5 ms·

It's an amazing success story (even if surely not without any bad spots), it makes me happy just knowing that it exists. But I do wonder how much of its workab

by usrusr 2y ago

It's an amazing success story (even if surely not without any bad spots), it makes me happy just knowing that it exists. But I do wonder how much of its workability hinges on Basque nationalism rechanneled into something more useful than nationalism usually is. If that nationalism also had something like an independent state as a default outlet, the balance between cohesion and corruption creep might shift just enough across a tipping point. I'm really not sue that it can be replicated (but I'd love to be proven wrong!)

Arkhaine_kupo 2y ago
> But I do wonder how much of its workability hinges on Basque nationalism rechanneled into something more useful than nationalism usually is. Basically none, it does not hinge on that. If anything basque nationalism hurts the proyect more than it helps. Many of the workers in the basque country came "to disrupt" basque nationalism. So many of the old workforce in Mondragon is not basque born. there was a civil war in spain, most of the industrial capacity was destroyed in the country but not in the basque country. There was a nationalist movement there, so the far right dictatorship thought they had a great strategy. Move people from poor spain to the basque country, you utilise the little industry that remains and you take over the nationalism with people who feel spanish. The only bit of Basque "nationalism" that helped mondragon was that many of its competitors were kicked out. In the 70s and 80s a ton of american companies came to Spain, the far right dictator hiding his axis friends allied with america in exchange for some military bases and allowed american expansion in Spain. Basque country having some of the largest industrial network was a prime candidate for their location. Then the 80s and 90s had a ton of terrorism which scared american companies which left industrial giants like Mondragon without competition. So basque nationalism played little part in its success, its more like the American boom of the 1950s, everyone else had a detroyed industry and they didnt so there was a boom. Basque country had the same thing but instead of building coca cola and taking over south american countries to sell cheap bananas they opened cooperatives. There is little reason other than chance that Sillicon Valley is not like that, early companies like IBM could have set up as coopearatives and their early advanatge would not have been disrupted in the sleightest.
- greenie_beans 2y ago
  are there any books you'd recommend to learn more about this history?
  - Arkhaine_kupo 2y ago
    Any part you would be interested in particularly? I just grew up there, so most of it was less books and more just personal experience. But there are no few resources, books, shows or documentaries about the area.
    - greenie_beans 2y ago
      most curious to learn more about the civil war.
      - Arkhaine_kupo 2y ago
        There are a number of famous english speaking authors that have done pretty good work around it. On non fiction you have "The spanish civil war" by Thomas Hugh. On the fiction side you have "For whom the bell tolls" by Ernst hemingway and "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell
        piloto_ciego 2y ago
        Man, something about Spain is truly magical. For you I imagine it’s different since you grew up there (I get it, I’m from Alaska and it’s nice but it’s not magical like tourists see it), but for me, I remember reading Homage to Catalonia as a kid and thinking “I have to go to Spain one day” then later in life when I went, I backpacked through El País Vasco (and the rest of northern Spain) and just fell in love with that country. If I can get a remote job, my wife and I are strongly considering how we could move there. Spain is the most fascinating place I’ve ever been and the place just… feels right? I don’t know how to describe it. It’s the only place I’ve ever felt like I fit in. Eskerrik Asko / Gracias for taking me back to a series of Camino sense memories.
mzs 2y ago
I think it's more based on the schooling in CST: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching
randomcarbloke 2y ago
it is partially successful because it overcame one of the difficulties with scaling cooperatives, namely being selective with membership - it outsources so much to avoid dilution through membership it might aswell be a financial trust rather than anything roughly resembling a traditional cooperative.

by usrusr 2y ago

Arkhaine_kupo 2y ago

> But I do wonder how much of its workability hinges on Basque nationalism rechanneled into something more useful than nationalism usually is. Basically none, it does not hinge on that. If anything basque nationalism hurts the proyect more than it helps. Many of the workers in the basque country came "to disrupt" basque nationalism. So many of the old workforce in Mondragon is not basque born. there was a civil war in spain, most of the industrial capacity was destroyed in the country but not in the basque country. There was a nationalist movement there, so the far right dictatorship thought they had a great strategy. Move people from poor spain to the basque country, you utilise the little industry that remains and you take over the nationalism with people who feel spanish. The only bit of Basque "nationalism" that helped mondragon was that many of its competitors were kicked out. In the 70s and 80s a ton of american companies came to Spain, the far right dictator hiding his axis friends allied with america in exchange for some military bases and allowed american expansion in Spain. Basque country having some of the largest industrial network was a prime candidate for their location. Then the 80s and 90s had a ton of terrorism which scared american companies which left industrial giants like Mondragon without competition. So basque nationalism played little part in its success, its more like the American boom of the 1950s, everyone else had a detroyed industry and they didnt so there was a boom. Basque country had the same thing but instead of building coca cola and taking over south american countries to sell cheap bananas they opened cooperatives. There is little reason other than chance that Sillicon Valley is not like that, early companies like IBM could have set up as coopearatives and their early advanatge would not have been disrupted in the sleightest.

greenie_beans 2y ago
are there any books you'd recommend to learn more about this history?
- Arkhaine_kupo 2y ago
  Any part you would be interested in particularly? I just grew up there, so most of it was less books and more just personal experience. But there are no few resources, books, shows or documentaries about the area.
  - greenie_beans 2y ago
    most curious to learn more about the civil war.
    - Arkhaine_kupo 2y ago
      There are a number of famous english speaking authors that have done pretty good work around it. On non fiction you have "The spanish civil war" by Thomas Hugh. On the fiction side you have "For whom the bell tolls" by Ernst hemingway and "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell
      - piloto_ciego 2y ago
        Man, something about Spain is truly magical. For you I imagine it’s different since you grew up there (I get it, I’m from Alaska and it’s nice but it’s not magical like tourists see it), but for me, I remember reading Homage to Catalonia as a kid and thinking “I have to go to Spain one day” then later in life when I went, I backpacked through El País Vasco (and the rest of northern Spain) and just fell in love with that country. If I can get a remote job, my wife and I are strongly considering how we could move there. Spain is the most fascinating place I’ve ever been and the place just… feels right? I don’t know how to describe it. It’s the only place I’ve ever felt like I fit in. Eskerrik Asko / Gracias for taking me back to a series of Camino sense memories.

mzs 2y ago

I think it's more based on the schooling in CST: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching

randomcarbloke 2y ago

it is partially successful because it overcame one of the difficulties with scaling cooperatives, namely being selective with membership - it outsources so much to avoid dilution through membership it might aswell be a financial trust rather than anything roughly resembling a traditional cooperative.