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* An ENEMY STATE has controlling influence of a widely used social network in the USA. People's minds are influenced by it .. "You are what you eat" holds for w

by ncr100 3y ago

* An ENEMY STATE has controlling influence of a widely used social network in the USA. People's minds are influenced by it .. "You are what you eat" holds for what you read/watch and consequently think * This legislation won't lose Biden the election, banning abortion by an insurrectionist will win it * We are in a country that needs people to work together to be a successful country - we are big and highly populated democracy * Rugged individualism - "me first" - is easily attacked by influencers, subject to divide-and-conquer techniques. From marketing to foreign influence, it is a weakness. * Healthcare (even as expensive as it still is), reproductive rights, free ability to vote, and ability to have civil-war-free existence in our lifetimes are contingent on a healthily functioning government. * To support OUR STATE we must find a middle ground of unity. We must recognize the forces that divide us. We must choose the path to that maintains our ever-evolving sense of personal "freedom". We must be good citizens.

lmm 3y ago
> An ENEMY STATE has controlling influence of a widely used social network in the USA. People's minds are influenced by it .. "You are what you eat" holds for what you read/watch and consequently think How are you defining an enemy, and why does it matter whether they're a state or not? There are several domestic entities (governmental and non) that I would consider much bigger threats to me and the people I care about than the PRC government. And if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds, what good is being a "democracy" or even an independent state at all? If I wanted to only watch state-approved media then I'd move to China.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  > If I wanted to only watch state-approved media then I'd move to China. Good news, looks like for now you can watch China-approved media without leaving your own country;)
- knodi123 3y ago
  > There are several domestic entities (governmental and non) that I would consider much bigger threats to me We can address multiple threats at once, and are not compelled to address them in priority order. Any improvement is good. > if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds This seems a very weak argument. Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda. But if you think propaganda doesn't work, then I've got a bridge to sell you. Yes, there are lots of kinds and sources and degrees of propaganda, from every side. But it exists on a spectrum - and when it's being controlled by one country, covertly, for the consumption of another country, with whom you have a tense military standoff, then it's a little more insidious than the "let the people decide!" stance you're advocating.
  - lmm 3y ago
    > We can address multiple threats at once, and are not compelled to address them in priority order. Any improvement is good. Not necessarily. A balance of power can be better for us regular folks at the bottom. Frankly I feel safer in a world where there's at least some non-US social media than a world where people who run the US run everything and no-one can call them out. > Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda. Then what exactly is this bill aiming for?
    - verdverm 3y ago
      A European social media company would not be facing the same backlash Russia, China, and Iran are at war with the West, the West has not acknowledged it widely yet
      - lmm 3y ago
        > A European social media company would not be facing the same backlash Maybe. Or maybe the US would find some excuse to ban them too. Or the same one - remember the US considers it appropriate to spy on and read the emails of the German chancellor. Conveniently, there isn't any major European social media to compare to.
    - knodi123 3y ago
      > at least some non-US social media That's not the issue, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. It's not the non-US source, it's the governmental control for specific purposes > Then what exactly is this bill aiming for? Not making it illegal to see- just not making it easy for china to do covertly on a broad scale.
      - lmm 3y ago
        > That's not the issue, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. > It's not the non-US source, it's the governmental control for specific purposes Perhaps. Or perhaps it's the US that's being disingenuous, and the real issue is that TikTok threatens what's otherwise a total US dominance of social media. (And note that the national security letter system means that the US has a similar level of governmental control)
likeclockwork 3y ago
Every item in my house is produced by this so-called enemy state.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  I am not saying I agree with grandparent, but I would like to point out that both your statement and grandparents statement could simultaneously be true with zero conflict between the two
  - likeclockwork 3y ago
    I'm just saying it's a bit late to start raving about "enemy state" influence after they outsourced the manufacturing capacity of the entire country to it.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      The capacity is actually pretty close between the US and China https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scorecard-how-the-us-compares-to-18-other-nations/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scor... The difference is largely in the products produced, for example, no one is building anything close to the F-35, which is a significant export for the US. > America is a manufacturing superpower: Of the 22 manufacturing categories tracked by the U.N., the U.S. ranked first in six categories and second in 13 others, underscoring the breadth and competitiveness of American manufacturing. In only three sectors—apparel, motor vehicles and leather—did the U.S. fail to rank either first or second. From: https://www.barrons.com/articles/china-manufacturing-semiconductor-electronics-us-competition-51661894538 https://www.barrons.com/articles/china-manufacturing-semicon... If we move beyond the US vs China to the West vs Authoritarians, the comparison becomes dominating
- tivert 3y ago
  > Every item in my house is produced by this so-called enemy state. Because Americans have been foolish and short sighted. So then they're presented with a choice: continue making the mistake or take the difficult steps to attempt to correct it.

by ncr100 3y ago

lmm 3y ago

> An ENEMY STATE has controlling influence of a widely used social network in the USA. People's minds are influenced by it .. "You are what you eat" holds for what you read/watch and consequently think How are you defining an enemy, and why does it matter whether they're a state or not? There are several domestic entities (governmental and non) that I would consider much bigger threats to me and the people I care about than the PRC government. And if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds, what good is being a "democracy" or even an independent state at all? If I wanted to only watch state-approved media then I'd move to China.

throwaway290 3y ago
> If I wanted to only watch state-approved media then I'd move to China. Good news, looks like for now you can watch China-approved media without leaving your own country;)
knodi123 3y ago
> There are several domestic entities (governmental and non) that I would consider much bigger threats to me We can address multiple threats at once, and are not compelled to address them in priority order. Any improvement is good. > if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds This seems a very weak argument. Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda. But if you think propaganda doesn't work, then I've got a bridge to sell you. Yes, there are lots of kinds and sources and degrees of propaganda, from every side. But it exists on a spectrum - and when it's being controlled by one country, covertly, for the consumption of another country, with whom you have a tense military standoff, then it's a little more insidious than the "let the people decide!" stance you're advocating.
- lmm 3y ago
  > We can address multiple threats at once, and are not compelled to address them in priority order. Any improvement is good. Not necessarily. A balance of power can be better for us regular folks at the bottom. Frankly I feel safer in a world where there's at least some non-US social media than a world where people who run the US run everything and no-one can call them out. > Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda. Then what exactly is this bill aiming for?
  - verdverm 3y ago
    A European social media company would not be facing the same backlash Russia, China, and Iran are at war with the West, the West has not acknowledged it widely yet
    - lmm 3y ago
      > A European social media company would not be facing the same backlash Maybe. Or maybe the US would find some excuse to ban them too. Or the same one - remember the US considers it appropriate to spy on and read the emails of the German chancellor. Conveniently, there isn't any major European social media to compare to.
  - knodi123 3y ago
    > at least some non-US social media That's not the issue, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. It's not the non-US source, it's the governmental control for specific purposes > Then what exactly is this bill aiming for? Not making it illegal to see- just not making it easy for china to do covertly on a broad scale.
    - lmm 3y ago
      > That's not the issue, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. > It's not the non-US source, it's the governmental control for specific purposes Perhaps. Or perhaps it's the US that's being disingenuous, and the real issue is that TikTok threatens what's otherwise a total US dominance of social media. (And note that the national security letter system means that the US has a similar level of governmental control)

likeclockwork 3y ago

Every item in my house is produced by this so-called enemy state.

SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
I am not saying I agree with grandparent, but I would like to point out that both your statement and grandparents statement could simultaneously be true with zero conflict between the two
- likeclockwork 3y ago
  I'm just saying it's a bit late to start raving about "enemy state" influence after they outsourced the manufacturing capacity of the entire country to it.
  - verdverm 3y ago
    The capacity is actually pretty close between the US and China https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scorecard-how-the-us-compares-to-18-other-nations/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scor... The difference is largely in the products produced, for example, no one is building anything close to the F-35, which is a significant export for the US. > America is a manufacturing superpower: Of the 22 manufacturing categories tracked by the U.N., the U.S. ranked first in six categories and second in 13 others, underscoring the breadth and competitiveness of American manufacturing. In only three sectors—apparel, motor vehicles and leather—did the U.S. fail to rank either first or second. From: https://www.barrons.com/articles/china-manufacturing-semiconductor-electronics-us-competition-51661894538 https://www.barrons.com/articles/china-manufacturing-semicon... If we move beyond the US vs China to the West vs Authoritarians, the comparison becomes dominating
tivert 3y ago
> Every item in my house is produced by this so-called enemy state. Because Americans have been foolish and short sighted. So then they're presented with a choice: continue making the mistake or take the difficult steps to attempt to correct it.