6 ms·

Having a personal computer at home was a game-changer, though. "The Metaverse" has been around for a couple years now, and yet consumer VR (which has been aroun

by AzzyHN 2y ago

Having a personal computer at home was a game-changer, though. "The Metaverse" has been around for a couple years now, and yet consumer VR (which has been around for eight years now) is still just a "gimmick", rather than a must-have. The IBM Personal Computer released in 1981. By 1989... yeah. iPhone came out in 2007. By 2015, smartphones ruled the world.

rvba 2y ago
IMHO when you talk about PCs "becoming the big thing" - it is more Windows 95 time. In 1989 market was still fragmented and PCs were weak (286, amiga, mac + old 8bits like atari and commodore).
throw310822 2y ago
> iPhone came out in 2007. By 2015, smartphones ruled the world. Advanced phones with proper os, apps, camera had been around for years, and personal digital assistants before that. Tablets, too. iPhone got the form factor and ui exactly right and triggered an explosion, but it was far from the first. We might still be in the "smartphone, pre-iPhone" years.
- crowcroft 2y ago
  I don't know what exactly is the right analogy for this, but two other points of context which make me discredit this line of thinking. 1. Feature/smart 'Phones' were around before the iPhone *and* were already pretty much ubiquitous. VR headsets don't do much but sit on shelfs (either in people's houses or in distribution centres not being sold). 2. VR has arguably existed in some ways before the Quest, Nintendo Virtual Boy was from the mid-90s. Maybe the iPhone comparison isn't right, but if we're decades into developing this technology and still very early in development I think we should assume we're a LONG way off these things becoming mainstream consumer devices and we should be wary of any company that brings them to the consumer market.
  - ricardobeat 2y ago
    > VR headsets don't do much but sit on shelfs (sic) Quest has 6+ million monthly active users. Steam 2-3 million. Sony doesn't publish numbers but a good guess is 3-4 million active players. If you allow for some overlap, that's roughly ten million monthly users, and in sales VR is already more successful than a lot of computer platforms of the past.
    - herculity275 2y ago
      > Sony doesn't publish numbers but a good guess is 3-4 million active players. I find it really hard to believe that 3 million people put on PSVR2 every month. That thing gets basically no content.
    - crowcroft 2y ago
      Yea it’s not nothing, but that’s a rounding error on the number of smartphone users.
    - Seb-C 2y ago
      > Quest has 6+ million monthly active users. Steam 2-3 million. There is no way that those numbers are right. EDIT: Yeah, Steam has 120 million active users per month. And the 6+ million users for Quest is from 2022, during the pandemic and metaverse bubble. Would be curious to know the trends for 2023 and 2024 thought.
      - stubish 2y ago
        That would be SteamVR being discussed.
mnahkies 2y ago
Before the iPhone we had palm pilots, blackberries, etc. I prefer to think of it as consumer VR simply hasn't had its iPhone moment yet
- baby 2y ago
  It’s crazy because if you try the Quest it’s quite insane how good it is already. If I were to guess what could give it an iPhone moment: - lighter/more comfortable - faster to get started when you put the headset on - more social experiences and event organized in VR - shorter time from headset on to hanging out with your friends in VR A number of years ago I convinced a bunch of my friends to buy the Quest after being blown away by board games in VR, but turns out Catan only worked for the Go and it was a lot of work to do something together in VR. IMO there needs to be some sort of lobby that does not take you away from hanging out with your friends when you’re in between games. I should be able to easily join a lobby or pause a game to go to a lobby and wave at my friend who’s playing to pause and join me in the lobby
  - jimmySixDOF 2y ago
    There is a nee version of Catan for Quest 2/3
    - imzadi 2y ago
      There is, but it is kind of crappy. It's crossplay, but not in a meaningful way. You can't create a room and share a room code. The best you can do is invite a friend, but only if they are on the same platform. They've never done anything to improve it or make it more player friendly. They released it and forgot about it.
  - Capricorn2481 2y ago
    > - lighter/more comfortable It's this and one other point: Games that people aren't bored of in an hour. To me, very few games have come out for VR that don't feel like gimmicky experiences. Even Half Life Alyx, as advanced as it was, kinda felt like a theme park ride after a while. I'm not sure if there's technical reasons for it, but it feels like nobody is taking VR development seriously. It's hard to justify strapping a TV to my face and feeling uncomfortable for one-off experiences. Even if there was a game with some depth and replayability, I would be even more annoyed to play it on such an uncomfortable headset. Almost everyone I know is not using their VR headset anymore. I'm not sure it will ever move past that phase, because people want it to be smaller and, simultaneously, more technically immersive. So we're in some weird in between zone where it's neither.
TulliusCicero 2y ago
VR headsets can be fun for some games, but the hardware and software still have a lot of maturing to do, it's not like smartphones where it feels very developed and there's not much more room for obvious growth/improvement.
- MyFirstSass 2y ago
  Yesterday i was close to buying a Pico 4 (Cheaper non meta Quest 3 equivalent), then i realised there has been zero fully triple a games since my friend blew me away with a Half Life Alyx demo 4 years ago. I find it incredible there's still only 1 actual "serious" VR game - lots of people then recommended Skyrim VR, a game from 2011. Is VR gaming in an absolute standstill?
  - TulliusCicero 2y ago
    It's not at all, no. There's plenty of compelling games, there just aren't any AAA games (not ones built for VR only anyway) because the market simply isn't big enough to justify the incredible production costs. If you're dead set on only AAA games then yeah, it's not a useful purchase, but that doesn't mean it's "standing still".
  - jamilton 2y ago
    I think there are few to zero new AAA games, but I don't think that means VR gaming is at a standstill, or that there are no great, fun games.
  - numpad0 2y ago
    Yes. Meanwhile:[0] 0: https://medium.com/@nemchan_nel/vrchat-breaks-records-with-92-000-simultaneous-users-9464a33f3561 https://medium.com/@nemchan_nel/vrchat-breaks-records-with-9...

by AzzyHN 2y ago

rvba 2y ago

IMHO when you talk about PCs "becoming the big thing" - it is more Windows 95 time. In 1989 market was still fragmented and PCs were weak (286, amiga, mac + old 8bits like atari and commodore).

throw310822 2y ago

> iPhone came out in 2007. By 2015, smartphones ruled the world. Advanced phones with proper os, apps, camera had been around for years, and personal digital assistants before that. Tablets, too. iPhone got the form factor and ui exactly right and triggered an explosion, but it was far from the first. We might still be in the "smartphone, pre-iPhone" years.

crowcroft 2y ago
I don't know what exactly is the right analogy for this, but two other points of context which make me discredit this line of thinking. 1. Feature/smart 'Phones' were around before the iPhone *and* were already pretty much ubiquitous. VR headsets don't do much but sit on shelfs (either in people's houses or in distribution centres not being sold). 2. VR has arguably existed in some ways before the Quest, Nintendo Virtual Boy was from the mid-90s. Maybe the iPhone comparison isn't right, but if we're decades into developing this technology and still very early in development I think we should assume we're a LONG way off these things becoming mainstream consumer devices and we should be wary of any company that brings them to the consumer market.
- ricardobeat 2y ago
  > VR headsets don't do much but sit on shelfs (sic) Quest has 6+ million monthly active users. Steam 2-3 million. Sony doesn't publish numbers but a good guess is 3-4 million active players. If you allow for some overlap, that's roughly ten million monthly users, and in sales VR is already more successful than a lot of computer platforms of the past.
  - herculity275 2y ago
    > Sony doesn't publish numbers but a good guess is 3-4 million active players. I find it really hard to believe that 3 million people put on PSVR2 every month. That thing gets basically no content.
  - crowcroft 2y ago
    Yea it’s not nothing, but that’s a rounding error on the number of smartphone users.
  - Seb-C 2y ago
    > Quest has 6+ million monthly active users. Steam 2-3 million. There is no way that those numbers are right. EDIT: Yeah, Steam has 120 million active users per month. And the 6+ million users for Quest is from 2022, during the pandemic and metaverse bubble. Would be curious to know the trends for 2023 and 2024 thought.
    - stubish 2y ago
      That would be SteamVR being discussed.

mnahkies 2y ago

Before the iPhone we had palm pilots, blackberries, etc. I prefer to think of it as consumer VR simply hasn't had its iPhone moment yet

baby 2y ago
It’s crazy because if you try the Quest it’s quite insane how good it is already. If I were to guess what could give it an iPhone moment: - lighter/more comfortable - faster to get started when you put the headset on - more social experiences and event organized in VR - shorter time from headset on to hanging out with your friends in VR A number of years ago I convinced a bunch of my friends to buy the Quest after being blown away by board games in VR, but turns out Catan only worked for the Go and it was a lot of work to do something together in VR. IMO there needs to be some sort of lobby that does not take you away from hanging out with your friends when you’re in between games. I should be able to easily join a lobby or pause a game to go to a lobby and wave at my friend who’s playing to pause and join me in the lobby
- jimmySixDOF 2y ago
  There is a nee version of Catan for Quest 2/3
  - imzadi 2y ago
    There is, but it is kind of crappy. It's crossplay, but not in a meaningful way. You can't create a room and share a room code. The best you can do is invite a friend, but only if they are on the same platform. They've never done anything to improve it or make it more player friendly. They released it and forgot about it.
- Capricorn2481 2y ago
  > - lighter/more comfortable It's this and one other point: Games that people aren't bored of in an hour. To me, very few games have come out for VR that don't feel like gimmicky experiences. Even Half Life Alyx, as advanced as it was, kinda felt like a theme park ride after a while. I'm not sure if there's technical reasons for it, but it feels like nobody is taking VR development seriously. It's hard to justify strapping a TV to my face and feeling uncomfortable for one-off experiences. Even if there was a game with some depth and replayability, I would be even more annoyed to play it on such an uncomfortable headset. Almost everyone I know is not using their VR headset anymore. I'm not sure it will ever move past that phase, because people want it to be smaller and, simultaneously, more technically immersive. So we're in some weird in between zone where it's neither.

TulliusCicero 2y ago

VR headsets can be fun for some games, but the hardware and software still have a lot of maturing to do, it's not like smartphones where it feels very developed and there's not much more room for obvious growth/improvement.

MyFirstSass 2y ago
Yesterday i was close to buying a Pico 4 (Cheaper non meta Quest 3 equivalent), then i realised there has been zero fully triple a games since my friend blew me away with a Half Life Alyx demo 4 years ago. I find it incredible there's still only 1 actual "serious" VR game - lots of people then recommended Skyrim VR, a game from 2011. Is VR gaming in an absolute standstill?
- TulliusCicero 2y ago
  It's not at all, no. There's plenty of compelling games, there just aren't any AAA games (not ones built for VR only anyway) because the market simply isn't big enough to justify the incredible production costs. If you're dead set on only AAA games then yeah, it's not a useful purchase, but that doesn't mean it's "standing still".
- jamilton 2y ago
  I think there are few to zero new AAA games, but I don't think that means VR gaming is at a standstill, or that there are no great, fun games.
- numpad0 2y ago
  Yes. Meanwhile:[0] 0: https://medium.com/@nemchan_nel/vrchat-breaks-records-with-92-000-simultaneous-users-9464a33f3561 https://medium.com/@nemchan_nel/vrchat-breaks-records-with-9...