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I used to be fascinated with Apple but I no longer want anything to do with them. I could care less if my car has Apple or android auto at this point. I would

by xyst 3y ago

I used to be fascinated with Apple but I no longer want anything to do with them. I could care less if my car has Apple or android auto at this point. I would rip it out immediately if it had one. Any always on connectivity would be removed. Car manufacturers are increasingly selling off your private data and leveraging all of these technology upgrades you paid for to do it. As soon as the car is connected to the internet, it’s shipping off your private data and selling it to data brokers. Manufacturers are hiding behind their wall of text called “terms of service” to do so [1] In some cases the manufacturers are reporting your driving history to insurance companies so they can get any reason to bump your rates or deny you coverage . [2] My dream car is now a “dumb” car. Give me a car with a simple backup camera, manual transmission, and regular sized vehicle (no trucks or suvs, fuck that). [1] https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/article... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/14/technology/gm-lexis-nexis-driving-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/14/technology/gm-lexis-nexis...

kernal 3y ago
If you tried to rip out Android Automotive you car probably wouldn't work anymore. But, you would have a dumb car that just wouldn't start.
astrange 3y ago
> In some cases the manufacturers are reporting your driving history to insurance companies so they can get any reason to bump your rates or deny you coverage . [2] Obviously good. Driving is incredibly dangerous to other people and insurance companies are the most motivated to make it safer.
gmadsen 3y ago
kind of funny a back up camera is now considered a "dumb" car feature
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  What metric do you want to use for smart versus dumb? CCTV dates back a hundred years. The vast majority of dumb phones have had cameras since before the advent of the smart phone.
- cbm-vic-20 3y ago
  Back-up cameras have been required on all new vehicles in the US and Canada since 2018.
izacus 3y ago
CarPlay and Android Auto run on your phone and outright prevent the car manufacturer access to data (they only expose the video and audio streams). Whatever data selling is going on it utterly disconnected from those technologie. So what exactly are you ranting about here? Why this rant when you don't seem to know what those technologies are?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ransom1538 3y ago
"Give me a car with a simple backup camera, manual transmission, and regular sized vehicle (no trucks or suvs, fuck that)." Mazda, cx5 <= 2016. Small. Has usb sd, simple knobs, backup camera. It reminds me of when apple removed the escape key, I had to learn how to buy a used mac.
the_snooze 3y ago
I really wanted to like that Mozilla report, but their methods only looked at the privacy policies of cars, not actual software/hardware capabilities in the wild. Let's say I own a Honda C-HR, but don't use the Honda Link app or connect the onboard wifi to a phone hotspot. Does Honda still get remote telematic information from me? Is there a live always-on 4G/5G connection in the car itself? It's unclear.
deanCommie 3y ago
Meanwhile I rented a car last week and experienced Android Auto for the first time (vs just having my phone precariously balanced somewhere in the car, and using it for navigation), and now I never want to go back or buy a car without Android Auto. This isn't meant to be a dig of Apple vs Android - I think I would feel the same about CarPlay if i was on iOS. I think we just value different things. As someone who wants to be able to drive, navigate with google maps, listen to a podcast, and handle incoming messages, but do it safely, these integrations are incredible.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ectospheno 3y ago
Not sure how one could reclaim driving privacy in an age where we have license plate scanners and E-ZPass scanners at places not on toll roads all while you and everyone else drives around with multiple Bluetooth devices turned on. Nothing stopping your car from recording everything anyway and having the dealer just download it each time you have an oil change. This mirrors privacy everywhere else. Think this ship already sailed.
xenospn 3y ago
You can very easily buy a dumb car and install aftermarket parts to get the benefit of CarPlay without any of the telemetry.
sovnwnt 3y ago
I actually had a chat with my local MP (Canadian equivalent of Member of House of Representatives) about this. Why can't we stop companies selling our data? You'd think it's easy: --- very clear opt-in method for having your data sold --- rejecting cannot prevent regular use of services --- heavy penalties for breaking these rules Problem is that no politician wants to touch this because --- manufacturers sell data to subsidize the product --- if they can't sell data, costs are going to shoot up --- if they do this in response to a law, they get to raise costs even more because it affects the whole industry at the same time and there's a clear scapegoat Consumers care a LOT more about their cheap, connected devices than their privacy. Because getting by your data like [2] happens to individuals, but costs affect the group. EDIT: To clarify, the MP only suggested that costs would go up and people don't care. The rest is my personal speculation.
Angostura 3y ago
> used to be fascinated with Apple but I no longer want anything to do with them. > I could care less if my car has Apple or android auto at this point. I would rip it out immediately if it had one. Any always on connectivity would be removed. And by 'rip out' you mean "disconnect your phone"
Arcsech 3y ago
I don't disagree with your points about connected cars, but at least for CarPlay (I don't know about Android Auto), it's entirely an orthogonal concern. CarPlay is a standard for, basically, connecting an external display to your iPhone - it doesn't need to connect to anything other than the iPhone itself, and doesn't grant the car any access to the internet or anything, and IIRC the phone can't read anything meaningful from the car either.
kelnos 3y ago
It's a shame, because a lot of this connected stuff does provide useful functionality to a lot of people. I'd much rather see stronger privacy legislation that bars companies from selling your data to third parties -- period, no exceptions, no opt-in terms that offer customers more features or services if they'll agree to privacy violations. And then actual enforcement, with fines high enough that they can't just be shrugged off as the cost of doing business. While I don't think we'll ever get quite there, I do think we're going to be moving in that direction. I do have a car with connected features, and I live in California, and I've already instructed them that they may not sell my data to third parties. I don't know if they actually follow the law on that, but it's a start.

by xyst 3y ago

kernal 3y ago

If you tried to rip out Android Automotive you car probably wouldn't work anymore. But, you would have a dumb car that just wouldn't start.

astrange 3y ago

> In some cases the manufacturers are reporting your driving history to insurance companies so they can get any reason to bump your rates or deny you coverage . [2] Obviously good. Driving is incredibly dangerous to other people and insurance companies are the most motivated to make it safer.

gmadsen 3y ago

kind of funny a back up camera is now considered a "dumb" car feature

Dylan16807 3y ago
What metric do you want to use for smart versus dumb? CCTV dates back a hundred years. The vast majority of dumb phones have had cameras since before the advent of the smart phone.
cbm-vic-20 3y ago
Back-up cameras have been required on all new vehicles in the US and Canada since 2018.

izacus 3y ago

CarPlay and Android Auto run on your phone and outright prevent the car manufacturer access to data (they only expose the video and audio streams). Whatever data selling is going on it utterly disconnected from those technologie. So what exactly are you ranting about here? Why this rant when you don't seem to know what those technologies are?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ransom1538 3y ago

"Give me a car with a simple backup camera, manual transmission, and regular sized vehicle (no trucks or suvs, fuck that)." Mazda, cx5 <= 2016. Small. Has usb sd, simple knobs, backup camera. It reminds me of when apple removed the escape key, I had to learn how to buy a used mac.

the_snooze 3y ago

I really wanted to like that Mozilla report, but their methods only looked at the privacy policies of cars, not actual software/hardware capabilities in the wild. Let's say I own a Honda C-HR, but don't use the Honda Link app or connect the onboard wifi to a phone hotspot. Does Honda still get remote telematic information from me? Is there a live always-on 4G/5G connection in the car itself? It's unclear.

deanCommie 3y ago

Meanwhile I rented a car last week and experienced Android Auto for the first time (vs just having my phone precariously balanced somewhere in the car, and using it for navigation), and now I never want to go back or buy a car without Android Auto. This isn't meant to be a dig of Apple vs Android - I think I would feel the same about CarPlay if i was on iOS. I think we just value different things. As someone who wants to be able to drive, navigate with google maps, listen to a podcast, and handle incoming messages, but do it safely, these integrations are incredible.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ectospheno 3y ago

Not sure how one could reclaim driving privacy in an age where we have license plate scanners and E-ZPass scanners at places not on toll roads all while you and everyone else drives around with multiple Bluetooth devices turned on. Nothing stopping your car from recording everything anyway and having the dealer just download it each time you have an oil change. This mirrors privacy everywhere else. Think this ship already sailed.

xenospn 3y ago

You can very easily buy a dumb car and install aftermarket parts to get the benefit of CarPlay without any of the telemetry.

sovnwnt 3y ago

I actually had a chat with my local MP (Canadian equivalent of Member of House of Representatives) about this. Why can't we stop companies selling our data? You'd think it's easy: --- very clear opt-in method for having your data sold --- rejecting cannot prevent regular use of services --- heavy penalties for breaking these rules Problem is that no politician wants to touch this because --- manufacturers sell data to subsidize the product --- if they can't sell data, costs are going to shoot up --- if they do this in response to a law, they get to raise costs even more because it affects the whole industry at the same time and there's a clear scapegoat Consumers care a LOT more about their cheap, connected devices than their privacy. Because getting by your data like [2] happens to individuals, but costs affect the group. EDIT: To clarify, the MP only suggested that costs would go up and people don't care. The rest is my personal speculation.

Angostura 3y ago

> used to be fascinated with Apple but I no longer want anything to do with them. > I could care less if my car has Apple or android auto at this point. I would rip it out immediately if it had one. Any always on connectivity would be removed. And by 'rip out' you mean "disconnect your phone"

Arcsech 3y ago

I don't disagree with your points about connected cars, but at least for CarPlay (I don't know about Android Auto), it's entirely an orthogonal concern. CarPlay is a standard for, basically, connecting an external display to your iPhone - it doesn't need to connect to anything other than the iPhone itself, and doesn't grant the car any access to the internet or anything, and IIRC the phone can't read anything meaningful from the car either.

kelnos 3y ago

It's a shame, because a lot of this connected stuff does provide useful functionality to a lot of people. I'd much rather see stronger privacy legislation that bars companies from selling your data to third parties -- period, no exceptions, no opt-in terms that offer customers more features or services if they'll agree to privacy violations. And then actual enforcement, with fines high enough that they can't just be shrugged off as the cost of doing business. While I don't think we'll ever get quite there, I do think we're going to be moving in that direction. I do have a car with connected features, and I live in California, and I've already instructed them that they may not sell my data to third parties. I don't know if they actually follow the law on that, but it's a start.