7 ms·

Chinese students in US tell of 'chilling' interrogations and deportations

44 points by nkurz 3y ago

zer00eyz 3y ago
I dont even know where to start with this article. They added in the wif of racism with the covid tie in just to make it sensational. We do have a score board for this you know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_spy_cases_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_spy_cases_in_t... VS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–2012_killing_of_CIA_sources_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–2012_killing_of_CIA_sourc... Also note, that Americans were getting their shit taken and copied at the border forever. The border being a no rights zone has been an issue that nerds have been vocal about since the days of slashdot... Dont act shocked cause your Chinese and its happening, we do it to our own people too.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  There was a time when I was always getting stopped and interrogated at customs coming into Seattle from Beijing. No one else on the Hainan flight I arrived on mind you, just me…I was the only white guy in the crowd of passengers who looked mostly Chinese also. Pretty sure they were profiling me, maybe they were just more suspicious of Americans?
  - UncleEntity 3y ago
    Drugs... Or you had something unusual going on. They were very concerned when I was trying to fly from Amsterdam to the US on a one way ticket because I had a passport stamp from Iraq which, at the time, was impossible to get unless you were involved with government operations. And this one time I was stopped by Border Patrol at the Phoenix Greyhound station with zero reasonable articulable suspicion as a 30-something white male who, incidentally, lived in Phoenix.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      I was just a techie on a business trip. They were suspicious that my luggage was almost completely empty, because I would fill it up shopping in the states. They would always ask me why I was visiting China and I told them I lived there. Smuggling drugs out of China sounded dumb back then, given how much more Chinese are strict on the issue than the Americans. But with fentanyl today it makes more sense.
      - ifwinterco 3y ago
        Travelling long haul without relatively 'normal' luggage is always going to attract attention
asimpleusecase 3y ago
https://www.voanews.com/amp/us-beijing-aim-to-boost-number-of-american-students-in-china-/7569316.html https://www.voanews.com/amp/us-beijing-aim-to-boost-number-o... These days, only about 700 American students are studying at Chinese universities, down from a peak of close to 25,000 a decade ago, while there are nearly 300,000 Chinese students at U.S. schools. To add just a bit of context. I’m sure that foreign students have no restrictions placed on entry to the country, places visited nor are there any restrictions on topics studied or on publication or research. https://www.voanews.com/amp/british-documentary-alleges-china-influences-universities-spies-on-hong-kongers-in-uk/7379777.html https://www.voanews.com/amp/british-documentary-alleges-chin...
- martindbp 3y ago
  I wonder how much of that is due to Covid, but I remember some stat like the number of people learning Chinese since 2008 was down at least 50% even before Covid, and that includes people studying in their home country.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    The covid response by China's authoritarian dreamers is what did it.
    - martindbp 3y ago
      Yeah, I was there for three months right before the end of restrictions. Not very excited to go back after that.
- throwaway743 3y ago
  VOA being referenced unironically?
- aaron695 3y ago
  > only about 700 American students are studying at Chinese This is ~100% COVID https://www.statista.com/statistics/374169/china-number-of-students-from-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/374169/china-number-of-s... Australia had the same lockdowns as China, but because they had remote learning it didn't change a lot - https://www.statista.com/statistics/430276/number-of-chinese-students-in-australia-by-education-sector/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/430276/number-of-chinese... Education is Australia biggest export after selling their dirt from their massive continent (75% of the USA with 8% of the pop) - https://thekoalanews.com/education-as-an-export-for-australia-2022-23 https://thekoalanews.com/education-as-an-export-for-australi... Why China is allowing it's citizens be propagandized by living their formative years in free democracies is crazy. They should have stopped their students leaving after COVID. We should make the most of Xi mistake, or get ready for war and keep sanctioning them and their products. Just chose a direction.
angry_octet 3y ago
It's surprising how few Chinese people study in America. With a population 1/14th of America, Australia has 150,000 Chinese students. The US entry refusals should be familiar fare to Chinese citizens though, as their Govt employs stochastic enforcement all the time, including for censorship and as part of trade disputes. It sucks for the individuals, but this really isn't about them, it's about the CCP and it's ongoing campaign of industrial espionage and global surveillance. It is likely a number of 'students' were also part of the diaspora surveillance network, routinely reporting back about the behaviour of overseas Chinese citizens and especially minorities.
- powerapple 3y ago
  Australia is full of CCPs, especially corrupted officials, Canada and Australia are popular destinations because it is first world country with immigration policy. (especially their kids don't study well and are spoiled, it is not a problem for Australia apparently) Actually most students go to US are amongst the best students from China, either top students or really hardworking students, and most of them will be excellent engineers and scientists, if US is pushing them away, it is probably good for China.
  - TimJRobinson 3y ago
    Foreign students pay 2-3x as much as Australians do to study in Australia. Allowing rich Chinese children to study abroad contributes a lot to Australia's economy and those high fees subsidise everyone else which allows keeping local tuition low, which is why Australia is so open to them.
    - powerapple 2y ago
      not only students, Australia welcomes every dollar. I don't blame them. It is a beautiful country, and I would go there and live in a mansion if I have enough money. The side effect is the property price will increase, but property owners can make a lot money.
    - fakedang 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
givemeethekeys 3y ago
A border / customs officer in any part of the world is not interested in doing any more work than they absolutely have to. Tell them what they need to hear in order to let you be on your way and everyone will be happier for it.
methuselah_in 3y ago
As open is America with academics and western countries, other countries are just not that open. Until the feeling of grab only and don't give back it's horrible. Take example of Linux just half of developing countries hardly contribute. Best example is aosp. People want to have roms but don't want to pay
- Qem 3y ago
  > Take example of Linux just half of developing countries hardly contribute. It's because Microsoft, a company with headquarters in a developed country, keeps bribing their officials for them to to ignore free software: https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/25/22995144/microsoft-foreign-corrupt-practices-bribery-whistleblower-contracting https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/25/22995144/microsoft-foreig...
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    Even without bribes, Windows an Office are already so entrenched into any company and public institution and in the muscle memory of workers for decades at this point, that moving to something else means huge hurdles in terms of infra support and staff retraining, that it becomes the default acquisition choice by IT departments, even without bribes.
  - sirtaj 3y ago
    I've been to universities in India where the CS faculty put their "free" Microsoft software boxes on display because the state government has made a deal with MS, but are running Linux on all the computers.
TrackerFF 3y ago
Don't really see why that's surprising. If you are from: - China - Russia - Iran - North-Korea - Pakistan And some other countries, you should absolutely expect full to be under full scrutiny if you plan on working with anything related to research and development (which includes academia), infrastructure, or anything that poses a national security risk. The cold hard truth is that (especially) those nations send operatives and assets to western countries, for the single reason of espionage and intelligence gathering. This is such a known problem that said countries tend to send their people via proxy countries. Of course, these agencies and people are not amateurs - and blending in by the numbers is just one way to make it harder to get caught, and unfortunately means legitimate people will have a harder time to get in.
- 6stringronin 3y ago
  Interesting that you added Pakistan to the list, have they ever been accused of espionage in the US? Or trying to hack anyone for sensitive information? Doesn't seem likely. Have any reference to this? I'm only seeing them in reference to India which would seem par for the course on both sides.
  - bzzzt 3y ago
    Here in The Netherlands there was a big scandal in the 70s concerning Pakistani scientist Dr Abdul Qadir Khan who worked in a nuclear research lab and was accused of being a spy. He's regarded as the 'father' of the Pakistani atom bomb.
    - serallak 3y ago
      And later sold the technology to North Korea if I remember correctly.
  - HexDecOctBin 3y ago
    Pakistan stole nuclear secrets from Netherlands, and then sold them to North Korea (in exchange for ballistic missile technology), Libya and Iran. The nuclear arsenals of all rogue nations threatening armageddon today (other than Russia) were midwifed by Pakistan. Sources: 1. https://archive.ph/EgTF0 https://archive.ph/EgTF0 2. https://web.archive.org/web/20070701103529/http://www.pakistan-facts.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20030111164804284 https://web.archive.org/web/20070701103529/http://www.pakist...
yogorenapan 3y ago
As long as it’s aimed at people with Chinese citizenship and not anyone that looks remotely Chinese (e.g. Singaporeans, Koreans, etc), I’m not too concerned. They do have laws that force us to look more closely without devolving into pure racism.
luyu_wu 3y ago
I'm honestly a bit appalled by the comments here. Do people nlt see that it's wrong to discriminate an entire ethnicity because of certain bad actors? Is it alright to discriminate against black or marginalized people because a few are violent?? A lot of people also didn't read the article I think, this stretches beyond students to professors who have been working here for decades. Even my mother, who works in astrophysics can no longer collaborate with Chinese universities on astrophysics unless she wants suspicion. I hope this fervor can end soon and we can once again separate science from politics. Even in the cold war science was not racialized in this way. Another minor note, these students very much fund most of our universities and serve as brain-drain that is beneficial to us. Once again I'm pretty appalled by this comment section...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jnaina 3y ago
  Blame it on the CCP, their weaponized industrial espionage network, their Wolf Warrior diplomacy, and countless other needless aggression against other nations. This along with the numerous cases of Chinese Nationals caught stealing IP from foreign companies, it is only logical for the US to be wary of China protect its interests at all costs.
- Caligatio 3y ago
  Don't confuse nationality with race/ethnicity. It's 100% acceptable to be suspicious of foreign nationals hailing from a country that is currently at social/political/military odds with one's own country.
seatac76 3y ago
The CCP really did a number on perception here with their thousand talents program and the naked espionage efforts. It is not right if this is racial profiling but the blame for it is on the CCP. The article itself mentions that the numbers affected are a fraction of total Chinese students so I’m inclined to believe it is not racial in nature. It is more a response to Chinese pillaging of Western intellectual property, explicitly in the service of overtaking/dethroning the West. Another example of what we as open society citizens must deal with, how do we tackle such issues without sacrificing our values.
- ndriscoll 3y ago
  > how do we tackle such issues without sacrificing our values. Recognize that "intellectual property" and restriction of knowledge is incompatible with our values. Any publicly funded research should be part of the public domain and published to the world online. Publicly funded universities should be required to post lectures and assignments to the world online. Shorten patents and copyright. Eliminate math/software patents. Eliminate trade secret protections. If a company wants protection, it can get a patent and publish the information. The ideal citizen in a liberal democratic society is an infinitely knowledgeable one. They can make better voting decisions and are more able to start their own businesses as they understand how the world and their specific industry works.
  - skulk 3y ago
    I'll voice the obvious objection to this: what happens if you share everything you do, then someone else stands on your shoulders and invents a world-changing technology, then refuses to share it back and completely ignores your patent claims? Now they dominate you economically and perhaps militarily.
    - ndriscoll 3y ago
      If your own engineers and scientists already have access to almost all knowledge in their field, it seems unlikely that an invention would be so novel that they couldn't reverse engineer it. You could have military engineering kept to a more select group, but independent reinvention by researchers or commercial entities should void any secrecy. Otherwise you get silliness like imported Chinese commodity thermal cameras being better than American ones because of ITAR. Or shutting down hobbyist radar projects; if a hobbyist can do it for fun, adversarial military engineers probably can too. The other defense of course is to base our economy on making things. Pour more resources into manufacturing, industrial automation, and standardization so that when a new technology comes along, we can scale it up. An economy based on knowledge restriction is precarious exactly because others can simply ignore our restrictions. We're hamstringing ourselves and it's an illiberal policy.
feedforward 3y ago
> X Edward Guo, a professor of biomedical engineering at Columbia University, said that part of the problem is that, unlike in the US, military research does sometimes take place on university campuses. “ Yes those dastardly Chinese universities which do military research on campus, unlike in the good old US. Of course this is ridiculous, military research is happening on campuses all the time. The Internet I'm sending this through was a DARPA project, never mind the thousands of even more military specific research projects at universities. In fact there are a host of laws requiring the US military on US campuses ( https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/high-court-rules-in-favor-of-military-recruitment-on-campus https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/high-court-rules-in-favor-... )
no_exit 3y ago
> part of the problem is that, unlike in the US, military research does sometimes take place on university campuses. Oddly misleading, military research definitely takes place at US universities.
- kelipso 3y ago
  Yes, massive amounts of university research is funded directly by DoD and various three letter organizations, plus lots and lots of indirect funding through the MIC as well.

44 points by nkurz 3y ago

I dont even know where to start with this article. They added in the wif of racism with the covid tie in just to make it sensational. We do have a score board for this you know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_spy_cases_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_spy_cases_in_t... VS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–2012_killing_of_CIA_sources_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–2012_killing_of_CIA_sourc... Also note, that Americans were getting their shit taken and copied at the border forever. The border being a no rights zone has been an issue that nerds have been vocal about since the days of slashdot... Dont act shocked cause your Chinese and its happening, we do it to our own people too.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
There was a time when I was always getting stopped and interrogated at customs coming into Seattle from Beijing. No one else on the Hainan flight I arrived on mind you, just me…I was the only white guy in the crowd of passengers who looked mostly Chinese also. Pretty sure they were profiling me, maybe they were just more suspicious of Americans?
- UncleEntity 3y ago
  Drugs... Or you had something unusual going on. They were very concerned when I was trying to fly from Amsterdam to the US on a one way ticket because I had a passport stamp from Iraq which, at the time, was impossible to get unless you were involved with government operations. And this one time I was stopped by Border Patrol at the Phoenix Greyhound station with zero reasonable articulable suspicion as a 30-something white male who, incidentally, lived in Phoenix.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I was just a techie on a business trip. They were suspicious that my luggage was almost completely empty, because I would fill it up shopping in the states. They would always ask me why I was visiting China and I told them I lived there. Smuggling drugs out of China sounded dumb back then, given how much more Chinese are strict on the issue than the Americans. But with fentanyl today it makes more sense.
    - ifwinterco 3y ago
      Travelling long haul without relatively 'normal' luggage is always going to attract attention

asimpleusecase 3y ago

https://www.voanews.com/amp/us-beijing-aim-to-boost-number-of-american-students-in-china-/7569316.html https://www.voanews.com/amp/us-beijing-aim-to-boost-number-o... These days, only about 700 American students are studying at Chinese universities, down from a peak of close to 25,000 a decade ago, while there are nearly 300,000 Chinese students at U.S. schools. To add just a bit of context. I’m sure that foreign students have no restrictions placed on entry to the country, places visited nor are there any restrictions on topics studied or on publication or research. https://www.voanews.com/amp/british-documentary-alleges-china-influences-universities-spies-on-hong-kongers-in-uk/7379777.html https://www.voanews.com/amp/british-documentary-alleges-chin...

martindbp 3y ago
I wonder how much of that is due to Covid, but I remember some stat like the number of people learning Chinese since 2008 was down at least 50% even before Covid, and that includes people studying in their home country.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  The covid response by China's authoritarian dreamers is what did it.
  - martindbp 3y ago
    Yeah, I was there for three months right before the end of restrictions. Not very excited to go back after that.
throwaway743 3y ago
VOA being referenced unironically?
aaron695 3y ago
> only about 700 American students are studying at Chinese This is ~100% COVID https://www.statista.com/statistics/374169/china-number-of-students-from-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/374169/china-number-of-s... Australia had the same lockdowns as China, but because they had remote learning it didn't change a lot - https://www.statista.com/statistics/430276/number-of-chinese-students-in-australia-by-education-sector/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/430276/number-of-chinese... Education is Australia biggest export after selling their dirt from their massive continent (75% of the USA with 8% of the pop) - https://thekoalanews.com/education-as-an-export-for-australia-2022-23 https://thekoalanews.com/education-as-an-export-for-australi... Why China is allowing it's citizens be propagandized by living their formative years in free democracies is crazy. They should have stopped their students leaving after COVID. We should make the most of Xi mistake, or get ready for war and keep sanctioning them and their products. Just chose a direction.

angry_octet 3y ago

It's surprising how few Chinese people study in America. With a population 1/14th of America, Australia has 150,000 Chinese students. The US entry refusals should be familiar fare to Chinese citizens though, as their Govt employs stochastic enforcement all the time, including for censorship and as part of trade disputes. It sucks for the individuals, but this really isn't about them, it's about the CCP and it's ongoing campaign of industrial espionage and global surveillance. It is likely a number of 'students' were also part of the diaspora surveillance network, routinely reporting back about the behaviour of overseas Chinese citizens and especially minorities.

powerapple 3y ago
Australia is full of CCPs, especially corrupted officials, Canada and Australia are popular destinations because it is first world country with immigration policy. (especially their kids don't study well and are spoiled, it is not a problem for Australia apparently) Actually most students go to US are amongst the best students from China, either top students or really hardworking students, and most of them will be excellent engineers and scientists, if US is pushing them away, it is probably good for China.
- TimJRobinson 3y ago
  Foreign students pay 2-3x as much as Australians do to study in Australia. Allowing rich Chinese children to study abroad contributes a lot to Australia's economy and those high fees subsidise everyone else which allows keeping local tuition low, which is why Australia is so open to them.
  - powerapple 2y ago
    not only students, Australia welcomes every dollar. I don't blame them. It is a beautiful country, and I would go there and live in a mansion if I have enough money. The side effect is the property price will increase, but property owners can make a lot money.
  - fakedang 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

givemeethekeys 3y ago

A border / customs officer in any part of the world is not interested in doing any more work than they absolutely have to. Tell them what they need to hear in order to let you be on your way and everyone will be happier for it.

methuselah_in 3y ago

As open is America with academics and western countries, other countries are just not that open. Until the feeling of grab only and don't give back it's horrible. Take example of Linux just half of developing countries hardly contribute. Best example is aosp. People want to have roms but don't want to pay

Qem 3y ago
> Take example of Linux just half of developing countries hardly contribute. It's because Microsoft, a company with headquarters in a developed country, keeps bribing their officials for them to to ignore free software: https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/25/22995144/microsoft-foreign-corrupt-practices-bribery-whistleblower-contracting https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/25/22995144/microsoft-foreig...
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  Even without bribes, Windows an Office are already so entrenched into any company and public institution and in the muscle memory of workers for decades at this point, that moving to something else means huge hurdles in terms of infra support and staff retraining, that it becomes the default acquisition choice by IT departments, even without bribes.
- sirtaj 3y ago
  I've been to universities in India where the CS faculty put their "free" Microsoft software boxes on display because the state government has made a deal with MS, but are running Linux on all the computers.

TrackerFF 3y ago

Don't really see why that's surprising. If you are from: - China - Russia - Iran - North-Korea - Pakistan And some other countries, you should absolutely expect full to be under full scrutiny if you plan on working with anything related to research and development (which includes academia), infrastructure, or anything that poses a national security risk. The cold hard truth is that (especially) those nations send operatives and assets to western countries, for the single reason of espionage and intelligence gathering. This is such a known problem that said countries tend to send their people via proxy countries. Of course, these agencies and people are not amateurs - and blending in by the numbers is just one way to make it harder to get caught, and unfortunately means legitimate people will have a harder time to get in.

6stringronin 3y ago
Interesting that you added Pakistan to the list, have they ever been accused of espionage in the US? Or trying to hack anyone for sensitive information? Doesn't seem likely. Have any reference to this? I'm only seeing them in reference to India which would seem par for the course on both sides.
- bzzzt 3y ago
  Here in The Netherlands there was a big scandal in the 70s concerning Pakistani scientist Dr Abdul Qadir Khan who worked in a nuclear research lab and was accused of being a spy. He's regarded as the 'father' of the Pakistani atom bomb.
  - serallak 3y ago
    And later sold the technology to North Korea if I remember correctly.
- HexDecOctBin 3y ago
  Pakistan stole nuclear secrets from Netherlands, and then sold them to North Korea (in exchange for ballistic missile technology), Libya and Iran. The nuclear arsenals of all rogue nations threatening armageddon today (other than Russia) were midwifed by Pakistan. Sources: 1. https://archive.ph/EgTF0 https://archive.ph/EgTF0 2. https://web.archive.org/web/20070701103529/http://www.pakistan-facts.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20030111164804284 https://web.archive.org/web/20070701103529/http://www.pakist...

yogorenapan 3y ago

As long as it’s aimed at people with Chinese citizenship and not anyone that looks remotely Chinese (e.g. Singaporeans, Koreans, etc), I’m not too concerned. They do have laws that force us to look more closely without devolving into pure racism.

luyu_wu 3y ago

I'm honestly a bit appalled by the comments here. Do people nlt see that it's wrong to discriminate an entire ethnicity because of certain bad actors? Is it alright to discriminate against black or marginalized people because a few are violent?? A lot of people also didn't read the article I think, this stretches beyond students to professors who have been working here for decades. Even my mother, who works in astrophysics can no longer collaborate with Chinese universities on astrophysics unless she wants suspicion. I hope this fervor can end soon and we can once again separate science from politics. Even in the cold war science was not racialized in this way. Another minor note, these students very much fund most of our universities and serve as brain-drain that is beneficial to us. Once again I'm pretty appalled by this comment section...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jnaina 3y ago
Blame it on the CCP, their weaponized industrial espionage network, their Wolf Warrior diplomacy, and countless other needless aggression against other nations. This along with the numerous cases of Chinese Nationals caught stealing IP from foreign companies, it is only logical for the US to be wary of China protect its interests at all costs.
Caligatio 3y ago
Don't confuse nationality with race/ethnicity. It's 100% acceptable to be suspicious of foreign nationals hailing from a country that is currently at social/political/military odds with one's own country.

seatac76 3y ago

The CCP really did a number on perception here with their thousand talents program and the naked espionage efforts. It is not right if this is racial profiling but the blame for it is on the CCP. The article itself mentions that the numbers affected are a fraction of total Chinese students so I’m inclined to believe it is not racial in nature. It is more a response to Chinese pillaging of Western intellectual property, explicitly in the service of overtaking/dethroning the West. Another example of what we as open society citizens must deal with, how do we tackle such issues without sacrificing our values.

ndriscoll 3y ago
> how do we tackle such issues without sacrificing our values. Recognize that "intellectual property" and restriction of knowledge is incompatible with our values. Any publicly funded research should be part of the public domain and published to the world online. Publicly funded universities should be required to post lectures and assignments to the world online. Shorten patents and copyright. Eliminate math/software patents. Eliminate trade secret protections. If a company wants protection, it can get a patent and publish the information. The ideal citizen in a liberal democratic society is an infinitely knowledgeable one. They can make better voting decisions and are more able to start their own businesses as they understand how the world and their specific industry works.
- skulk 3y ago
  I'll voice the obvious objection to this: what happens if you share everything you do, then someone else stands on your shoulders and invents a world-changing technology, then refuses to share it back and completely ignores your patent claims? Now they dominate you economically and perhaps militarily.
  - ndriscoll 3y ago
    If your own engineers and scientists already have access to almost all knowledge in their field, it seems unlikely that an invention would be so novel that they couldn't reverse engineer it. You could have military engineering kept to a more select group, but independent reinvention by researchers or commercial entities should void any secrecy. Otherwise you get silliness like imported Chinese commodity thermal cameras being better than American ones because of ITAR. Or shutting down hobbyist radar projects; if a hobbyist can do it for fun, adversarial military engineers probably can too. The other defense of course is to base our economy on making things. Pour more resources into manufacturing, industrial automation, and standardization so that when a new technology comes along, we can scale it up. An economy based on knowledge restriction is precarious exactly because others can simply ignore our restrictions. We're hamstringing ourselves and it's an illiberal policy.

feedforward 3y ago

> X Edward Guo, a professor of biomedical engineering at Columbia University, said that part of the problem is that, unlike in the US, military research does sometimes take place on university campuses. “ Yes those dastardly Chinese universities which do military research on campus, unlike in the good old US. Of course this is ridiculous, military research is happening on campuses all the time. The Internet I'm sending this through was a DARPA project, never mind the thousands of even more military specific research projects at universities. In fact there are a host of laws requiring the US military on US campuses ( https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/high-court-rules-in-favor-of-military-recruitment-on-campus https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/high-court-rules-in-favor-... )

no_exit 3y ago

> part of the problem is that, unlike in the US, military research does sometimes take place on university campuses. Oddly misleading, military research definitely takes place at US universities.

kelipso 3y ago
Yes, massive amounts of university research is funded directly by DoD and various three letter organizations, plus lots and lots of indirect funding through the MIC as well.