5 ms·

'As the appeal of “solid” living is waning...' Is it the appeal of it that's waning, or is it increasingly clear that there will be a generation or two for whi

by corry 2y ago

'As the appeal of “solid” living is waning...' Is it the appeal of it that's waning, or is it increasingly clear that there will be a generation or two for which 'solidity' is simply out of reach? So what do you do? Grin and bear it? Hope for a quick improvement to a problem decades in the making? A common view among Gen Z or younger Millennials I know is that not only will you have a lower quality of life than your parents (and your kids probably will too), you'll have a lower quality of life even to elder Millennials (who happened to enter the housing market 5 years earlier than you). So, you can either have a severely hampered life here in Canada (due to cost of housing and general COL), where you just kind of scrape by and try to emulate everything you've seen growing up but without any flexibility or safety net... or you can roll the dice and do something more adventurous, like move out to a rural setting in the US, or go further abroad on an adventure. The article mentions this dynamic but strangely seems to position it as a lifestyle 'choice' akin to whether or not you like riding bikes or rock climbing. Also, you can't help but cringe at the conclusion saying this is an "opportunity" for "brands" to capitalize on. Great, what an important silver lining!

SamBam 2y ago
> Great, what an important silver lining! What's the audience for the Harvard Business Review?
- corry 2y ago
  Haha, great point, my bad :)
jajko 2y ago
This is bubble thinking/feeling, sure in bubbles like SF or some mega cities this can and is happening to some extent, but world as a whole keeps going and doesn't stop. For every vocal digital nomad there are 100 folks in same industry who just settle, which can mean a lot of things, not just stereotypical US version "I must own my house or I am a complete loser" (which btw ain't true in any meaningful way and doesn't bring any form of long term satisfaction or happiness, but thats for longer discussion). Even generation ago there were generally exactly same issues for exactly same limited resources like housing, people just got a grip and worked on their goals instead of endlessly complaining how life is unfair specifically to them that they don't have fully paid mortgage by 35 and retire at 50. I know tons and tons of young people very capable and eager to work in stable corporate environments, way more than I experienced in my days, you just have to zoom out a bit. But this mundane truth doesn't fit popular negative narrative so popular also here with these topics. Adventures and this are not mutually exclusive, sabbaticals are often used for anything between 3-24 months. If you can't cover the scratch even in 2 years, yeah this ain't life for you (which is an important discovery of course, the sooner it happens the better, but comparably very few find nomading say after 40 as something great). I've done my share of longer term backpacking mostly in Himalaya, but have it as a long term lifestyle? No thank you, prefer weekend adventuring and raising kids someplace more safe and stable, being close to say tropical beach ain't the most important QOL item on my list.
kleiba 2y ago
I'm certainly not Gen Z or a Millenial, but I do not subscribe to the notion that solidity or the quality of life your parents have experiences is unachievable for today's generation any more. There are tons of things that are much better in today's life when compared to a generation ago. Everything always changes, but it's usually that some things get better and others get worse. On average, though, we're still on an upward slope, if you ask me.
- ddorian43 2y ago
  But he is in Canada. The wages suck, real estate is insane, taxes are high.
  - kleiba 2y ago
    Well, what could his parents afford when they were his age? Also, check out how many North American places are mentioned in this list: https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cost-and-affordability-of-homes-around-the-world#gid=ci02b87d3ae00027d5&pid=moscow-sh https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cost-and-affordab...
    - corry 2y ago
      Sorry for the TikTok link [1], but worth seeing this animation of income to housing price since the 1980s. To make matters worse, what's not shown is also the rising tax on that income. Then factor in student debt, which is not as severe as the US but is a big drain. Then factor in the record levels of immigration of the last 5 years or so. Of course offsetting all of this are other big improvements in QoL - better medicine, healthcare, etc. Also, while interest rates are high compared to last 10 years, historically they aren't crazy. But even 'not crazy' interest rates vs. this disparity in income vs housing prices. So definite 'agreed' to you and the other posters who brought up it's not a single-variable issue. But seeing this, and having a remote-friendly job, wouldn't you rather go live on a beach in Costa Rica for a few years? [1] https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeautyofdata/video/7314767397624352032?lang=en https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeautyofdata/video/73147673976243...
dionidium 2y ago
> A common view among Gen Z or younger Millennials I know is that not only will you have a lower quality of life than your parents (and your kids probably will too), you'll have a lower quality of life even to elder Millennials (who happened to enter the housing market 5 years earlier than you). This meme has reached the level of conventional wisdom, so any response feels a bit like trying to empty the Atlantic Ocean with a thimble, but the evidence that Gen Z and Millennials are in any way materially worse off than their parents is very weak. They are, in fact, doing quite well: https://twitter.com/johanknorberg/status/1780638119156408480 https://twitter.com/johanknorberg/status/1780638119156408480 https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/04/16/generation-z-is-unprecedentedly-rich https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/04/16/g... And that's before we account for the truly massive and unprecedented wealth transfer that's about to happen when the Boomers really start dying in big numbers. When it's all said and done Millennials are going to be the richest generation of all time and still talking about how uniquely bad they have it, which I guess is the most Millennial thing imaginable.
- Qworg 2y ago
  I don't get the Economist, but I'm wondering how bimodal the distribution is - are we seeing a small cohort run away with the game or is everyone better off?
  - Izkata 2y ago
    With where I am compared to family, that's my bet - people doing absurdly well in tech are screwing up the numbers. And I'm not even close to what some people casually toss out on here.
  - dionidium 2y ago
    These are medians.
- square_usual 2y ago
  You can make more money and still have lower QOL because of higher COL - like with housing prices, which have shot up much more than incomes have.
UncleOxidant 2y ago
> where you just kind of scrape by and try to emulate everything you've seen growing up but without any flexibility or safety net... or you can roll the dice and do something more adventurous, like move out to a rural setting in the US, Isn't there a lot more safety net in Canada than the US (especially rural US)? At least you get healthcare covered in Canada - you'd be on your own here.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

by corry 2y ago

SamBam 2y ago

> Great, what an important silver lining! What's the audience for the Harvard Business Review?

corry 2y ago
Haha, great point, my bad :)

jajko 2y ago

This is bubble thinking/feeling, sure in bubbles like SF or some mega cities this can and is happening to some extent, but world as a whole keeps going and doesn't stop. For every vocal digital nomad there are 100 folks in same industry who just settle, which can mean a lot of things, not just stereotypical US version "I must own my house or I am a complete loser" (which btw ain't true in any meaningful way and doesn't bring any form of long term satisfaction or happiness, but thats for longer discussion). Even generation ago there were generally exactly same issues for exactly same limited resources like housing, people just got a grip and worked on their goals instead of endlessly complaining how life is unfair specifically to them that they don't have fully paid mortgage by 35 and retire at 50. I know tons and tons of young people very capable and eager to work in stable corporate environments, way more than I experienced in my days, you just have to zoom out a bit. But this mundane truth doesn't fit popular negative narrative so popular also here with these topics. Adventures and this are not mutually exclusive, sabbaticals are often used for anything between 3-24 months. If you can't cover the scratch even in 2 years, yeah this ain't life for you (which is an important discovery of course, the sooner it happens the better, but comparably very few find nomading say after 40 as something great). I've done my share of longer term backpacking mostly in Himalaya, but have it as a long term lifestyle? No thank you, prefer weekend adventuring and raising kids someplace more safe and stable, being close to say tropical beach ain't the most important QOL item on my list.

kleiba 2y ago

I'm certainly not Gen Z or a Millenial, but I do not subscribe to the notion that solidity or the quality of life your parents have experiences is unachievable for today's generation any more. There are tons of things that are much better in today's life when compared to a generation ago. Everything always changes, but it's usually that some things get better and others get worse. On average, though, we're still on an upward slope, if you ask me.

ddorian43 2y ago
But he is in Canada. The wages suck, real estate is insane, taxes are high.
- kleiba 2y ago
  Well, what could his parents afford when they were his age? Also, check out how many North American places are mentioned in this list: https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cost-and-affordability-of-homes-around-the-world#gid=ci02b87d3ae00027d5&pid=moscow-sh https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cost-and-affordab...
  - corry 2y ago
    Sorry for the TikTok link [1], but worth seeing this animation of income to housing price since the 1980s. To make matters worse, what's not shown is also the rising tax on that income. Then factor in student debt, which is not as severe as the US but is a big drain. Then factor in the record levels of immigration of the last 5 years or so. Of course offsetting all of this are other big improvements in QoL - better medicine, healthcare, etc. Also, while interest rates are high compared to last 10 years, historically they aren't crazy. But even 'not crazy' interest rates vs. this disparity in income vs housing prices. So definite 'agreed' to you and the other posters who brought up it's not a single-variable issue. But seeing this, and having a remote-friendly job, wouldn't you rather go live on a beach in Costa Rica for a few years? [1] https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeautyofdata/video/7314767397624352032?lang=en https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeautyofdata/video/73147673976243...

dionidium 2y ago

> A common view among Gen Z or younger Millennials I know is that not only will you have a lower quality of life than your parents (and your kids probably will too), you'll have a lower quality of life even to elder Millennials (who happened to enter the housing market 5 years earlier than you). This meme has reached the level of conventional wisdom, so any response feels a bit like trying to empty the Atlantic Ocean with a thimble, but the evidence that Gen Z and Millennials are in any way materially worse off than their parents is very weak. They are, in fact, doing quite well: https://twitter.com/johanknorberg/status/1780638119156408480 https://twitter.com/johanknorberg/status/1780638119156408480 https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/04/16/generation-z-is-unprecedentedly-rich https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/04/16/g... And that's before we account for the truly massive and unprecedented wealth transfer that's about to happen when the Boomers really start dying in big numbers. When it's all said and done Millennials are going to be the richest generation of all time and still talking about how uniquely bad they have it, which I guess is the most Millennial thing imaginable.

Qworg 2y ago
I don't get the Economist, but I'm wondering how bimodal the distribution is - are we seeing a small cohort run away with the game or is everyone better off?
- Izkata 2y ago
  With where I am compared to family, that's my bet - people doing absurdly well in tech are screwing up the numbers. And I'm not even close to what some people casually toss out on here.
- dionidium 2y ago
  These are medians.
square_usual 2y ago
You can make more money and still have lower QOL because of higher COL - like with housing prices, which have shot up much more than incomes have.

UncleOxidant 2y ago

> where you just kind of scrape by and try to emulate everything you've seen growing up but without any flexibility or safety net... or you can roll the dice and do something more adventurous, like move out to a rural setting in the US, Isn't there a lot more safety net in Canada than the US (especially rural US)? At least you get healthcare covered in Canada - you'd be on your own here.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]