4 ms·

Agree with this, but let's not forget public transportation. Yes, I biked and walked all over my region, but I also used buses to get to downtown(Seattle, from

Agree with this, but let's not forget public transportation. Yes, I biked and walked all over my region, but I also used buses to get to downtown(Seattle, from Auburn. Starting around 12 I think, in the late 80s). Without getting into a debate about the safety of some modern city centers, buses are a great tool for 10+ year old kids to get around town to places where they can walk and bike.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
A walkable and bike-able neighborhood will necessarily have to be dense enough such that public transit also makes sense.
josephd79 3y ago
12 year olds do not have that freedom anymore. People will flip out seeing kids that young doing something outside without adult supervision. They’ll call CPS on you.
- GJim 3y ago
  > They’ll call CPS on you. So what? What are they doing to do about it? Your post is incomplete. (Analogy: I can decide I don't like you farting in the street and call a policeman on you, though I doubt they would do anything about it either!)
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    The point is, this isn't a problem of kids. The kids' situation is a symptom. The problem is the adults and the hypocrisy. We say "Kids should be outside. They need more exercise and less screen time. They need more unstructured play time. Etc." But then we cry "Nooooo. Stranger danger" and phone CPS if a child is "free ranging." Furthermore, no parent wants to be known as the CPS parent. And certainly no kid wants to be their kid. What can CPS do? It doesn't matter.The question is: what will be the reaction of your parental peers, their kids, teachers, coaches, etc., and your kid.
    - GJim 3y ago
      > Furthermore, no parent wants to be known as the CPS parent Given the posts suggesting CPS is not fit for purpose, one should be proud of standing up to them, not ashamed.
  - wingspar 3y ago
    They’re going to mess up your life. “ The debate over the actions of Danielle and Alexander Meitiv, of Silver Spring, began in December when state authorities started investigating them for letting their children walk to school by themselves. The Meitivs never thought letting their children, 10-year-old Rafi and 6-year-old Dvora, walk home from the park would spark a national discussion. The Silver Spring parents were interviewed when Montgomery County Child Protective Services began investigating them” https://www.wbaltv.com/article/parents-debate-cps-decision-for-free-range-maryland-parents/7092204 https://www.wbaltv.com/article/parents-debate-cps-decision-f... Apparently cleared, eventually, but …
  - kkfx 3y ago
    Depending of the kind of bio-gas injected in the public place they might call NBC special operations and classify you as a public threat :D
  - john_the_writer 3y ago
    And once CPS gets their hands on you, they always have you. It's worse than most STD's. Let your kids walk home, and spent the next 10 years being interviewed. A friend of mine got called out. Their kid almost never missed school, got good grades and the parents were on top of their development. Then ended up spending countless hours talking with CPS after they were caught letting their kids play at home, while they went to the corner shop.
- hgomersall 3y ago
  We need a new campaign to let kids live. I used to walk to get a train and then walk from the station to school at 9 without and adult supervision. I had other kids around me on that journey, but you just get on with it. I don't ever remember not being competent.
- oliwarner 3y ago
  I think this is okay. People make unreasonable complaints to all sorts of law enforcement, and as long as CPS is telling them to adjust their expectations, nothing bad has happened. That's the only way things will ever improve. Deliberately meeting the expectations of unreasonable people will only make things worse.
  - pas 3y ago
    well, CPS (and other protection and service arms of the government) is not known for being famously good and competent at de-escalation :/ but yes, it's important to apply pressure to the bureaucracy (through - and to - the courts) too, to change the status quo. that said, when it comes to one's kids it's understandable that no one wants to "volunteer" their own kids for these challenges.
    - oliwarner 3y ago
      Consider that CPS etc al aren't known for de-escalation because that isn't news. We have no idea how many times they tell Karens and Kevins to stop interfering.
- kasey_junk 3y ago
  12 year olds use public transit to get to school daily here in Chicago.
  - pas 3y ago
    [flagged]
- moltar 3y ago
  In Europe it’s still normal. I very often see 10 year olds by themselves. Even in Montreal in more Eropean-value influences neighbourhoods (eg Plateau) you can see this. I was shocked (in a good way) to see 7-8 year olds walking by themselves to school. That’s after living in other Canadian cities for 20 years.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  Not the case in socal, tons of kids use the bus, lausd even gives out a free pass.
- RHSeeger 3y ago
  I guess it depends on where you are, because 12 year olds (and younger) certainly do things on their own around me. For example, they tend to meet up at the local ice cream place to hang out.
- kkfx 3y ago
  In Sweden it's normal to leave children outside a shop in a stroller, unattended, when you go shopping... And at 15 they can drive A-Traktor, i.e. any commercial car with an ODB speed limiting dongle and a sign showing it run in A-Traktor mode...
interludead 3y ago
Still remember my first independent bus ride

lotsofpulp 3y ago

A walkable and bike-able neighborhood will necessarily have to be dense enough such that public transit also makes sense.

josephd79 3y ago

12 year olds do not have that freedom anymore. People will flip out seeing kids that young doing something outside without adult supervision. They’ll call CPS on you.

GJim 3y ago
> They’ll call CPS on you. So what? What are they doing to do about it? Your post is incomplete. (Analogy: I can decide I don't like you farting in the street and call a policeman on you, though I doubt they would do anything about it either!)
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  The point is, this isn't a problem of kids. The kids' situation is a symptom. The problem is the adults and the hypocrisy. We say "Kids should be outside. They need more exercise and less screen time. They need more unstructured play time. Etc." But then we cry "Nooooo. Stranger danger" and phone CPS if a child is "free ranging." Furthermore, no parent wants to be known as the CPS parent. And certainly no kid wants to be their kid. What can CPS do? It doesn't matter.The question is: what will be the reaction of your parental peers, their kids, teachers, coaches, etc., and your kid.
  - GJim 3y ago
    > Furthermore, no parent wants to be known as the CPS parent Given the posts suggesting CPS is not fit for purpose, one should be proud of standing up to them, not ashamed.
- wingspar 3y ago
  They’re going to mess up your life. “ The debate over the actions of Danielle and Alexander Meitiv, of Silver Spring, began in December when state authorities started investigating them for letting their children walk to school by themselves. The Meitivs never thought letting their children, 10-year-old Rafi and 6-year-old Dvora, walk home from the park would spark a national discussion. The Silver Spring parents were interviewed when Montgomery County Child Protective Services began investigating them” https://www.wbaltv.com/article/parents-debate-cps-decision-for-free-range-maryland-parents/7092204 https://www.wbaltv.com/article/parents-debate-cps-decision-f... Apparently cleared, eventually, but …
- kkfx 3y ago
  Depending of the kind of bio-gas injected in the public place they might call NBC special operations and classify you as a public threat :D
- john_the_writer 3y ago
  And once CPS gets their hands on you, they always have you. It's worse than most STD's. Let your kids walk home, and spent the next 10 years being interviewed. A friend of mine got called out. Their kid almost never missed school, got good grades and the parents were on top of their development. Then ended up spending countless hours talking with CPS after they were caught letting their kids play at home, while they went to the corner shop.
hgomersall 3y ago
We need a new campaign to let kids live. I used to walk to get a train and then walk from the station to school at 9 without and adult supervision. I had other kids around me on that journey, but you just get on with it. I don't ever remember not being competent.
oliwarner 3y ago
I think this is okay. People make unreasonable complaints to all sorts of law enforcement, and as long as CPS is telling them to adjust their expectations, nothing bad has happened. That's the only way things will ever improve. Deliberately meeting the expectations of unreasonable people will only make things worse.
- pas 3y ago
  well, CPS (and other protection and service arms of the government) is not known for being famously good and competent at de-escalation :/ but yes, it's important to apply pressure to the bureaucracy (through - and to - the courts) too, to change the status quo. that said, when it comes to one's kids it's understandable that no one wants to "volunteer" their own kids for these challenges.
  - oliwarner 3y ago
    Consider that CPS etc al aren't known for de-escalation because that isn't news. We have no idea how many times they tell Karens and Kevins to stop interfering.
kasey_junk 3y ago
12 year olds use public transit to get to school daily here in Chicago.
- pas 3y ago
  [flagged]
moltar 3y ago
In Europe it’s still normal. I very often see 10 year olds by themselves. Even in Montreal in more Eropean-value influences neighbourhoods (eg Plateau) you can see this. I was shocked (in a good way) to see 7-8 year olds walking by themselves to school. That’s after living in other Canadian cities for 20 years.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
Not the case in socal, tons of kids use the bus, lausd even gives out a free pass.
RHSeeger 3y ago
I guess it depends on where you are, because 12 year olds (and younger) certainly do things on their own around me. For example, they tend to meet up at the local ice cream place to hang out.
kkfx 3y ago
In Sweden it's normal to leave children outside a shop in a stroller, unattended, when you go shopping... And at 15 they can drive A-Traktor, i.e. any commercial car with an ODB speed limiting dongle and a sign showing it run in A-Traktor mode...

interludead 3y ago

Still remember my first independent bus ride