4 ms·

Imagine Europe forcing a sale of the European side of Meta or Google because they have a lot of data on EU citizens...

by t0mas88 3y ago

presentation 3y ago
Though China already has banned plenty of western apps under the same premise. Plenty of precedence on the other side.
- r721 3y ago
  Russia too: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter/X are banned, Tiktok is severely restricted (no uploads, no non-Russian content).
- satao 3y ago
  yes, but only the US is seen as an advocate of unlimited free speech: https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/brazilian-government-forced-censorship-x-new-report-reveals https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/brazilian-g... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/18/musk-moraes-brazil-free-speech/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/18/musk-moraes-...
- schoen 3y ago
  But the U.S. theory (which I advocate) is that this behavior is hurting Chinese people, not just Americans! It's somewhat bizarre to say that retaliating for that in the same fashion is thereby justified. Sure, it makes sense in a trade war sense, but not in a "free speech is actually good and everyone is entitled to it" sense.
a_humean 3y ago
I mean... that isn't outside of the realm of possibility honestly. A lot of European states and the EU parliament have been making noises that could lead down that path. EU states actually take user data seriously, and its not like the US firms have been covering themselves in glory in that regard.
hackerlight 3y ago
Yes an ally having access to sensitive data is exactly the same situation as an authoritarian rival having access.
- krapp 3y ago
  Echelon and Five Eyes would like a word. American data in European hands is a threat to Americans. European data in American hands is a direct threat to Europeans. We still kill people over metadata. And be careful mentioning authoritarianism as if the West hasn't been creeping in that direction for a while. Trump was a clown but also a warning to the rest of the world that American stability and "Pax Americana" could no longer be depended upon long term.
  - hackerlight 3y ago
    There is so much false equivalence in this thread it's stunning. If you're Europe, do you want to trust the country that just doubled its trade with Russia, or the country who just sent $60bn to Ukraine and is in NATO? The level of naivete from tech people of anything outside their bubble (in this case geopolitics and foreign policy) is unbelievable, it's like they live in a fairy tail world where everyone who does spying is somehow equally hostile to Western interests. It's just not true. Europe cares about Russia and by extension, China. America is an ally helping them fight their enemy. Don't confuse yourself into thinking anything else.
- account42 3y ago
  Lol the US is no one's ally.
  - pb7 3y ago
    That’s not what the people in charge of your country think.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
a_random_canuck 3y ago
Because Meta and Google are weaponized by a dictatorship? How can people really be so blind to the enormous threat posed by allowing hostile dictatorships unfettered access to our eyeballs and devices within our own borders.
- password54321 3y ago
  The current favourite presidential candidate is someone who is claiming election fraud despite having no proof because he lost.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- satao 3y ago
  do you really think they are not?
- krapp 3y ago
  Both Meta and Google have deep, well established ties to the US intelligence and military. So yes, they have been weaponized. Just by whatever the hell kind of oligarchy/plutarchy/neo-reactionary shitshow the US is turning into, and not a dictatorship per se, yet.
- cherryteastain 3y ago
  US big tech is weaponized by the US security establishment, and even used against "allies" Mass surveillance program PRISM: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM NSA (agency running PRISM) spying on the German chancellor: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spied-merkel-other-top-european-officials-through-danish-2021-05-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie...

Imagine Europe forcing a sale of the European side of Meta or Google because they have a lot of data on EU citizens...

presentation 3y ago

Though China already has banned plenty of western apps under the same premise. Plenty of precedence on the other side.

r721 3y ago
Russia too: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter/X are banned, Tiktok is severely restricted (no uploads, no non-Russian content).
satao 3y ago
yes, but only the US is seen as an advocate of unlimited free speech: https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/brazilian-government-forced-censorship-x-new-report-reveals https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/brazilian-g... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/18/musk-moraes-brazil-free-speech/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/18/musk-moraes-...
schoen 3y ago
But the U.S. theory (which I advocate) is that this behavior is hurting Chinese people, not just Americans! It's somewhat bizarre to say that retaliating for that in the same fashion is thereby justified. Sure, it makes sense in a trade war sense, but not in a "free speech is actually good and everyone is entitled to it" sense.

a_humean 3y ago

I mean... that isn't outside of the realm of possibility honestly. A lot of European states and the EU parliament have been making noises that could lead down that path. EU states actually take user data seriously, and its not like the US firms have been covering themselves in glory in that regard.

hackerlight 3y ago

Yes an ally having access to sensitive data is exactly the same situation as an authoritarian rival having access.

krapp 3y ago
Echelon and Five Eyes would like a word. American data in European hands is a threat to Americans. European data in American hands is a direct threat to Europeans. We still kill people over metadata. And be careful mentioning authoritarianism as if the West hasn't been creeping in that direction for a while. Trump was a clown but also a warning to the rest of the world that American stability and "Pax Americana" could no longer be depended upon long term.
- hackerlight 3y ago
  There is so much false equivalence in this thread it's stunning. If you're Europe, do you want to trust the country that just doubled its trade with Russia, or the country who just sent $60bn to Ukraine and is in NATO? The level of naivete from tech people of anything outside their bubble (in this case geopolitics and foreign policy) is unbelievable, it's like they live in a fairy tail world where everyone who does spying is somehow equally hostile to Western interests. It's just not true. Europe cares about Russia and by extension, China. America is an ally helping them fight their enemy. Don't confuse yourself into thinking anything else.
account42 3y ago
Lol the US is no one's ally.
- pb7 3y ago
  That’s not what the people in charge of your country think.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

a_random_canuck 3y ago

Because Meta and Google are weaponized by a dictatorship? How can people really be so blind to the enormous threat posed by allowing hostile dictatorships unfettered access to our eyeballs and devices within our own borders.

password54321 3y ago
The current favourite presidential candidate is someone who is claiming election fraud despite having no proof because he lost.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
satao 3y ago
do you really think they are not?
krapp 3y ago
Both Meta and Google have deep, well established ties to the US intelligence and military. So yes, they have been weaponized. Just by whatever the hell kind of oligarchy/plutarchy/neo-reactionary shitshow the US is turning into, and not a dictatorship per se, yet.
cherryteastain 3y ago
US big tech is weaponized by the US security establishment, and even used against "allies" Mass surveillance program PRISM: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM NSA (agency running PRISM) spying on the German chancellor: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spied-merkel-other-top-european-officials-through-danish-2021-05-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie...