10 ms·
Apple design chief Jonathan Ive is knighted
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- sgt 14y agoThis whole knighting business is a bit dubious if you ask me, however if anyone deserves it, I think Jonathan is one of them. He's really achieved so much and inspired millions of people, whether that inspiration came directly or indirectly.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y agoDubious? What's dubious about nationally recognising one person's achievements? Britain is hardly the only country to do it, anyway.
- unwind 14y agoI can't speak for the grandparent, but one obvious thing is of course that being knighted seems to bring with it "more" respect from people, automatically (being addressed as Sir, for instance). This is not very compatible with the idea that all humans have equal value, it's rather the opposite. It's very much a "class society" thing, at least in some respects. Note: I'm not saying I oppose, I'm trying to explain what could be dubious about the concept.
- seanmcdirmid 14y agoThis titling/tradition thing is really what distinguishes the old world (England) from the new world (America); we got rid of that baggage when we got off the Mayflower. But Ives deserved this if anyone did, congrats to him! In America, all we can offer him is some hero worship.
- Mvandenbergh 14y agoTitles didn't disappear from the US until the revolution, hundreds of years after the Mayflower landed.
- astrec 14y agoOr the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the Presidential Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Congressional Silver Medal... etc.
- FuzzyDunlop 14y agoI'm going to play devil's advocate with this one. The title is no different to becoming a Doctor after getting a PhD. Here, you become a Sir after getting a knighthood. It could be said that the PhD title is equally dubious as it also automatically commands more respect. The only difference is they both come before the name and not after (as with MBEs, OBEs, academic qualifications like BSc (Hons), etc.) But anyway, isn't that the purpose of a title?
- kennu 14y agoOn the other hand, nobody is enforcing you to address knights as "Sir", so no freedom is taken away from you. I know many doctors but rarely address them as "Dr"..
- arethuza 14y ago'It's very much a "class society" thing' Given that knighthoods are usually handed out based on merit I think that's pretty much the opposite of the UK class system (which is not based primarily on wealth and therefore doesn't have an implicit link to merit).
- sambeau 14y agoCough. Splutter. While the lower orders of knights are generally given out on merit the higher orders are not. At least as far as I'm concerned. The UK Class System is inherently based on a pecking order and the top of the pecking chain is kept for those who are more anointed than useful. Take a look at this list. It is two orders higher than most Knights (and therefore two orders more special). Are they two orders more deserving? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Victorian_Order http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Victorian_Order
- arethuza 14y agoI guess my comment (note the "mostly") was based on the assumption that more of the bog standard knighthoods are handed out rather than the fancy ones.
- excuse-me 14y agoThat's the problem - it's mostly a "jobs for the boys" Almost all the civil service above a certain rank get knighted same with the armed forces and retired politicians. They throw in a few show biz celebs and the occasional worker. It would probably better if the system was a sort of "living blue plaque". There are people who have genuinely made the country a better place, either in business, arts, science etc - they should get recognition above those who simply became a permanent secretary.
- tomjakubowski 14y agoWealth implies merit? Have you been asleep the past three or four years?
- ticks 14y agoI find the "Sir" part to be the most interesting... you get a hint of how subserviently someone views the world by their use of "Sir" when describing a knight. That said, I like the tradition. It's good to reward people for hard work, especially for the non-celebrities who rarely see the limelight.
- mibbitier 14y ago> "all humans have equal value" That's because they don't. Pretending all humans have equal value is insane, and stupid. This is why we have pass rates of 97%+ in school exams. Because of loonies who refuse to acknowledge that people are different, and have different strengths and weaknesses.
- why-el 14y agoI think parent is referring to the human value, i.e. the value of being human.
- sparknlaunch12 14y agoAnother great achievement and recognition. Interesting how he worked as a consultant to Apple, eventually becoming a full time employee. A knighthood is a special title but has been handed out to some dubious characters in the past... Goodwin, Mugabe. Not taking anything away from Ive.
- arethuza 14y agoAt least Fred's title was taken away: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16821650 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16821650
- JonnieCache 14y agoThat was an insult to the people of britain and the world, a silly little dance to try and placate us. The worst kind of political manoeuvring, and typical of the ex PR men who "lead" us. The guy should be in the dock.
- arethuza 14y ago"The guy should be in the dock" While I am no fan of ex-Sir Fred I'm struggling to think of what criminal offence he should be charged with.
- JonnieCache 14y agoSome sort of professional negligence. Many other people should have been charged as well. It may well be true that there is no specific law he has broken, that's part of what I'm raging against. I accept that the post-80s regime of light-touch regulation means that these people were basically doing what they were supposed to be doing, and that kinda makes it impossible to punish them.
- jacquesm 14y agoKnighthoods derive from Royalty and as such I'm categorically against them. I'll never be offered one but if that were the case I'd refuse on the grounds that by accepting I would implicitly recognize the fact that there are more than one kinds of people. But good for Jonathan Ive that his contributions are recognized, too many people like that never get any recognition at all so from that point of view this is positive.
- jkn 14y agoSincere curiosity: are you, on the same grounds, against citizenship? Edit: to clarify, I mean against citizenship as a birthright.
- jacquesm 14y agoYes, unfortunately I get one imposed on me. It is as though through the simple act of being born I'm signatory party to some contract that I have never even been allowed to read and for which there was no negotiation possible. Without having a nationality suddenly a lot of things are no longer possible (such as travel or residency). I have no right to a pension but pay in to them, my children are not in any way subsidized by state sponsorships for parents with children ("kinderbijslag" it is called here), but I do pay my taxes and so on. I opt out to the point that I'm able to but that doesn't go nearly far enough. I still think there is a net positive effect, even if that same effect might be achievable by some other means. I'm not an anarchist, I just don't believe that there is a good reason for nation states and such because in general they are just used as vehicles to control people or to motivate them to do bad things rather than to provide them with services that are for the common good. In that sense they are like democracy, it's what we've got because we have nothing better but there are plenty of warts and issues with the concept. Probably my views are pretty extremist but having seen a lot of misery in people close to me grounded in nationality it is an easy one to come by. For me nationality/citizenship is a matter of choosing the least bad option, not the best. We have nothing better so this is what I'll have to live with, it's like the weather, I am incapable of making significant change so I make the best of it.
- 14y ago
- peterjs 14y agoWell, at least I learned that the Queen has a daughter. Is she a household name outside of the UK?
- JonnieCache 14y agoShe's not even a household name in the UK. In general, the rest of the world is far more interested in the british royal family than the british.
- estel 14y agoReally? Whilst noone would talk ever talk or gossip about her engagements, I'd like to think that most people are at least aware of her existence; particularly given her competing in the Olympics and huge visibility as Britain's IOC representative and huge visibility in the run-up to this year's games.
- JonnieCache 14y agoGo out onto the streets of britain and ask people who princess anne is. I seriously doubt you'll get a good rate of correct answers, especially if you ask people under 50. There are so many minor royals, and their lives form such a complex soap opera, it's very easy for them all to blend into one if you don't actually follow it, which very few people do.
- bborud 14y agoI now expect him to commute to work on a horse. Wearing a suit of armor.
- saddino 14y ago"This seamless armor, is stunningly beautiful and perfectly smooth. It feels like cool liquid to the touch. It is also, incredibly strong. It's a fantastic fusion of design and function."
- excuse-me 14y agoBut unfortunately only works on iHorses which are much smaller and slower than regular horses while being a lot more expensive.
- zerostar07 14y agoUnibody Aluminum Armor; No edges, no stitching; taken off with the press of the (only) button. Magical(R). Touch-sensitive shield with reinforced glass finishing that no amount of multi-touching can break. Sword with rounded-corners (that one's a bummer but it looks beautiful). Optional aluminum quiver that accomodates 20 iArrows. Stunning design. Free stickers.
- rajdevar 14y agoHow many times will he gets Knighted? IPod is his sword,Ipad his shield,Mac his armour :-)
- reason 14y agoCongratulations to him! Although people will often credit Jobs with the creation of Apple's products, it's great that Jony is getting recognition here. I can't even imagine the amount of time and effort he and his team must've put in to developing their designs. With the industrial design of products like the iPhone or MacBook, every single dimension must be precisely calculated. There's no "eh, it's a bit off, but that'll do" like what we may do with web apps. The number of concepts and iterations they must've gone through is staggering, I'm sure. Edit: It's sad to see only two other commenters recognizing Ive's achievements. It seems now that almost every single accomplishment posted to HN is questioned, overanalyzed and criticized out of what is likely a place of envy. We don't need your commentary on the social ramifications of knighthoods. If that's your reaction to a post like this, then you need to seriously reassess your perspective.
- JonnieCache 14y agoI would argue the exact opposite: celebration of apple and their achievements is a subject that has been done to death on here and elsewhere. Everyone here takes Ive's achievements as a given. Discussion of the social ramifications of knighthoods is likely to be much more fruitful. It certainly seems that way from this instance.
- reason 14y agoThis isn't about Apple, though. This is about Jony Ive. And although people here might know who he is and what influence he's had over the years with creating such iconic designs, I highly doubt that the every day person on the street knows. This is simply about him gaining public recognition. Nothing more.
- why-el 14y agoI am having a hard time finding a comment on this thread criticizing Mr. Ive's achievements.
- Tyrannosaurs 14y agoA couple of things to note about Jony Ive. One, he's from Chingford, a painfully unfashionable suburb of London in Essex, the brunt of most geographically targeted UK humour. And two: he studied at Newcastle Polytechnic (as I believe it was then), about as far as you can get from the hallowed halls of Oxford and Cambridge (both physically and metaphorically) whilst still staying in higher education in the UK. In short - it's not where you come from, it's what you do.
- huhtenberg 14y agoI think Knighthood benefited from this more than Jonathan.
- zerostar07 14y agoHooray for the Aluminum Knight. The rounded rectangles of the universe salute you.