7 ms·

As someone who knows somebody that recently had a flight cancelled (then booked another flight at the same airport, only for that flight to get cancelled as wel

As someone who knows somebody that recently had a flight cancelled (then booked another flight at the same airport, only for that flight to get cancelled as well), it was very frustrating to hear that all the airlines in question would do is issue a voucher that expires in 3 months and requires the exact same people to travel alongside you (i.e. if you purchased a ticket for yourself and a relative, then the voucher only applies to flights where you and this exact same relative are boarding). It seems like a pretty blatant way for airlines to keep customer's money. Too bad this rule didn't come sooner.

jessriedel 2y ago
Pretty sure US airlines have had to give you refund for canceled flights for years. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/money-flight-canceled https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/money-flight-cance... > To be clear, passengers flying in the U.S. are already entitled to refunds when a flight is canceled or significantly delayed. No matter the cause — weather-related or not — airlines must pay passengers back for the unused portion of their ticket if the passenger ultimately chooses not to fly. It’s worth noting that the DOT does not define what constitutes a “significant delay.” https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/do-airlines-owe-you-money-for-delays-or-cancellations https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/do-airlines-owe-yo...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- MBCook 2y ago
  They do, but they’ll never tell you that. You have to know. The only thing I saw in this article that I don’t like is that they can still issue vouchers. And I didn’t see anything that said the vouchers had to be for more than the cash payment. So I’m guessing if you miss your flight and are entitled to $300 (to pick an amount) they’ll be very happy to instantly give everyone a voucher for $100 off. Thus saving $200/head unless people know their rights. How about: you must issue cash refunds PERIOD. No voucher nonsense. Still, this is great.
  - codazoda 2y ago
    Requiring cash is there in the article, at least now it is. > The refunds must be issued within seven days, according to the new DOT rules, and must be in cash unless the passenger chooses another form of compensation. Airlines can no longer issue refunds in forms of vouchers or credits when consumers are entitled to receive cash.
    - MBCook 2y ago
      > unless the passenger chooses another form of compensation This is the bit. How much you wanna bet they’ll find ways to use this to screw people?
      - onion2k 2y ago
        "We can issue you a refund for the cash value, but the system takes 3 years to pay out. You can have a voucher right now though."
        eszed 2y ago
        "The refunds must be issued within seven days", so (while I wouldn't put it past them to try) telling passengers something so manifestly untrue would be grounds for a lawsuit, which should make them stop.
      - mrandish 2y ago
        Since they now have to automatically offer a cash refund, any alternative voucher offered will have to be substantially higher value to the customer to get any takers. Sure, it's possible some grandma who almost never flies anywhere may still get confused but this new rule is still going to put even that kind of person in a far better position.
        lupire 2y ago
        [flagged]
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Same in Europe. There's standard amounts.
- caseyy 2y ago
  Same in the EU - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Passengers_Rights_Regulation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Passengers_Rights_Regula... Although air carriers can offer passengers alternative compensation if the passenger chooses to accept it. For example, vouchers or a lower sum of money and no accommodation. Sometimes they present it as the only option to mislead the passenger. If challenged in court on refusing to pay out, air carriers sometimes claim extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided. This is an exception in the law. But it is for really force majeure events, like real disasters. Meanwhile, airlines often claim that something like the airplane breaking down or an employee calling in sick is extraordinary circumstances. This falls squarely within ordinary day-to-day operations of an airline. So it doesn’t fly in court, but it’s used more as an intimidating tactic to show to the plaintiff that their lawsuit would supposedly fail and to force awful settlement terms. Lots to be said about airlines trying to weasel out but it generally doesn’t work. Unless the passenger signs that they accept alternative compensation. I know the law doesn’t seem to allow that, but the phrasing is specific enough that it falls within the law.
- eastbound 2y ago
  In Europe, I’ve always had my parking, taxi, restaurant and hotel reimbursed by the airline in case of delays (such as: bad weather or strike -> we’ll board tomorrow morning -> full reimbursement of all implied expenses). I thought this was IATA regulations. US travelers are really getting the hard stick herr.
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    Also in Europe (Frankfurt), when I had missed my flight because the (German) express train had been delayed by more than one hour, the airline sent me to a hotel with all expenses paid by them, including breakfast, until the next morning when I could take another of their flights towards the same destination, though via another route (obviously all being covered by my original payment).
    - rft 2y ago
      Just a word of caution for anyone booking their own train connection, this is usually only done if you book train and flight on the same ticket. The DB calls this Rail&Fly and essentially the train becomes a leg of the flight. So if/when the DB screws up, your "flight" is delayed and treated just like a delayed plane. https://www.bahn.de/service/informationen-buchung/bahn-flug/rail-and-fly-english https://www.bahn.de/service/informationen-buchung/bahn-flug/...
      - adrian_b 2y ago
        I suppose that it may depend on the airline how they handle such cases. I do not remember which I had used then, but it might have been Lufthansa. In my case I had bought the train tickets separately from DB (online) and the flight tickets directly from the airline (also online). At the airport I have just shown the train tickets and it would have been easy to verify that indeed it had arrived with a huge delay, so it was not my fault.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  According to some random internet stories that may or may not be true, canceled flights due to a delay that resulted in the destination airport CLOSING before they would have landed, is one such situation that is/was not considerable as a refund.
- sunnybeetroot 2y ago
  You are correct, it’s mentioned in the article: > Buttigieg reiterated that refund requirements are already the standard for airlines, but the new DOT rules hold the airlines to account and makes sure passengers get the "refunds that are owed to them."
- rco8786 2y ago
  You have to know that, and you have to fight through their customer "service" desk/phone portal to get it. Most people just give up or take the first thing offered to them.
- wildzzz 2y ago
  When WOW Air closed down, they refunded European tickets but not Americans. We ended up doing a charge back with our credit card. I was a little pissed at first but ended up getting a cheaper flight to a better starting point for our trip to Europe through Air Italy (which coincidentally closed down a year later).
al_borland 2y ago
I had a flight cancelled due to COVID in 2020. I was given a voucher, which sat unused. They extended the expiration on it a couple times, due to the pandemic dragging on. Eventually, out of nowhere, after 2+ years of sitting on the voucher, I was issued a refund. I was glad to get the refund, but when talking about a multiyear timeframe, I feel like I should get my money back with interest.
- mcny 2y ago
  How did you get your money back? I didn’t get a refund from delta at all…
  - al_borland 2y ago
    If I remember correctly, they refunded it to the card I purchased the flight on. This was through British Airways.
- lupire 2y ago
  In the context of the pandemic, being a little forgiving is reasonable.
- Yeul 2y ago
  COVID was such a cluster fuck that it could have bankrupted airliners. Under normal circumstances they can afford to refund their passengers. Companies need to have an incentive to provide a good service.
- rqtwteye 2y ago
  Alaska gave me a 12 month voucher that expired because I had no need to fly with them. I asked about extending it or a cash refund but they refused.
- greenie_beans 2y ago
  i'm still trying to get mine...
alsetmusic 2y ago
I missed a flight and rebooked for later on the same day. My return flight was still cancelled because how could they know I maintained the trip. There’s no way for them to be unaware that I bought a new one-way ticket. They were just predatory about it.

jessriedel 2y ago

Pretty sure US airlines have had to give you refund for canceled flights for years. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/money-flight-canceled https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/money-flight-cance... > To be clear, passengers flying in the U.S. are already entitled to refunds when a flight is canceled or significantly delayed. No matter the cause — weather-related or not — airlines must pay passengers back for the unused portion of their ticket if the passenger ultimately chooses not to fly. It’s worth noting that the DOT does not define what constitutes a “significant delay.” https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/do-airlines-owe-you-money-for-delays-or-cancellations https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/do-airlines-owe-yo...

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
MBCook 2y ago
They do, but they’ll never tell you that. You have to know. The only thing I saw in this article that I don’t like is that they can still issue vouchers. And I didn’t see anything that said the vouchers had to be for more than the cash payment. So I’m guessing if you miss your flight and are entitled to $300 (to pick an amount) they’ll be very happy to instantly give everyone a voucher for $100 off. Thus saving $200/head unless people know their rights. How about: you must issue cash refunds PERIOD. No voucher nonsense. Still, this is great.
- codazoda 2y ago
  Requiring cash is there in the article, at least now it is. > The refunds must be issued within seven days, according to the new DOT rules, and must be in cash unless the passenger chooses another form of compensation. Airlines can no longer issue refunds in forms of vouchers or credits when consumers are entitled to receive cash.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    > unless the passenger chooses another form of compensation This is the bit. How much you wanna bet they’ll find ways to use this to screw people?
    - onion2k 2y ago
      "We can issue you a refund for the cash value, but the system takes 3 years to pay out. You can have a voucher right now though."
      - eszed 2y ago
        "The refunds must be issued within seven days", so (while I wouldn't put it past them to try) telling passengers something so manifestly untrue would be grounds for a lawsuit, which should make them stop.
    - mrandish 2y ago
      Since they now have to automatically offer a cash refund, any alternative voucher offered will have to be substantially higher value to the customer to get any takers. Sure, it's possible some grandma who almost never flies anywhere may still get confused but this new rule is still going to put even that kind of person in a far better position.
      - lupire 2y ago
        [flagged]
wkat4242 2y ago
Same in Europe. There's standard amounts.
caseyy 2y ago
Same in the EU - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Passengers_Rights_Regulation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Passengers_Rights_Regula... Although air carriers can offer passengers alternative compensation if the passenger chooses to accept it. For example, vouchers or a lower sum of money and no accommodation. Sometimes they present it as the only option to mislead the passenger. If challenged in court on refusing to pay out, air carriers sometimes claim extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided. This is an exception in the law. But it is for really force majeure events, like real disasters. Meanwhile, airlines often claim that something like the airplane breaking down or an employee calling in sick is extraordinary circumstances. This falls squarely within ordinary day-to-day operations of an airline. So it doesn’t fly in court, but it’s used more as an intimidating tactic to show to the plaintiff that their lawsuit would supposedly fail and to force awful settlement terms. Lots to be said about airlines trying to weasel out but it generally doesn’t work. Unless the passenger signs that they accept alternative compensation. I know the law doesn’t seem to allow that, but the phrasing is specific enough that it falls within the law.
eastbound 2y ago
In Europe, I’ve always had my parking, taxi, restaurant and hotel reimbursed by the airline in case of delays (such as: bad weather or strike -> we’ll board tomorrow morning -> full reimbursement of all implied expenses). I thought this was IATA regulations. US travelers are really getting the hard stick herr.
- adrian_b 2y ago
  Also in Europe (Frankfurt), when I had missed my flight because the (German) express train had been delayed by more than one hour, the airline sent me to a hotel with all expenses paid by them, including breakfast, until the next morning when I could take another of their flights towards the same destination, though via another route (obviously all being covered by my original payment).
  - rft 2y ago
    Just a word of caution for anyone booking their own train connection, this is usually only done if you book train and flight on the same ticket. The DB calls this Rail&Fly and essentially the train becomes a leg of the flight. So if/when the DB screws up, your "flight" is delayed and treated just like a delayed plane. https://www.bahn.de/service/informationen-buchung/bahn-flug/rail-and-fly-english https://www.bahn.de/service/informationen-buchung/bahn-flug/...
    - adrian_b 2y ago
      I suppose that it may depend on the airline how they handle such cases. I do not remember which I had used then, but it might have been Lufthansa. In my case I had bought the train tickets separately from DB (online) and the flight tickets directly from the airline (also online). At the airport I have just shown the train tickets and it would have been easy to verify that indeed it had arrived with a huge delay, so it was not my fault.
ranger_danger 2y ago
According to some random internet stories that may or may not be true, canceled flights due to a delay that resulted in the destination airport CLOSING before they would have landed, is one such situation that is/was not considerable as a refund.
sunnybeetroot 2y ago
You are correct, it’s mentioned in the article: > Buttigieg reiterated that refund requirements are already the standard for airlines, but the new DOT rules hold the airlines to account and makes sure passengers get the "refunds that are owed to them."
rco8786 2y ago
You have to know that, and you have to fight through their customer "service" desk/phone portal to get it. Most people just give up or take the first thing offered to them.
wildzzz 2y ago
When WOW Air closed down, they refunded European tickets but not Americans. We ended up doing a charge back with our credit card. I was a little pissed at first but ended up getting a cheaper flight to a better starting point for our trip to Europe through Air Italy (which coincidentally closed down a year later).

al_borland 2y ago

I had a flight cancelled due to COVID in 2020. I was given a voucher, which sat unused. They extended the expiration on it a couple times, due to the pandemic dragging on. Eventually, out of nowhere, after 2+ years of sitting on the voucher, I was issued a refund. I was glad to get the refund, but when talking about a multiyear timeframe, I feel like I should get my money back with interest.

mcny 2y ago
How did you get your money back? I didn’t get a refund from delta at all…
- al_borland 2y ago
  If I remember correctly, they refunded it to the card I purchased the flight on. This was through British Airways.
lupire 2y ago
In the context of the pandemic, being a little forgiving is reasonable.
Yeul 2y ago
COVID was such a cluster fuck that it could have bankrupted airliners. Under normal circumstances they can afford to refund their passengers. Companies need to have an incentive to provide a good service.
rqtwteye 2y ago
Alaska gave me a 12 month voucher that expired because I had no need to fly with them. I asked about extending it or a cash refund but they refused.
greenie_beans 2y ago
i'm still trying to get mine...

alsetmusic 2y ago

I missed a flight and rebooked for later on the same day. My return flight was still cancelled because how could they know I maintained the trip. There’s no way for them to be unaware that I bought a new one-way ticket. They were just predatory about it.