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There's an interesting gap when discussing carplay/aa. Cars from the 90s up until about 2013 can be easily fitted with a $500 head unit upgrade, and support ca

There's an interesting gap when discussing carplay/aa. Cars from the 90s up until about 2013 can be easily fitted with a $500 head unit upgrade, and support carplay quite well. With the right tools, it can be done in about two hours right in your driveway. Cars from 2018 and up pretty universally support carplay, and it's generally quite well integrated into the car's infotainment system. But, between 2013 and 2017, things were a complete mess. In-car systems were too integrated to be replaceable with a third party 2-DIN unit, but too primitive to run carplay/AA. People who have cars from this era either sell them (for less than they're worth, since only 21% of people will buy a car without carplay!) or put up with it for another 8 years or so until the car's wound out. For example, my rustbucket '06 Toyota has a great sounding stereo with carplay but my sibling's 2017 Nissan is stuck with flaky and poorly integrated bluetooth. Or, if you do want to upgrade your 2013-2017 car, you end up replacing half of the in-dash components with ones from a couple model years up, tapping into the car's CAN bus to recognize the new controller, and then running some sketchy scripts to patch the firmware to remove component protection since the VIN's don't match up anymore. Not for the faint of heart.

1970-01-01 2y ago
People like to complain about touch screens and lack of buttons, but the loss of the double DIN slot is a much worse loss. It more or less forces you to buy a new car to get satellite navigation updates or properly functioning Bluetooth.
- bonestamp2 2y ago
  Agreed. These days you can get a double DIN carplay/aa deck with a slot load DVD player for under $80 USD. That is absolutely shocking. I mean, we couldn't even get a 5" slot load CD drive for our computers for that kind of money and these things have a 5" screen on them too!
js2 2y ago
> But, between 2013 and 2017, things were a complete mess. In-car systems were too integrated to be replaceable with a third party 2-DIN unit, but too primitive to run carplay/AA Mazda sells a retrofit kit for their 2014 (Mazda 3) / 2016 (other models) and newer cars that didn't come with native CP/AA. It's about $200 and DIY if you're the least bit handy: https://mazdaparts.org/mazda-3-smartphone-mirroring-kit.html https://mazdaparts.org/mazda-3-smartphone-mirroring-kit.html
- srockets 2y ago
  For other brands, there are third party retrofits that replace the integrated stereo with a DIN mount, or with a carplay compatible head unit. The software on those is usually clunky, but it's not like OEM car head units are known for their UX.
- wvenable 2y ago
  Sadly my 2014 CX-5 is not supported.
  - js2 2y ago
    Sorry if I got your hopes up. I edited my comment to be more accurate. I didn't realize 2014 only applied to the Mazda 3 and it's 2016 for the other models.
  - tssva 2y ago
    I replaced my 2014 CX-5 head unit with a 3rd party unit which supports CarPlay/AA, integrates with the steering controls, the factory Bose amplifier and retains the ability to change the car settings through the head unit. Took about 2 1/2 hours to install it.
    - wvenable 2y ago
      Which head unit is that? I looked into it years ago but I definitely couldn't find one that still allowed you to change the car settings and I felt that was a bit of non-starter.
      - tssva 2y ago
        It is a Kenwood. The integration is done through an iDatalink Maesteo RR unit. They work with a wide range of cars and head units not just Kenwood. When you get the iDatalink module you connect it to your computer via usb, tell it which model car, head unit and wiring harness you have. It programs it for that combination. If you go to Crutchfield and tell it which car you have it will display a list of head units which will work with your car. Once you select a head unit it will present you with an installation package needed. The packages include the 2-din adapter, trim pieces, wiring harnesses and the iDatalink unit. It will also tell you what functionality the kit will allow. You can add it all to your order with a single click. I also upgraded the head unit in my 2017 Outback this way. You will need to run a new microphone because the one which comes with the car is powered. It took me 10 minutes to replace the factory one and run the cable through the headliner and down the pillar. Super easy. You will also need to replace the factory gps antenna. The factory one is located with the middle front speaker which is directly above where the head unit goes. Your new head unit will come with a microphone and gps antenna. I believe other car audio sites will similarly present you with installation packages. I’ve been using Crutchfield since I replaced the stereo in my 1st car in 1985 so that is who I went with.
bdcravens 2y ago
Another option is to get a device that is essentially a tablet that runs Carplay and connects to the car's audio via Bluetooth. https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Receivers-Display-Stereo-Bluetooth-Navigation/dp/B0C2BVYG24 https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Receivers-Display-Stereo-Blu...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
talldatethrow 2y ago
Only 21% of people will buy a car without car play? Maaaaybe new cars. Maybe. I sold cars up til a few years ago. Countless cars got sold where Bluetooth itself barely works, and people are basically fine with it. People buying used cars will take Bluetooth as a nice perk, but to think they make major decisions based on carplay in a 2015 Chevy Volt is funny.
- kergonath 2y ago
  > People buying used cars will take Bluetooth as a nice perk, but to think they make major decisions based on carplay in a 2015 Chevy Volt is funny. That was my position until we bought our last car. We got it second hand, so we did not really have a definite set of required features and CarPlay was just nice to have. After having used it over the last 4 years, it completely changed though, and I can guarantee I won’t consider a car without it for my next one. It helps that around here all non-garbage car have had it for quite a few years now.
superfunny 2y ago
"...since only 21% of people will buy a car without carplay" That statistic is complete bullshit.
- chgs 2y ago
  I suspect it came from https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/05/carplay-popularity-iphone-tesla/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/05/carplay-popularity-iphone-tes... A non statistically relevant random poll of Apple fanboys
- eloisant 2y ago
  I don't have an iPhone but I wouldn't buy a car without Android Auto - and it's usually the same cars that support carplay. Anyway it's pretty much moot because besides Tesla, all new cars support both Carplay and AA.
SkyPuncher 2y ago
We had a 2014 that suffered from this. It some touchscreen that was basically useless besides showing the backup cam and a few random, infrequently changed settings. However, replacing it was essentially impossible it also served as a critical system for a few things. By contrast, my 98 Jeep and '08 sedan were both easy upgrades to modern head units with standard DINs. Not having CarPlay/AA was actually a massive reason I wanted to get rid of that car.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tssva 2y ago
I have a 2014 Mazda CX-5 and a 2017 Subaru Outback. I have replaced the head units in both with 3rd party units which support CarPlay/AA. Both installations were easy and took about 2-3 hours. Both support changing the car settings through the 3rd party headhunt, integrate with the steering wheel controls, factory backup camera and the factory installed amplifiers (Bose and Harmon Kardon). The key to these integrations were iDatalink Maestro units. I ordered mine through Crutchfield but most decent car audio websites will generate an installation package including the appropriate wire harnesses, iDatalink unit, 2-DIN adapter and trim pieces once you select a head unit to purchase.
- fransje26 2y ago
  > Both support changing the car settings through the 3rd party headhunt, integrate with the steering wheel controls, factory backup camera and the factory installed amplifiers (Bose and Harmon Kardon) Wow, I'm impressed. I wouldn't have thought manufacturers nowadays would be forthcoming enough to allow that. Do you know if it is something specific to (some?) Japanese manufacturers, or is it a form of info-display standard that would also make it possible with other brands?
  - tssva 2y ago
    I know the iDatalink Maestro works with some European and US cars also. I don't know that there is any kind of standard. I suspect the unit has reversed engineered the canbus messages for the different manufacturers. Before installing the unit you have to program it via usb. They provide software for Windows and Mac. You select your vehicle, wiring harness model and head unit model and it programs it appropriately. It also downloads pdfs with instructions for installation including wiring harness connections. For my Mazda no splicing of any of the factory wiring was necessary. For the Subaru I had to splice a single wire for the Starlink (similar to Onstar and not SpaceX Starlink related) unit. 3rd party headhunts from various manufacturers have a port for the iDatalink unit which allows it to integrate with the head unit. Both of mine are Kenwood but I know a few others have support. There are also alternatives to the iDatalink Maestro it is just what I have used.
prmoustache 2y ago
It is not advertised by the car makers but most cars of that era can still be retrofit with dual DIN slots.
wodenokoto 2y ago
> Cars from 2018 and up pretty universally support Carplay, and it's generally quite well integrated into the car's infotainment system. I don't know what cars you drive, but they are not budget or Chinese. I recently rented a bottom-of-the-line Nissan '24 and just getting audio from my iPhone was a struggle - and there was absolutely no Carplay in sight. Most Chinese cars I've rented (all 23 or 24 models) have advertised Carplay, but what they really have is a half-baked phone mirroring, which maybe worked on ios11 or something, but definetely doesn't today.
- chgs 2y ago
  I rent almost exclusively in the “B” level in the U.K. and have always had CarPlay. Maybe it’s a policy by Enterprise UK. Occasionally I’ve had something like a D or so, or a van, but even the last van I had had CarPlay.
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  I've got a cheap 2021 Nissan Versa, and it has CarPlay plus a bunch of useful electronics features (front/back proximity detection, auto-dipping headlights, etc).
whoitwas 2y ago
I'm interested in where this data is sourced: "only 21% of people will buy a car without carplay". I find that really hard to believe even if the survey was isolated to SF.
- bradfa 2y ago
  I am in that 21%. Heck, I would MUCH prefer to buy a car with no touch screens at all. All I want is a decent car ala 2004ish but with modern crash safety and headlights that don’t suck. I do not care about Bluetooth even! I realize I will not be able to buy a car with no screens due to the backup camera rules. But there is actual safety value in that for me so I’m ok with it.
  - suprfnk 2y ago
    I agree with the sentiment, but: how do you navigate? Especially to unknown places?
    - bradfa 2y ago
      My phone works great for driving directions. I plug it in and turn up the volume when I'm driving by myself. I plug it in and turn off the volume and give it to another human to tell me what to do when I have passengers I can trust to navigate for me. I only really need to use the phone for navigation like 2 or 3 times per month, at most. My daily commute to the office never has traffic and in nicer weather times I often ride my bike.
- JeremyNT 2y ago
  I wonder if that assertion is based on new car sales. For example, I wouldn't buy a new car without android auto, because cars with it are readily available and hardly cost anything extra. But if I had say $6k to spend on a used car instead of $20k+ on a new car? Your options are much more limited and the tradeoffs unpalatable. I know I can still put a phone holder in any vehicle and I'm off to the races.
dayvid 2y ago
I spent like $100 to put a large Carplay display in a 2007 beater Honda Accord I bought recently. Much better than my fiance's Mazda system
- sedawk 2y ago
  Interested in doing this, can you please share the details of the product you purchased?
_yb2s 2y ago
Nowadays there are low cost Chinese kits that directly add AA/Carplay to most of those early integrated systems without even replacing the unit. They’ve reverse engineered the lcd and touch screen interfaces so they can hijack the screen.
spike021 2y ago
My car is from between 2013-2017 and it supports a standard 2-DIN replacement with Apple CarPlay.
- bdcravens 2y ago
  That's what I did with my 2018 Toyota C-HR. For a time, that same radio was in my wife's 2018 Rav4 and a friend's 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan.
floxy 2y ago
>(for less than they're worth, since only 21% of people will buy a car without carplay!) ...is there a handy list of which models these are? I'm in the market for a used car, and I'm perfectly happy to pay less for something without CarPlay.
- bombcar 2y ago
  The percentages only apply to new car buyers, in my experience. Once you're in used territory, all bets are off and you'd have to poke around.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    The percentage for new car buyers is actually less than 21%.
4rt 2y ago
Porsche has a reasonably priced upgrade path for their head units even in quite old cars which add Carplay. The value is obvious to them - it maintains a high resale value on older vehicles which maintains their higher current sale value. Something I found interesting when I was hacking my VW to add Carplay (without paying £300) was that a ton of manufacturers in the ~2016 era use the exact same head unit and OS but with a different front fascia, different button layout and a relatively advanced UI skinning system. If you can be bothered you can add e.g. Audi track G-sensors to your VW or use a different skin.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  I think you’re finding “different” car manufacturers using that system because they’re all VW owned brands. You’ll find the rest of the parts on the car are mostly the same also. If you want to annoy an Audi owner, point out which VW model is 95 percent identical… in some cases like the Q7 vs VW Touareg, the VW model is even higher end and nicer.

1970-01-01 2y ago

People like to complain about touch screens and lack of buttons, but the loss of the double DIN slot is a much worse loss. It more or less forces you to buy a new car to get satellite navigation updates or properly functioning Bluetooth.

bonestamp2 2y ago
Agreed. These days you can get a double DIN carplay/aa deck with a slot load DVD player for under $80 USD. That is absolutely shocking. I mean, we couldn't even get a 5" slot load CD drive for our computers for that kind of money and these things have a 5" screen on them too!

js2 2y ago

> But, between 2013 and 2017, things were a complete mess. In-car systems were too integrated to be replaceable with a third party 2-DIN unit, but too primitive to run carplay/AA Mazda sells a retrofit kit for their 2014 (Mazda 3) / 2016 (other models) and newer cars that didn't come with native CP/AA. It's about $200 and DIY if you're the least bit handy: https://mazdaparts.org/mazda-3-smartphone-mirroring-kit.html https://mazdaparts.org/mazda-3-smartphone-mirroring-kit.html

srockets 2y ago
For other brands, there are third party retrofits that replace the integrated stereo with a DIN mount, or with a carplay compatible head unit. The software on those is usually clunky, but it's not like OEM car head units are known for their UX.
wvenable 2y ago
Sadly my 2014 CX-5 is not supported.
- js2 2y ago
  Sorry if I got your hopes up. I edited my comment to be more accurate. I didn't realize 2014 only applied to the Mazda 3 and it's 2016 for the other models.
- tssva 2y ago
  I replaced my 2014 CX-5 head unit with a 3rd party unit which supports CarPlay/AA, integrates with the steering controls, the factory Bose amplifier and retains the ability to change the car settings through the head unit. Took about 2 1/2 hours to install it.
  - wvenable 2y ago
    Which head unit is that? I looked into it years ago but I definitely couldn't find one that still allowed you to change the car settings and I felt that was a bit of non-starter.
    - tssva 2y ago
      It is a Kenwood. The integration is done through an iDatalink Maesteo RR unit. They work with a wide range of cars and head units not just Kenwood. When you get the iDatalink module you connect it to your computer via usb, tell it which model car, head unit and wiring harness you have. It programs it for that combination. If you go to Crutchfield and tell it which car you have it will display a list of head units which will work with your car. Once you select a head unit it will present you with an installation package needed. The packages include the 2-din adapter, trim pieces, wiring harnesses and the iDatalink unit. It will also tell you what functionality the kit will allow. You can add it all to your order with a single click. I also upgraded the head unit in my 2017 Outback this way. You will need to run a new microphone because the one which comes with the car is powered. It took me 10 minutes to replace the factory one and run the cable through the headliner and down the pillar. Super easy. You will also need to replace the factory gps antenna. The factory one is located with the middle front speaker which is directly above where the head unit goes. Your new head unit will come with a microphone and gps antenna. I believe other car audio sites will similarly present you with installation packages. I’ve been using Crutchfield since I replaced the stereo in my 1st car in 1985 so that is who I went with.

bdcravens 2y ago

Another option is to get a device that is essentially a tablet that runs Carplay and connects to the car's audio via Bluetooth. https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Receivers-Display-Stereo-Bluetooth-Navigation/dp/B0C2BVYG24 https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Receivers-Display-Stereo-Blu...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

talldatethrow 2y ago

Only 21% of people will buy a car without car play? Maaaaybe new cars. Maybe. I sold cars up til a few years ago. Countless cars got sold where Bluetooth itself barely works, and people are basically fine with it. People buying used cars will take Bluetooth as a nice perk, but to think they make major decisions based on carplay in a 2015 Chevy Volt is funny.

kergonath 2y ago
> People buying used cars will take Bluetooth as a nice perk, but to think they make major decisions based on carplay in a 2015 Chevy Volt is funny. That was my position until we bought our last car. We got it second hand, so we did not really have a definite set of required features and CarPlay was just nice to have. After having used it over the last 4 years, it completely changed though, and I can guarantee I won’t consider a car without it for my next one. It helps that around here all non-garbage car have had it for quite a few years now.

superfunny 2y ago

"...since only 21% of people will buy a car without carplay" That statistic is complete bullshit.

chgs 2y ago
I suspect it came from https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/05/carplay-popularity-iphone-tesla/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/05/carplay-popularity-iphone-tes... A non statistically relevant random poll of Apple fanboys
eloisant 2y ago
I don't have an iPhone but I wouldn't buy a car without Android Auto - and it's usually the same cars that support carplay. Anyway it's pretty much moot because besides Tesla, all new cars support both Carplay and AA.

SkyPuncher 2y ago

We had a 2014 that suffered from this. It some touchscreen that was basically useless besides showing the backup cam and a few random, infrequently changed settings. However, replacing it was essentially impossible it also served as a critical system for a few things. By contrast, my 98 Jeep and '08 sedan were both easy upgrades to modern head units with standard DINs. Not having CarPlay/AA was actually a massive reason I wanted to get rid of that car.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tssva 2y ago

I have a 2014 Mazda CX-5 and a 2017 Subaru Outback. I have replaced the head units in both with 3rd party units which support CarPlay/AA. Both installations were easy and took about 2-3 hours. Both support changing the car settings through the 3rd party headhunt, integrate with the steering wheel controls, factory backup camera and the factory installed amplifiers (Bose and Harmon Kardon). The key to these integrations were iDatalink Maestro units. I ordered mine through Crutchfield but most decent car audio websites will generate an installation package including the appropriate wire harnesses, iDatalink unit, 2-DIN adapter and trim pieces once you select a head unit to purchase.

fransje26 2y ago
> Both support changing the car settings through the 3rd party headhunt, integrate with the steering wheel controls, factory backup camera and the factory installed amplifiers (Bose and Harmon Kardon) Wow, I'm impressed. I wouldn't have thought manufacturers nowadays would be forthcoming enough to allow that. Do you know if it is something specific to (some?) Japanese manufacturers, or is it a form of info-display standard that would also make it possible with other brands?
- tssva 2y ago
  I know the iDatalink Maestro works with some European and US cars also. I don't know that there is any kind of standard. I suspect the unit has reversed engineered the canbus messages for the different manufacturers. Before installing the unit you have to program it via usb. They provide software for Windows and Mac. You select your vehicle, wiring harness model and head unit model and it programs it appropriately. It also downloads pdfs with instructions for installation including wiring harness connections. For my Mazda no splicing of any of the factory wiring was necessary. For the Subaru I had to splice a single wire for the Starlink (similar to Onstar and not SpaceX Starlink related) unit. 3rd party headhunts from various manufacturers have a port for the iDatalink unit which allows it to integrate with the head unit. Both of mine are Kenwood but I know a few others have support. There are also alternatives to the iDatalink Maestro it is just what I have used.

prmoustache 2y ago

It is not advertised by the car makers but most cars of that era can still be retrofit with dual DIN slots.

wodenokoto 2y ago

> Cars from 2018 and up pretty universally support Carplay, and it's generally quite well integrated into the car's infotainment system. I don't know what cars you drive, but they are not budget or Chinese. I recently rented a bottom-of-the-line Nissan '24 and just getting audio from my iPhone was a struggle - and there was absolutely no Carplay in sight. Most Chinese cars I've rented (all 23 or 24 models) have advertised Carplay, but what they really have is a half-baked phone mirroring, which maybe worked on ios11 or something, but definetely doesn't today.

chgs 2y ago
I rent almost exclusively in the “B” level in the U.K. and have always had CarPlay. Maybe it’s a policy by Enterprise UK. Occasionally I’ve had something like a D or so, or a van, but even the last van I had had CarPlay.
HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
I've got a cheap 2021 Nissan Versa, and it has CarPlay plus a bunch of useful electronics features (front/back proximity detection, auto-dipping headlights, etc).

whoitwas 2y ago

I'm interested in where this data is sourced: "only 21% of people will buy a car without carplay". I find that really hard to believe even if the survey was isolated to SF.

bradfa 2y ago
I am in that 21%. Heck, I would MUCH prefer to buy a car with no touch screens at all. All I want is a decent car ala 2004ish but with modern crash safety and headlights that don’t suck. I do not care about Bluetooth even! I realize I will not be able to buy a car with no screens due to the backup camera rules. But there is actual safety value in that for me so I’m ok with it.
- suprfnk 2y ago
  I agree with the sentiment, but: how do you navigate? Especially to unknown places?
  - bradfa 2y ago
    My phone works great for driving directions. I plug it in and turn up the volume when I'm driving by myself. I plug it in and turn off the volume and give it to another human to tell me what to do when I have passengers I can trust to navigate for me. I only really need to use the phone for navigation like 2 or 3 times per month, at most. My daily commute to the office never has traffic and in nicer weather times I often ride my bike.
JeremyNT 2y ago
I wonder if that assertion is based on new car sales. For example, I wouldn't buy a new car without android auto, because cars with it are readily available and hardly cost anything extra. But if I had say $6k to spend on a used car instead of $20k+ on a new car? Your options are much more limited and the tradeoffs unpalatable. I know I can still put a phone holder in any vehicle and I'm off to the races.

dayvid 2y ago

I spent like $100 to put a large Carplay display in a 2007 beater Honda Accord I bought recently. Much better than my fiance's Mazda system

sedawk 2y ago
Interested in doing this, can you please share the details of the product you purchased?

_yb2s 2y ago

Nowadays there are low cost Chinese kits that directly add AA/Carplay to most of those early integrated systems without even replacing the unit. They’ve reverse engineered the lcd and touch screen interfaces so they can hijack the screen.

spike021 2y ago

My car is from between 2013-2017 and it supports a standard 2-DIN replacement with Apple CarPlay.

bdcravens 2y ago
That's what I did with my 2018 Toyota C-HR. For a time, that same radio was in my wife's 2018 Rav4 and a friend's 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan.

floxy 2y ago

>(for less than they're worth, since only 21% of people will buy a car without carplay!) ...is there a handy list of which models these are? I'm in the market for a used car, and I'm perfectly happy to pay less for something without CarPlay.

bombcar 2y ago
The percentages only apply to new car buyers, in my experience. Once you're in used territory, all bets are off and you'd have to poke around.
- MBCook 2y ago
  The percentage for new car buyers is actually less than 21%.

4rt 2y ago

Porsche has a reasonably priced upgrade path for their head units even in quite old cars which add Carplay. The value is obvious to them - it maintains a high resale value on older vehicles which maintains their higher current sale value. Something I found interesting when I was hacking my VW to add Carplay (without paying £300) was that a ton of manufacturers in the ~2016 era use the exact same head unit and OS but with a different front fascia, different button layout and a relatively advanced UI skinning system. If you can be bothered you can add e.g. Audi track G-sensors to your VW or use a different skin.

_yb2s 2y ago
I think you’re finding “different” car manufacturers using that system because they’re all VW owned brands. You’ll find the rest of the parts on the car are mostly the same also. If you want to annoy an Audi owner, point out which VW model is 95 percent identical… in some cases like the Q7 vs VW Touareg, the VW model is even higher end and nicer.