4 ms·

TVs became a nightmare… is there really no market for pay 1000 more and get a non spyware, repairable tv? I know the answer. Same as with buying away ads. The g

TVs became a nightmare… is there really no market for pay 1000 more and get a non spyware, repairable tv? I know the answer. Same as with buying away ads. The greater fuckery makes more money even than the rich people plonking down money.

Rinzler89 3y ago
There's digital signage displays (like the ones you find in airports, shops, practices, etc) but those are only sold to private entities, not direct to consumers, if you can score one of those on ebay, but you'll get no warranty obviously and energy consumption might be higher and missing fancy picture and processing modes. Or just buy a normal TV and never connect it to the internet, what's so hard about that? Cheaper than paying more and getting less for a digital signage screen.
- 15155 3y ago
  https://www.cdw.com/product/nec-e558-e-series-55-class-54.6-viewable-led-backlit-lcd-display-4k/6464023 https://www.cdw.com/product/nec-e558-e-series-55-class-54.6-... These devices aren't at all exclusive or difficult to purchase.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    Depends where you live.
    - thaumasiotes 3y ago
      It does? https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Business-QE43T-Commercial-LH43QETELGCXZA/dp/B08DQDV4S3/ https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Business-QE43T-Commercial-LH4... Where would you live that they would be hard to find?
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        What's the pros of that signage TV versus any consumer TV? It's still a "smart TV" running Tizen OS from Samsung so high chances of similar software shittyness.
        pauby 3y ago
        There is no privacy to be gained from buying Samsung products. They're just as bad as every other data harvesting company.
        thaumasiotes 3y ago
        In Samsung's terminology, it is a business signage display. Note that this is considered a separate product category from "business TV". The point of a sign is that it shows what you want it to show. Whether that's an advantage depends on whether that's what you're looking for. But every feature of the display is going to be oriented towards that goal. Notwithstanding the Amazon review that says "Yes it has wifi", you might find it noteworthy that this model does not have wifi connectivity. (As can be verified from its spec sheet, https://image-us.samsung.com/SamsungUS/samsungbusiness/pdf/spec-sheets/QET_SERIES_QE43T_QE50T_QE55T_QE65T_QE70T_QE75T_QE82T.PDF https://image-us.samsung.com/SamsungUS/samsungbusiness/pdf/s... , or from its page on CDW, https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-qe43t-smart-signage-qet-series-43-class-42.5-viewable-led-bac/6070233 https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-qe43t-smart-signage-qet-... ) Your comments elsewhere in this very thread seem to indicate that this product is exactly what you want, a display that won't show ads and, in the general case, isn't connected to the internet. What exactly are you imagining will happen to someone who uses one?
        namibj 3y ago
        Mine, a 43" 4k AMVA3 from iiyama, shines with a comfortable 18/7 uptime rating. Essentially that means I only have to turn it off when I'm sleeping to stay in the warranty. Also I can officially customize the splash screen it's bootloader throws up before it goes and switches to the last selected input and it's graphics settings. Having gotten a 40" sibling that was sold as "desktop monitor" with otherwise identical panel (besides of course pixel pitch) spoiled me with it's "technically counts as HDR" native contrast from a burn-in resistant LCD, also suffering just barely perceptible loss of contrast with no significant color shift at all viewing angles that aren't already too extreme to comfortably read text due to distortion. Sure, it's slow and thus not suited for competitive counter strike, code editing and SDR-mastered visual media look about as good as an LCD can. They do though seem to not consider factory/nominal color calibration for the panel with the signal processor and a regular operating system on an attached PC something they want to offer on these, which is annoying because with 8 bit and the nominal 5000:1 static contrast mild banding isn't even unexpected. So it'd be preferable to just drop an ICC profile onto the computer that's valid for when the screen is set to native gamma and native white balance (I.e. dumb panel mode) and get to make full use of the panel without the excess expense of individually calibrating devices to do digital proofs ahead of actual production/view the material during actively ongoing color grading work. A decent color managed (but not individually calibrated) screen will suffice happily for most tasks, to the point where further calibration won't be perceptible in a double blind test with the screen isolated from reference light sources for most untrained eyes.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  > There's billboard displays (like the ones you find in airports, shops, practices, etc) but those are only sold to private entities Most of these are resold by niche small businesses but I don't see any incentive for them to reject a private individual buying it? In the UK I got mine from https://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/displays https://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/displays (no affiliation beyond being a satisfied customer) and after wiring them the money I got it next day. I've had good experience with Sony professional displays (model number FW-65BZ35F) - they are reasonably priced and come with stock Android TV with very little bloatware. My understanding is that these Sony units are not billboard displays or optimized for high-brightness/24H runtime, they're what looks like standard consumer hardware just running a different firmware - the upside is that the price is actually competitive with consumer-grade TVs.
- slau 3y ago
  You also don’t need to be as extreme as “never connect”. Just plug it into Ethernet, update the firmware, and disconnect it.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    A lot of TVs only have wifi, no ethernet. Plus even if you plug it only once it's enough to phone home and download and cache some ads to show you later.
    - slau 3y ago
      I haven’t experienced that, and therefore hadn’t considered it. USB stick for firmware updates it is from now on, then.
  - solardev 3y ago
    I've found that even once can be too much, since new firmware/software often include new ads and require telemetry. If you're never gonna use the built in OS anyway, there's no reason to risk it. Most TV manufacturers are engaged in a brutal race to the bottom and they have to enshittify the software to make money.
    - slau 3y ago
      That’s fair. I did plug in my TV after 7 years or so. I was hoping the new firmware would fix some issues (eARC compatibility, mainly). It didn’t. Fixed some other bugs, introduced some new ones. Not my best bet, not my worst. Still no ads, luckily, though.
- kspacewalk2 3y ago
  Those aren't difficult at all to buy in North America, especially online. Just get it off Amazon.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    Like John Oliver said: "Did you know there are other countries that are not America?"
- philistine 3y ago
  Digital signage displays are terrible at color reproduction, usually have no amenities for CEC or ARC, and did I say they’re terrible at color reproduction. Like the one thing a TV is for.
  - saltminer 3y ago
    That's a bit surprising, I'd expect them to be factory-calibrated since marketing departments love their Pantones.
- rsync 3y ago
  "... but those are only sold to private entities, not direct to consumers ..." End users and consumers can buy digital signage and commercial displays without any trouble. Here is one on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/NEC-Commercial-Public-Display-Speakers/dp/B09D43SF51/ https://www.amazon.com/NEC-Commercial-Public-Display-Speaker...
taspeotis 3y ago
LG TVs you can set your country to “Other” and it generally disables all its telemetry and upsells etc.
solardev 3y ago
I think it's easier to just buy whatever TV you want but never connect it to the internet. Hook it up to a Chromecast or Apple TV or a Plex box or whatever and you're good. I've done that with last 3-4 TVs and never had an issue. And the $50 dongle is much cheaper than paying $1000 more.
- jprete 3y ago
  Cellular radios and connections are getting cheap enough to embed in the TVs directly, so this is at best a temporary solution.
  - solardev 3y ago
    I just won't buy those TVs.
  - philistine 3y ago
    Once again, this whole idea rears its ugly head. There has never been a TV, let alone a device, that has included a cellular radio to maintain a connection so it can keep tracking you. Never happened. It’s just a thing we know can happen, but doesn’t for myriad reasons like humans flying in drones.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - BlueTemplar 3y ago
      Isn't it mandatory for new cars in the EU now ?
    - photon_rancher 3y ago
      Cars pretty much all do this now.
- yencabulator 3y ago
  Unfortunately a lot of modern TVs have bloated slow UIs, and want to default to showing their "home screen". This makes them much worse experiences for "just show HDMI input".
ta1243 3y ago
TV companies don't make $1k for the spyware, nowhere near that. Vizio for exmaple in 2021 made 85% of its revenue from selling the TV, just 15% from the "platform". If the $400 TV was instead $470 they would make the same. These scam companies just see it as "free profit" on top of a captive audience. PC manufacturers used to do this, with Microsoft's consent. Buy a laptop 20 years ago and you would get tons of shovelware from Dell which made them a few extra pennies. Nowadays I believe Microsoft themselves got into the game. Companies aren't happy with making a product for $50 and selling it for $60 (or $200 or whatever), they have to make a little more by double-dipping. This is of course partly the consumer to blame -- they just look at the headline price. Buy the plane ticket for the lowest price on the middleman interface, but then it's $15 'check-in fee', $50 'landing-fee' etc, but that doesn't matter because look at the shiny advert for $9.99*
- rsync 3y ago
  "Vizio for exmaple in 2021 made 85% of its revenue from selling the TV, just 15% from the "platform"." What percentage of their profit comes from that 15% of their revenue ? I suspect it's a lot.
  - ta1243 3y ago
    That 15% revenue only exists because of the other 85% revenue.
chadcmulligan 3y ago
Monitor/soundbar and Apple TV works for me
techdmn 3y ago
There are definitely dumb TVs out there. I picked up a Sceptre from Amazon. It's not fantastic, but the price was right, has inputs plenty and varied, and zero "smart" features.
YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
I bought an LG 43” computer monitor (marketed for doing 2x2 PbP of 1080p video streams and small video conferencing rooms, I guess) and it feels infinitely better than any smart TV I’ve used. It was reasonably priced as well. If you want bigger than 43”, you may be stuffed, as I think all the largest monitors on the market are this big.

Rinzler89 3y ago

There's digital signage displays (like the ones you find in airports, shops, practices, etc) but those are only sold to private entities, not direct to consumers, if you can score one of those on ebay, but you'll get no warranty obviously and energy consumption might be higher and missing fancy picture and processing modes. Or just buy a normal TV and never connect it to the internet, what's so hard about that? Cheaper than paying more and getting less for a digital signage screen.

15155 3y ago
https://www.cdw.com/product/nec-e558-e-series-55-class-54.6-viewable-led-backlit-lcd-display-4k/6464023 https://www.cdw.com/product/nec-e558-e-series-55-class-54.6-... These devices aren't at all exclusive or difficult to purchase.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  Depends where you live.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    It does? https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Business-QE43T-Commercial-LH43QETELGCXZA/dp/B08DQDV4S3/ https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Business-QE43T-Commercial-LH4... Where would you live that they would be hard to find?
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      What's the pros of that signage TV versus any consumer TV? It's still a "smart TV" running Tizen OS from Samsung so high chances of similar software shittyness.
      - pauby 3y ago
        There is no privacy to be gained from buying Samsung products. They're just as bad as every other data harvesting company.
      - thaumasiotes 3y ago
        In Samsung's terminology, it is a business signage display. Note that this is considered a separate product category from "business TV". The point of a sign is that it shows what you want it to show. Whether that's an advantage depends on whether that's what you're looking for. But every feature of the display is going to be oriented towards that goal. Notwithstanding the Amazon review that says "Yes it has wifi", you might find it noteworthy that this model does not have wifi connectivity. (As can be verified from its spec sheet, https://image-us.samsung.com/SamsungUS/samsungbusiness/pdf/spec-sheets/QET_SERIES_QE43T_QE50T_QE55T_QE65T_QE70T_QE75T_QE82T.PDF https://image-us.samsung.com/SamsungUS/samsungbusiness/pdf/s... , or from its page on CDW, https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-qe43t-smart-signage-qet-series-43-class-42.5-viewable-led-bac/6070233 https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-qe43t-smart-signage-qet-... ) Your comments elsewhere in this very thread seem to indicate that this product is exactly what you want, a display that won't show ads and, in the general case, isn't connected to the internet. What exactly are you imagining will happen to someone who uses one?
      - namibj 3y ago
        Mine, a 43" 4k AMVA3 from iiyama, shines with a comfortable 18/7 uptime rating. Essentially that means I only have to turn it off when I'm sleeping to stay in the warranty. Also I can officially customize the splash screen it's bootloader throws up before it goes and switches to the last selected input and it's graphics settings. Having gotten a 40" sibling that was sold as "desktop monitor" with otherwise identical panel (besides of course pixel pitch) spoiled me with it's "technically counts as HDR" native contrast from a burn-in resistant LCD, also suffering just barely perceptible loss of contrast with no significant color shift at all viewing angles that aren't already too extreme to comfortably read text due to distortion. Sure, it's slow and thus not suited for competitive counter strike, code editing and SDR-mastered visual media look about as good as an LCD can. They do though seem to not consider factory/nominal color calibration for the panel with the signal processor and a regular operating system on an attached PC something they want to offer on these, which is annoying because with 8 bit and the nominal 5000:1 static contrast mild banding isn't even unexpected. So it'd be preferable to just drop an ICC profile onto the computer that's valid for when the screen is set to native gamma and native white balance (I.e. dumb panel mode) and get to make full use of the panel without the excess expense of individually calibrating devices to do digital proofs ahead of actual production/view the material during actively ongoing color grading work. A decent color managed (but not individually calibrated) screen will suffice happily for most tasks, to the point where further calibration won't be perceptible in a double blind test with the screen isolated from reference light sources for most untrained eyes.
Nextgrid 3y ago
> There's billboard displays (like the ones you find in airports, shops, practices, etc) but those are only sold to private entities Most of these are resold by niche small businesses but I don't see any incentive for them to reject a private individual buying it? In the UK I got mine from https://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/displays https://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/displays (no affiliation beyond being a satisfied customer) and after wiring them the money I got it next day. I've had good experience with Sony professional displays (model number FW-65BZ35F) - they are reasonably priced and come with stock Android TV with very little bloatware. My understanding is that these Sony units are not billboard displays or optimized for high-brightness/24H runtime, they're what looks like standard consumer hardware just running a different firmware - the upside is that the price is actually competitive with consumer-grade TVs.
slau 3y ago
You also don’t need to be as extreme as “never connect”. Just plug it into Ethernet, update the firmware, and disconnect it.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  A lot of TVs only have wifi, no ethernet. Plus even if you plug it only once it's enough to phone home and download and cache some ads to show you later.
  - slau 3y ago
    I haven’t experienced that, and therefore hadn’t considered it. USB stick for firmware updates it is from now on, then.
- solardev 3y ago
  I've found that even once can be too much, since new firmware/software often include new ads and require telemetry. If you're never gonna use the built in OS anyway, there's no reason to risk it. Most TV manufacturers are engaged in a brutal race to the bottom and they have to enshittify the software to make money.
  - slau 3y ago
    That’s fair. I did plug in my TV after 7 years or so. I was hoping the new firmware would fix some issues (eARC compatibility, mainly). It didn’t. Fixed some other bugs, introduced some new ones. Not my best bet, not my worst. Still no ads, luckily, though.
kspacewalk2 3y ago
Those aren't difficult at all to buy in North America, especially online. Just get it off Amazon.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  Like John Oliver said: "Did you know there are other countries that are not America?"
philistine 3y ago
Digital signage displays are terrible at color reproduction, usually have no amenities for CEC or ARC, and did I say they’re terrible at color reproduction. Like the one thing a TV is for.
- saltminer 3y ago
  That's a bit surprising, I'd expect them to be factory-calibrated since marketing departments love their Pantones.
rsync 3y ago
"... but those are only sold to private entities, not direct to consumers ..." End users and consumers can buy digital signage and commercial displays without any trouble. Here is one on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/NEC-Commercial-Public-Display-Speakers/dp/B09D43SF51/ https://www.amazon.com/NEC-Commercial-Public-Display-Speaker...

taspeotis 3y ago

LG TVs you can set your country to “Other” and it generally disables all its telemetry and upsells etc.

solardev 3y ago

I think it's easier to just buy whatever TV you want but never connect it to the internet. Hook it up to a Chromecast or Apple TV or a Plex box or whatever and you're good. I've done that with last 3-4 TVs and never had an issue. And the $50 dongle is much cheaper than paying $1000 more.

jprete 3y ago
Cellular radios and connections are getting cheap enough to embed in the TVs directly, so this is at best a temporary solution.
- solardev 3y ago
  I just won't buy those TVs.
- philistine 3y ago
  Once again, this whole idea rears its ugly head. There has never been a TV, let alone a device, that has included a cellular radio to maintain a connection so it can keep tracking you. Never happened. It’s just a thing we know can happen, but doesn’t for myriad reasons like humans flying in drones.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - BlueTemplar 3y ago
    Isn't it mandatory for new cars in the EU now ?
  - photon_rancher 3y ago
    Cars pretty much all do this now.
yencabulator 3y ago
Unfortunately a lot of modern TVs have bloated slow UIs, and want to default to showing their "home screen". This makes them much worse experiences for "just show HDMI input".

ta1243 3y ago

TV companies don't make $1k for the spyware, nowhere near that. Vizio for exmaple in 2021 made 85% of its revenue from selling the TV, just 15% from the "platform". If the $400 TV was instead $470 they would make the same. These scam companies just see it as "free profit" on top of a captive audience. PC manufacturers used to do this, with Microsoft's consent. Buy a laptop 20 years ago and you would get tons of shovelware from Dell which made them a few extra pennies. Nowadays I believe Microsoft themselves got into the game. Companies aren't happy with making a product for $50 and selling it for $60 (or $200 or whatever), they have to make a little more by double-dipping. This is of course partly the consumer to blame -- they just look at the headline price. Buy the plane ticket for the lowest price on the middleman interface, but then it's $15 'check-in fee', $50 'landing-fee' etc, but that doesn't matter because look at the shiny advert for $9.99*

rsync 3y ago
"Vizio for exmaple in 2021 made 85% of its revenue from selling the TV, just 15% from the "platform"." What percentage of their profit comes from that 15% of their revenue ? I suspect it's a lot.
- ta1243 3y ago
  That 15% revenue only exists because of the other 85% revenue.

chadcmulligan 3y ago

Monitor/soundbar and Apple TV works for me

techdmn 3y ago

There are definitely dumb TVs out there. I picked up a Sceptre from Amazon. It's not fantastic, but the price was right, has inputs plenty and varied, and zero "smart" features.

YurgenJurgensen 3y ago

I bought an LG 43” computer monitor (marketed for doing 2x2 PbP of 1080p video streams and small video conferencing rooms, I guess) and it feels infinitely better than any smart TV I’ve used. It was reasonably priced as well. If you want bigger than 43”, you may be stuffed, as I think all the largest monitors on the market are this big.