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China bans sites & apps from the West that violate their laws - the ad tracking, monitoring, censorship & influencer/fake news we have here... the funding schem

by _akhe 2y ago

China bans sites & apps from the West that violate their laws - the ad tracking, monitoring, censorship & influencer/fake news we have here... the funding schemes and market monopolizing that companies like Facebook do in the West is just not legal there. Can you blame them for not wanting it? Companies that don't violate Chinese laws and approach China with realistic deals are allowed to operate there - you can play WoW in China because unlike Facebook it's not involved in censorship, severe privacy violations etc. and Blizzard actually worked with China (NetEase) to bring their product to market there instead of crying and trying to stoke WW3 in the news like our social media companies are doing. Just because Facebook and Google can do whatever they want unchecked in America and its vassal the EU, doesn't mean other countries have to allow it. The West just wants to counter-block Chinese apps like TikTok in retaliation for them upholding their own rule of law.

peter422 2y ago
Are you suggesting that censorship is more is an issue in the west than in China?
PeterHolzwarth 2y ago
Some of those laws are "you can't buy that company of ours, even tho we own lots of yours."
SpaghettiCthulu 2y ago
China recently forced Apple to remove Signal from the App Store. What reasonable Chinese law did that app violate?
- pessimizer 2y ago
  You added the word "reasonable" because you knew it was a bad argument and you wanted to find a way to make it subjective. You prefer to argue about what you think is reasonable.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Companies that don't violate Chinese laws and approach China with realistic deals are allowed to operate there China isn’t a country with the rule of law. They don’t even pretend as much. If you appease Xi, you can stay. If you don’t, you’re out.
- _akhe 2y ago
  What's next on TV?
- johngladtj 2y ago
  Name one country with rule of law so that I may show you an example of such rule not existing
wcunning 2y ago
They also ban TikTok -- the Chinese version doesn't push the type of content TikTok does and doesn't mix international user data into the local version. Notably, several other countries with mediocre relationships with China also ban TikTok, for example India.
- scotty79 2y ago
  Maybe that type of content is illegal in China but not it the US?
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    China makes companies practice self censorship that is heavily based on current cChinese context, they won't tell you what content is illegal, you just better not have content that they deem illegal after the fact. This makes the Douyin model very different from Tiktok in the rest of the world, where illegal content is generally well defined (no nudity, sex...erm, but Douyin-no-no Winnie the pooh is OK).
    - scotty79 2y ago
      I think nudity content is not illegal in the West. It is avoided due to self-censorship, but it's the advertisers not the party that content providers fear.
      - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        Nudity isn’t illegal in itself, but presenting nudity to minors, or worse, nudity of minors, is very very illegal. It isn’t self censoring Winnie the Pooh at that point, it is a clear rule that everyone has strategies to follow.
- dragonelite 2y ago
  There's enough brain rot content on Chinese social media network. That homesome science stuff content is just bs. You can find enough youtube reaction videos for it.
NickC25 2y ago
Disclaimer: I worked for, and helped start, a company that contracted with Tsinghua University. The list of demands they had was....well, enormous. We couldn't even say that we were our own company, whenever we faced a client within Tsinghua, we had to tell them that we were an operation owned and run by Tsinghua. Why? Because we weren't Chinese. >* Can you blame them for not wanting it?* No, I don't blame them at all. I applaud it, considering the fact that I find modern social media to be cancerous and dumb. >you can play WoW in China because unlike Facebook it's not involved in censorship, severe privacy violations etc. and Blizzard actually worked with China (NetEase) You're omitting details. Blizzard didn't "work with" NetEase, they basically gave them the IP and ability to sell the game in China as well as ownership of all servers that host Chinese players. Microsoft did the same thing with their Office suite and Azure cloud services....because they aren't allowed to independently operate in China. BTW as much as you think it's a private company, NetEase is an arm of the Chinese government. >The West just wants to counter-block Chinese apps like TikTok in retaliation for them upholding their own rule of law. Not quite. China is extremely protectionist of their own homegrown companies. They don't allow foreign competition. This creates an uneven playing field. The west simply wants to play by those rules, too.
- _akhe 2y ago
  > Blizzard didn't "work with" NetEase, they basically gave them the IP and ability to sell the game in China as well as ownership of all servers that host Chinese players. My dear bro, this is called "working with". > Microsoft did the same thing with their Office suite and Azure cloud services... because they aren't allowed to independently operate in China. You're the one actually being manipulative with words here: Microsoft is allowed to sell products in China and they do, by independently operate you might mean "ignore Chinese laws" some of which include the fact that Microsoft is required to share data with our government on a regular basis. Beyond ethics and ad tracking, why would another government allow US-based companies to effectively spy on them? > They don't allow foreign competition. This creates an uneven playing field. Again not true, you just have to follow the laws of whatever country you're operating in.
  - brigadier132 2y ago
celdon25 2y ago
> unlike Facebook it's not involved in censorship I guess you don’t know about the “F word and SH word” incident with the blizzard GM and the pro player getting banned from overwatch 2 for swearing and appeal rejected despite the words being filtered by a profanity filter that defaults to enabled. https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/blizzard-confirms-profanity-bannable-in-any-context/894433 https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/blizzard-confi...
- _akhe 2y ago
  Censorship meaning entire narratives in the news like hiding involvement of state or corporate actors in illegal activities, not a moderator/GM abusing power in a chat. Moderator abuse is a problem too, but tiny in comparison and not actually illegal if you agree to their terms.
throwaway333444 2y ago
Actually you haven’t been able to play WoW in China for a ~year. But that’s largely irrelevant to your point. More specifically Blizzard is able to bring their product to everywhere else in the world. The fact that they choose to “work” with a local partner in China to get access to that market reads more to me like a government run racket / forced rent seeking than anything else. > approach China with realistic deals are allowed to operate there On a more hyperbolic note, I’m sure many people in the past paid off mobsters for the privilege of doing business in certain areas with the rationale they were being “realistic”. To that end if the US wants to start treating Chinese backed companies a similar way (laws that distort the market) I’m not surprised. China has no moral high ground here. Or more simply your point cuts both ways. > doesn't mean other countries have to allow it.
- _akhe 2y ago
  > Actually you haven’t been able to play WoW in China for a ~year Not true: https://www.wowhead.com/news/over-two-million-players-sign-up-for-world-of-warcrafts-return-to-china-338733 https://www.wowhead.com/news/over-two-million-players-sign-u... Their services are literally live right now if they are taking signups.
  - throwaway333444 2y ago
    Today WoW is unavailable in China. The linked article indicates a return to China which AFAIK is not live yet. My statement is true, and the lack of WoW in China for at least a time period will always be true. But as previously mentioned this point isn’t that important. I just found it amusing that the example you used for a company behaving well in China wasn’t even in China at the time.
    - _akhe 2y ago
      > the lack of WoW in China for at least a time period That's a more fair claim, but both goes without saying (because it's what we're talking about) and is still misleading, because and I'll quote the wowhead- "World of Warcraft has always been popular in China" Anyone familiar knows WoW has been available in China for many years (they even have a Blizzard China HQ) and Blizzard has been working with with NetEase for years to service that market. That's true for a lot of other companies, everything from McDonalds to Ford. It's just social media companies whining. > just found it amusing that the example you used Intentionally so but could have easily mentioned GM, Microsoft, Boeing, Nike, KFC, Coke, Procter & Gamble, Intel, or Starbucks with their 7000 stores in China alone. Are you seriously claiming that American companies can't operate there? Do basic research and stop watching the news - some of you really can't be helped.

by _akhe 2y ago

peter422 2y ago

Are you suggesting that censorship is more is an issue in the west than in China?

PeterHolzwarth 2y ago

Some of those laws are "you can't buy that company of ours, even tho we own lots of yours."

SpaghettiCthulu 2y ago

China recently forced Apple to remove Signal from the App Store. What reasonable Chinese law did that app violate?

pessimizer 2y ago
You added the word "reasonable" because you knew it was a bad argument and you wanted to find a way to make it subjective. You prefer to argue about what you think is reasonable.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Companies that don't violate Chinese laws and approach China with realistic deals are allowed to operate there China isn’t a country with the rule of law. They don’t even pretend as much. If you appease Xi, you can stay. If you don’t, you’re out.

_akhe 2y ago
What's next on TV?
johngladtj 2y ago
Name one country with rule of law so that I may show you an example of such rule not existing

wcunning 2y ago

They also ban TikTok -- the Chinese version doesn't push the type of content TikTok does and doesn't mix international user data into the local version. Notably, several other countries with mediocre relationships with China also ban TikTok, for example India.

scotty79 2y ago
Maybe that type of content is illegal in China but not it the US?
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  China makes companies practice self censorship that is heavily based on current cChinese context, they won't tell you what content is illegal, you just better not have content that they deem illegal after the fact. This makes the Douyin model very different from Tiktok in the rest of the world, where illegal content is generally well defined (no nudity, sex...erm, but Douyin-no-no Winnie the pooh is OK).
  - scotty79 2y ago
    I think nudity content is not illegal in the West. It is avoided due to self-censorship, but it's the advertisers not the party that content providers fear.
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      Nudity isn’t illegal in itself, but presenting nudity to minors, or worse, nudity of minors, is very very illegal. It isn’t self censoring Winnie the Pooh at that point, it is a clear rule that everyone has strategies to follow.
dragonelite 2y ago
There's enough brain rot content on Chinese social media network. That homesome science stuff content is just bs. You can find enough youtube reaction videos for it.

NickC25 2y ago

Disclaimer: I worked for, and helped start, a company that contracted with Tsinghua University. The list of demands they had was....well, enormous. We couldn't even say that we were our own company, whenever we faced a client within Tsinghua, we had to tell them that we were an operation owned and run by Tsinghua. Why? Because we weren't Chinese. >* Can you blame them for not wanting it?* No, I don't blame them at all. I applaud it, considering the fact that I find modern social media to be cancerous and dumb. >you can play WoW in China because unlike Facebook it's not involved in censorship, severe privacy violations etc. and Blizzard actually worked with China (NetEase) You're omitting details. Blizzard didn't "work with" NetEase, they basically gave them the IP and ability to sell the game in China as well as ownership of all servers that host Chinese players. Microsoft did the same thing with their Office suite and Azure cloud services....because they aren't allowed to independently operate in China. BTW as much as you think it's a private company, NetEase is an arm of the Chinese government. >The West just wants to counter-block Chinese apps like TikTok in retaliation for them upholding their own rule of law. Not quite. China is extremely protectionist of their own homegrown companies. They don't allow foreign competition. This creates an uneven playing field. The west simply wants to play by those rules, too.

_akhe 2y ago
> Blizzard didn't "work with" NetEase, they basically gave them the IP and ability to sell the game in China as well as ownership of all servers that host Chinese players. My dear bro, this is called "working with". > Microsoft did the same thing with their Office suite and Azure cloud services... because they aren't allowed to independently operate in China. You're the one actually being manipulative with words here: Microsoft is allowed to sell products in China and they do, by independently operate you might mean "ignore Chinese laws" some of which include the fact that Microsoft is required to share data with our government on a regular basis. Beyond ethics and ad tracking, why would another government allow US-based companies to effectively spy on them? > They don't allow foreign competition. This creates an uneven playing field. Again not true, you just have to follow the laws of whatever country you're operating in.
- brigadier132 2y ago

celdon25 2y ago

> unlike Facebook it's not involved in censorship I guess you don’t know about the “F word and SH word” incident with the blizzard GM and the pro player getting banned from overwatch 2 for swearing and appeal rejected despite the words being filtered by a profanity filter that defaults to enabled. https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/blizzard-confirms-profanity-bannable-in-any-context/894433 https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/blizzard-confi...

_akhe 2y ago
Censorship meaning entire narratives in the news like hiding involvement of state or corporate actors in illegal activities, not a moderator/GM abusing power in a chat. Moderator abuse is a problem too, but tiny in comparison and not actually illegal if you agree to their terms.

throwaway333444 2y ago

Actually you haven’t been able to play WoW in China for a ~year. But that’s largely irrelevant to your point. More specifically Blizzard is able to bring their product to everywhere else in the world. The fact that they choose to “work” with a local partner in China to get access to that market reads more to me like a government run racket / forced rent seeking than anything else. > approach China with realistic deals are allowed to operate there On a more hyperbolic note, I’m sure many people in the past paid off mobsters for the privilege of doing business in certain areas with the rationale they were being “realistic”. To that end if the US wants to start treating Chinese backed companies a similar way (laws that distort the market) I’m not surprised. China has no moral high ground here. Or more simply your point cuts both ways. > doesn't mean other countries have to allow it.

_akhe 2y ago
> Actually you haven’t been able to play WoW in China for a ~year Not true: https://www.wowhead.com/news/over-two-million-players-sign-up-for-world-of-warcrafts-return-to-china-338733 https://www.wowhead.com/news/over-two-million-players-sign-u... Their services are literally live right now if they are taking signups.
- throwaway333444 2y ago
  Today WoW is unavailable in China. The linked article indicates a return to China which AFAIK is not live yet. My statement is true, and the lack of WoW in China for at least a time period will always be true. But as previously mentioned this point isn’t that important. I just found it amusing that the example you used for a company behaving well in China wasn’t even in China at the time.
  - _akhe 2y ago
    > the lack of WoW in China for at least a time period That's a more fair claim, but both goes without saying (because it's what we're talking about) and is still misleading, because and I'll quote the wowhead- "World of Warcraft has always been popular in China" Anyone familiar knows WoW has been available in China for many years (they even have a Blizzard China HQ) and Blizzard has been working with with NetEase for years to service that market. That's true for a lot of other companies, everything from McDonalds to Ford. It's just social media companies whining. > just found it amusing that the example you used Intentionally so but could have easily mentioned GM, Microsoft, Boeing, Nike, KFC, Coke, Procter & Gamble, Intel, or Starbucks with their 7000 stores in China alone. Are you seriously claiming that American companies can't operate there? Do basic research and stop watching the news - some of you really can't be helped.