paris, staff were busily and proactively handing out claim forms to disembarking passengers, explaining that they had the right to a refund for the delay. If only that were the law in the US.
• tossandthrow 3y ago
  > They do, but they’ll never tell you that. You have to know. This is where I love the EU legislation. A part of having a flight delayed or cancelled is that the airline needs to inform you about your rights.
  • wheels 3y ago
    The European legislation is also something of a joke. Most of the time the airlines just ignore them unless you sue. I recently won a case against American Airlines for a canceled flight, but it took two years, and lawyers ate half of the money. Just a couple weeks ago KLM canceled my flight and bumped me to Delta, who also canceled my flight, but then washed themselves of liability because Delta isn't an EU carrier (and the flight originated outside of the EU).
    • terinjokes 3y ago
      Why would you file against Delta if you booked with KLM?
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      • wheels 3y ago
        Because the law says that you have to pursue the claim with the flight operator.
    • tossandthrow 3y ago
      yes, so you are pointing out some very fundamental properties of a justice state. no law will ever fix this. obviously you need to have things tried. However, you can pay with a credit card and document the blatant rule breaking to them. They will refund you and bear legal risks. and unless you are in the wrong, the airline won't do. more about it. I had a case with SAS some years ago, where mastercard simply refunded me. that was it.
      • 3y ago
• MVissers 3y ago
  In Europe they have to refund your ticket plus compensate you in cash depending on delay and distance. Not sure if this will change much in the USA, refunding is not that high of a cost either for airlines.
  • jermaustin1 3y ago
    Really only works if you live there though. As an American in Europe traveling, they offered me lots of localized forms that only accepted local addresses and banking information for the reimbursements. Same thing with the trains in the UK. We were delayed 3 hours, and our train was overbooked. I went into the LNER (or Virgin - can't remember when it happened) ticketing office in Kings Cross, and the guy at the counter basically told me that I could fill out the form, but if I didn't have a UK bank account they have no method of dispersing funds. So then I went to a UK bank and was told I couldn't open a bank account without a UK address. So I opened an account with TransferWise (now Wise), and was given a UK bank account through them, but after filling out the form, I never got any reimbursement. So I'm guessing I didn't qualify for some other reason.