5 ms·

This reminds me of the yearly complaint in French politics that CAC40 companies are paying monstrous dividends, to which the answer is always: If they are so mo

This reminds me of the yearly complaint in French politics that CAC40 companies are paying monstrous dividends, to which the answer is always: If they are so monstrous then surely you should simply buy the shares yourself? You could just be an Amazon or a Walmart shareholder by logging into your Robinhood account, unlike the feudal regime where to become an aristocrat you would need to be some sort of famous knight, which seems much harder.

Scoundreller 2y ago
Do the CAC40 companies have fixed-percentage-of-profit dividend yields? Dividends (can be) just writing cheques to yourself with your own money.
- mamonster 2y ago
  I mean depends on if they are mature or not, but the complaints in France are about the absolute amounts in euro, not the %s paid out(for example this year the complaints are about Total making a lot of money from oil and banks making a lot of money from higher interest rates, the proximal causes of both being completely outside their control). >Dividends (can be) just writing cheques to yourself with your own money. Well, yes, since as a shareholder you technically "are" the company.
jmyeet 2y ago
First, intended or not there is an incredible amount of privilege in the idea that “everyone can be a shareholder”. An awful lot of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and struggle to afford housing and food. Increasing homelessness is, first and foremost, a consequence of housing unaffordability. Second, owning 10 shares of Amazon doesn’t make you a capital owner. If you still need your paycheck to survive, you’re a worker, subject to the whims of your employer. The really damaging thing about retirement accounts, for example, is that it has convinced people that they are current or future capital owners. It makes workers advocate against their own best interests.
- mamonster 2y ago
  I dare say that Americans not being able to afford housing has very little to do with Walmart or Amazon, since it was neither that decided to turn housing into a very safe and investable financial asset, but rather the government. The definition of capital owner being someone who doesn't need a paycheck to survive is weird. Your average startup founder needs a paycheck and he is clearly not a simple worker. As soon as you own shares in a company(or a bond) you are a capital owner. The question is then how much that capital is worth and what you can do to make this capital worth more.
Vegenoid 2y ago
> You could just be an Amazon or a Walmart shareholder by logging into your Robinhood account Many Walmart and Amazon employees could not, due to lack of capital. Even if they did buy stock in their company, I think it's pretty clear that is very different from being in a co-op as described in the article.

Scoundreller 2y ago

Do the CAC40 companies have fixed-percentage-of-profit dividend yields? Dividends (can be) just writing cheques to yourself with your own money.

mamonster 2y ago
I mean depends on if they are mature or not, but the complaints in France are about the absolute amounts in euro, not the %s paid out(for example this year the complaints are about Total making a lot of money from oil and banks making a lot of money from higher interest rates, the proximal causes of both being completely outside their control). >Dividends (can be) just writing cheques to yourself with your own money. Well, yes, since as a shareholder you technically "are" the company.

jmyeet 2y ago

First, intended or not there is an incredible amount of privilege in the idea that “everyone can be a shareholder”. An awful lot of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and struggle to afford housing and food. Increasing homelessness is, first and foremost, a consequence of housing unaffordability. Second, owning 10 shares of Amazon doesn’t make you a capital owner. If you still need your paycheck to survive, you’re a worker, subject to the whims of your employer. The really damaging thing about retirement accounts, for example, is that it has convinced people that they are current or future capital owners. It makes workers advocate against their own best interests.

mamonster 2y ago
I dare say that Americans not being able to afford housing has very little to do with Walmart or Amazon, since it was neither that decided to turn housing into a very safe and investable financial asset, but rather the government. The definition of capital owner being someone who doesn't need a paycheck to survive is weird. Your average startup founder needs a paycheck and he is clearly not a simple worker. As soon as you own shares in a company(or a bond) you are a capital owner. The question is then how much that capital is worth and what you can do to make this capital worth more.

Vegenoid 2y ago

> You could just be an Amazon or a Walmart shareholder by logging into your Robinhood account Many Walmart and Amazon employees could not, due to lack of capital. Even if they did buy stock in their company, I think it's pretty clear that is very different from being in a co-op as described in the article.