4 ms·

Now do versus race as identified in med school admissions. I'm curious if the variance in entry standards vs race poison the well for certain professionals.

petesergeant 2y ago
How would you control for idiot racists who believed they were getting a lower standard of care from certain ethnicities and ensuing psychosomatic effects?
- beaeglebeachh 2y ago
  How did they control for idiot bigots who believed they were getting a lower standard of care from certain gender and ensuing psychosomatic effects?
  - petesergeant 2y ago
    They don't, but as they're not looking to link it to "variance in entry standards vs race [that] poison the well", they don't need to control for it: bigotry being a possible explanation for their findings would be a reasonable conclusion.
  - underlipton 2y ago
    That's a good question. Since, IIRC, men in professional positions tend to score higher on perceived competence, it'd be actually even more damning if they didn't control for that properly.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- andrewmutz 2y ago
  Mortality is unambiguous
  - wjb3 2y ago
    Maybe - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8302433/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8302433/
- prepend 2y ago
  I suppose the same way they controlled for idiot bigots in this study. Since the outcome measure is mortality, someone would have to be super racist to die in order to prove a point. All joking aside, you could look at patients who are unconscious who never see the race or gender of the physician, and stuff like that. These are solvable problems and people have been doing useful studies with racist participants for decades.
  - petesergeant 2y ago
    > someone would have to be super racist to die in order to prove a point I don't think that's true. Seeking a second opinion based on the race of the first doctor, variable treatment compliance by race of prescriber, willingness to discuss and understand a condition, poorer quality concordance, declining to follow a referral to a specialist of a certain race, etc, are all examples of "small" decisions someone could take based on racism that would likely show up in aggregate in mortality outcomes.

petesergeant 2y ago

How would you control for idiot racists who believed they were getting a lower standard of care from certain ethnicities and ensuing psychosomatic effects?

beaeglebeachh 2y ago
How did they control for idiot bigots who believed they were getting a lower standard of care from certain gender and ensuing psychosomatic effects?
- petesergeant 2y ago
  They don't, but as they're not looking to link it to "variance in entry standards vs race [that] poison the well", they don't need to control for it: bigotry being a possible explanation for their findings would be a reasonable conclusion.
- underlipton 2y ago
  That's a good question. Since, IIRC, men in professional positions tend to score higher on perceived competence, it'd be actually even more damning if they didn't control for that properly.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
andrewmutz 2y ago
Mortality is unambiguous
- wjb3 2y ago
  Maybe - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8302433/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8302433/
prepend 2y ago
I suppose the same way they controlled for idiot bigots in this study. Since the outcome measure is mortality, someone would have to be super racist to die in order to prove a point. All joking aside, you could look at patients who are unconscious who never see the race or gender of the physician, and stuff like that. These are solvable problems and people have been doing useful studies with racist participants for decades.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  > someone would have to be super racist to die in order to prove a point I don't think that's true. Seeking a second opinion based on the race of the first doctor, variable treatment compliance by race of prescriber, willingness to discuss and understand a condition, poorer quality concordance, declining to follow a referral to a specialist of a certain race, etc, are all examples of "small" decisions someone could take based on racism that would likely show up in aggregate in mortality outcomes.