4 ms·

So all that's required would then just be to outsource it to a bunch of companies who then outsource it and then claim you have: "no knowledge"? You're the one

So all that's required would then just be to outsource it to a bunch of companies who then outsource it and then claim you have: "no knowledge"? You're the one outsourcing, so it's your responsibility. The entire chain.

1123581321 3y ago
Yes, of course, but I was asking what level of due diligence is expected to verify that the chain does not violate sanctions. In other words, when a problem like this is discovered, the US State Department will assign more blame to the company if their attempts to avoid violating sanctions fell below a threshold; what is that threshold for the arts industry.
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  > Yes, of course, but I was asking what level of due diligence is expected to verify that the chain does not violate sanctions. The same as you were employing them directly.
- StressedDev 3y ago
  You should ask a qualified lawyer. No one on this forum is going to know the right answer.
toasterlovin 3y ago
Yeah, but "outsource it to a bunch of companies who then outsource it" is literally how the economy works. The most mundane product you can imagine has a network of upstream suppliers that is essentially incomprehensible in its complexity.
- mhsred5 3y ago
  At some point maybe stop outsourcing and just do the work. Boeing used to make airplanes. Now they outsource the work of "make the airplanes" and all it cost them was their reputation. Less outsourcing, more just doing the work please.
  - johngladtj 3y ago
    Ok, so you expect the airline to mine the ore to make the tools needed to mine the ore needed to make the aluminum used in the packaging of the snacks they give out on board? Think about exactly where this ends.
    - jsiepkes 3y ago
      There is a difference between ordering specialist work (i.e. someone makes something to your exact specifications) and buying ore on a global market. But sure, even in case of ore you have a responsibility to make sure it isn't being delved by slave labour.
  - toasterlovin 3y ago
    Even when you “stop outsourcing and just do the work”, you’re just subtracting a ~4 bit integer from a ~16 bit integer.
aembleton 3y ago
Do you have to check just for the product that you're selling or for the inputs into that product? Do you have to check that the tablets, keyboards and mice used by your employees and those of outsourcing companies were not made in North Korea? Do you have to check that the ink used on the keyboards weren't made in North Korea? Do you have to check that the coal for the power station for the keyboard factory didn't come from North Korea?

1123581321 3y ago

Yes, of course, but I was asking what level of due diligence is expected to verify that the chain does not violate sanctions. In other words, when a problem like this is discovered, the US State Department will assign more blame to the company if their attempts to avoid violating sanctions fell below a threshold; what is that threshold for the arts industry.

KptMarchewa 3y ago
> Yes, of course, but I was asking what level of due diligence is expected to verify that the chain does not violate sanctions. The same as you were employing them directly.
StressedDev 3y ago
You should ask a qualified lawyer. No one on this forum is going to know the right answer.

toasterlovin 3y ago

Yeah, but "outsource it to a bunch of companies who then outsource it" is literally how the economy works. The most mundane product you can imagine has a network of upstream suppliers that is essentially incomprehensible in its complexity.

mhsred5 3y ago
At some point maybe stop outsourcing and just do the work. Boeing used to make airplanes. Now they outsource the work of "make the airplanes" and all it cost them was their reputation. Less outsourcing, more just doing the work please.
- johngladtj 3y ago
  Ok, so you expect the airline to mine the ore to make the tools needed to mine the ore needed to make the aluminum used in the packaging of the snacks they give out on board? Think about exactly where this ends.
  - jsiepkes 3y ago
    There is a difference between ordering specialist work (i.e. someone makes something to your exact specifications) and buying ore on a global market. But sure, even in case of ore you have a responsibility to make sure it isn't being delved by slave labour.
- toasterlovin 3y ago
  Even when you “stop outsourcing and just do the work”, you’re just subtracting a ~4 bit integer from a ~16 bit integer.

aembleton 3y ago

Do you have to check just for the product that you're selling or for the inputs into that product? Do you have to check that the tablets, keyboards and mice used by your employees and those of outsourcing companies were not made in North Korea? Do you have to check that the ink used on the keyboards weren't made in North Korea? Do you have to check that the coal for the power station for the keyboard factory didn't come from North Korea?