14 ms·
Cindy Lee might be the future of music
- b0ner_t0ner 2y agoRelated: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/cindy-lee-diamond-jubilee/ https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/cindy-lee-diamond-jubil... And the GeoCities website: https://www.geocities.ws/ccqsk/ https://www.geocities.ws/ccqsk/
- Springtime 2y ago> "Diamond Jubilee" is not available on Spotify/Apple/Bandcamp etc. Digital WAV album files only available to DL via this website. It's curious they exclude their music from Bandcamp, which is very different among those other platforms listed and indie-friendly (not to mention far more attractive for customers who want to buy and own lossless music). Yet they then link their entire album for free on Youtube.
- saulpw 2y agoBandcamp was acquired by Epic Games in 2022 and then by Songtradr in 2023. Its ownership and management has become less different from those other platforms, and it's no longer seen as indie-friendly by people who pay attention to these things.
- jrajav 2y agoAnd yet they still regularly hold Bandcamp Fridays (0% commission) and haven't shown any signs of reducing or locking down functionality. The acquisitions are certainly worrying in theory, and it's worth keeping a close eye on their operations, but for practical purposes they're still one of the best distribution venues for artists in terms of 'bang for buck' (buck being your fans' attention).
- deeth_starr_v 2y agoI like it … but seems weird pitchfork fires all its staff and now we get a unicorn review. I’ll listen again tomorrow
- stavros 2y agoGrooveshark was the future of music, too bad it got shut down.
- wakeupcall 2y agoIt definitely was for me too, and because it had _everything_, thanks to piracy. I started listening mostly mainstream bands, because that's what I knew, and within a few months I was listening to absolutely random authors, genres and "things" I didn't know existed. And by that I mean stuff like old sega genesis video game music somebody uploaded - without even knowing what the genesis was. I never BOUGHT so much music since. It was eye opening for me how little I cared about radio/mainstream music after that. The closest I've found so far is soundcloud. Thanks in no small part due to the barely-working recommendation engine, which doesn't get stuck in a local maxima, frequently going offtrack in pleasant unexpected ways.
- cageface 2y agoSoulseek is still pretty good.
- shermozle 2y agoAnd the future of text is definitely not having an autoplay video of something completely unrelated follow you as you read down the page.
- klyrs 2y agoNo, I'm afraid that is the future of text. I've been complaining about this phenomenon for several years and it's only getting more popular.
- 8organicbits 2y agoFix your user agent. I'm using this one (on desktop at least) so I can open links directly in reader view using the right click context menu. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/reader-view/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/reader-view/
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- neuronic 2y agoSomething about this just really struck a nerve with me this Sunday morning. The music itself, which is phenomenal but also opening this GeoCities site. What a beautiful little gem today :)
- injidup 2y agoI have zero interest in going to a geo cities website to burnish my non existent hipster musical credentials. It's just a marketing stunt and evidently successful.
- defrost 2y agoIf it's working for the artist and returning more than the micro pennies of streaming plays more power to them. I'll continue to get my music via snail mail pianola rolls. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ZTrXAxZ-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ZTrXAxZ-g
- 48864w6ui 2y agoThe difference between hipsters and hobos is that a hobo spends two hours of pushing broom for their four-bit room.
- PopAlongKid 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Road_(song) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Road_(song)
- 082349872349872 2y agoif you all like picking, here's a contemporary interpretation of the tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwwAdB1Wl9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwwAdB1Wl9U (I am slightly disappointed that it didn't get covered in Me First and the Gimme Gimme's Love Their Country. Back in the day, my father tells me, the reefer cars were the best because (a) they used sawdust and hay to insulate the ice, providing a comfier ride than most wagons, and (b) the view, while sitting in the loading hatches, was panoramic)
- bitwize 2y agoIt's okay. You won't even get an opportunity to hear the best music. All that stuff is distributed by hand to DJs you've never heard of, who play it once at parties you'll never attend, and then put it into their collection never to be heard again by anyone.
- r721 2y ago"Diamond Jubilee" album is currently ranked as "#1 for 2024" on RateYourMusic: https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/cindy-lee/diamond-jubilee/ https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/cindy-lee/diamond-ju...
- Loughla 2y agoAnd this is yet another moment when I learn that musical taste is very personal and wildly different between individuals. Because I just listened to part of that album on YouTube (granted I only listened to the first half hour or so). And I hated it. It's boring, repetitive, and not that good. But that's my tastes. Musical taste is always so fascinating, and I legitimately believe the best way to get to know someone.
- squigz 2y agoWhat does one's musical tastes tell you about one's personality?
- gizajob 2y agoEveryone thinks they have good taste in music… because they only like what is to their taste.
- skyyler 2y agoI am acutely aware that the things I enjoy are not always the highest quality. I've always thought that having taste is knowing what's high quality and what is not. A lot of the things I enjoy are low quality. Yoo-hoo, for example. It's basically chocolate flavoured corn syrup water. I still allow myself enjoy one every now and then. It doesn't make my enjoyment of fine bourbon or wine any less.
- rotw 2y agoThe best and worst thing to happen to the album. It fully deserves the acclaim, but now loads of people are only going to listen to it through the prism of the hype rather than hear it for what it is
- gorgoiler 2y agoAriel Pink’s The Doldrums — another anthology of anachronistic nostalgia pop down sampled to AM radio quality — was released nearly 24 years ago. It is surprising to not see his work mentioned but maybe I’m not looking hard enough, or his cancellation has been too thorough?
- whstl 2y agoTrue. There's a revival of this kind of music/asthetic that happens every 10 or so years, people keep rediscovering it. Which is fine. But you can't mention this if you want to make it sound fresh. Either way, the lede here is the web 1.0 website and not the music per se, despite the article's title.
- rotw 2y agoCindy Lee isn't a retro revivalist IMO, their previous band Women already had that technique of using 1940s-60s songwriting form and warping it with a noisy, no-wave, DIY sensibility: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=673IaJZko9I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=673IaJZko9I Part of that sound was Chad VanGaalen producing Women's two albums, and he went on to produce Alvvays' debut album in a similar DIY, tape-saturated style. Women's other successor act, Preoccupations, pretty clearly shows the post-punk/noise-rock side of Women, so it's kind of interesting to see how the descendants have grown their own roots a decade after the band ended. Anyway my hot take is that Cindy Lee uses past conventions in an inside-out sort of way as a means to an end, rather than producing a retro-sounding surface as the end goal like Ariel Pink. It's not a style, it's an instrument.
- HDThoreaun 2y agoAriel Pink is completely done as far as music journalism is concerned. After that tucker interview you wont hear about him again from critics I think
- joshstrange 2y ago> "But where I'm at now, in my mind," Flegel said, "you just need some regulars. Some people who've got your back, are into what you're doing." This reminds me of "1,000 true fans" [0]. A concept I've always liked and been drawn to. The internet has made that more possible than ever with things like Patreon. There are a couple podcasts in way behind on that I still pay for simply because I like the hosts and want to support them, I'd love to see more of that. [0] https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/
- Valodim 2y agoSo how many things can one person be a true fan of, and what does that tell us about how many people can statistically have 1000 of them?
- twoodfin 2y agoAmericans spend on average about $3,500 annually on entertainment. If we benchmark success of the “true fan” model at $100k, that’s a $100 annual bar to be a true fan, which means the average American could be a true fan for a reasonable number of artists. What “reasonable” means determines the answer to the second question, but since we’re basically talking about the cost of a streaming service, 4 seems like a reasonable number that maps closely to today’s consumer behavior in that similar space. That’s about 1.2 billion aggregate “fanhoods”, which leaves room for 1.2 million artists if fans are distributed uniformly. But that’s extremely unlikely. Typically, this kind of interest and attention follows a power law curve, so the real number would be much, much lower. Hundreds, most likely. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm
- hinkley 2y agoI would be shocked if the answer to this is not tied up in Dunbar numbers. But whether it’s proportional or cumulative I cannot say. Could a person who is a true fan of World War I era postage stamp lore and still retain a full complement of social links or is there a quick point where the obsessions subtract from the total number of human contacts a person can sustain? Or is it like Sherlock Holmes whom Doyle made afraid of useless knowledge for fear of crowding out “important” things like the scent of every brand of smoking tobacco and the color and texture of every muddy spot in the United Kingsom?
- nutshell89 2y agoI'm not quite sure I get it, the album itself is kind of...mid? It's 2+ hours of an aggressively boring take on the previous decade's music ideals desperately in need of an editor. Honestly, it solidifies the ideal that with the vast quantity of new music released today, that if damn near every song isn't worth the listener's time, those songs don't belong on an album, they don't belong on a remix album, they don't belong on a deluxe edition, they really only have a place in live shows, livestreams, or anthologies when you're dead.
- greenie_beans 2y agowhat do u think of this song? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y59XYOjU1Hs&t=170s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y59XYOjU1Hs&t=170s
- deepspace 2y agoNot the person you are replying to, but that sounds like an attempt to combine Billy Eilish with Godspeed You Black Emperor, while not managing to capture the essence of either particularly well. The result is utterly uninspiring and boring.
- greenie_beans 2y agohave you ever heard of no wave ?
- nutshell89 2y agoI'm not sure why you set the track playback to the middle of song, but it feels very literal. There's the "suffering" starting from 2:50 or so from the distortion of the guitars — I guess it reminds me of 56k modems, maybe? But because that distortion fades completely by ~ 5:00, and the track ends at 7:30, it feels like 90 seconds of "dead space" so it feels incomplete if that makes any sense. It's a song which places its emphasis on the dead center of the track, but because it doesn't build on the distortion or play off of it — it kind of overstays it's welcome.
- 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ikesau 2y agoI've loved Pat's music for 15 years now. There's an obsessive passion in the people who are into him, trawling for bootlegs and demos on soulseek, binge watching old Women live shows on YT. my friends excitedly recount the email conversations they've had with him, and hell yeah, wavs up for free e-transfer him if you can. Regardless of whether you like the music, I think the larger object of his art and our reaction to it is terrific and I wish more people could create, discover, and relate to art this way.
- msephton 2y agoI got caught up in this hype when this album hit number one of the year so far on rateyourmusic (think of it as letterboxd but for music). So I downloaded it, converted it to a format I could add to Music.app and play on my iPhone (for this reason alone it's not the future of music), listened to it, was distinctly unimpressed, so deleted it. It sounded too derivative. Since I've heard new music by other artists that did a lot more for me.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago> Since I've heard new music by other artists that did a lot more for me. Feel free to drop names. I'm all ears (ha ha).
- msephton 2y agoMy favourites of the year so far... album: Yo Irie "Love Affair" single: LAGHEADS "Your Light" most anticipated album: Hazel English A playlist from last year: https://blog.gingerbeardman.com/2023/12/31/japanese-music-recommendations-2023/ https://blog.gingerbeardman.com/2023/12/31/japanese-music-re...
- rotw 2y agoSee, all of those sound "derivative" to me. Absolutely nothing against Japanese yacht rock/soft funk, but it's silly to blame musicians for using genre conventions when those are inherently part of the musical language IMO. Particularly given Cindy Lee works with 1940s-60s pop genre conventions of girl groups and also performs in drag, it's inherently a kind of music that repurposes familiar elements to say something new. I've been a fan of Cindy Lee's work since before they started the project and were in the band Women, who're a sort of your favourites' favourite artist. Part of the hype around Diamond Jubilee is the context of that band, and the development of successor bands since. But part of the hype is also that it comes from a very sincere place - it's a full-on auteurist work, the antithesis of "lo fi chill hip hop beats to study/relax to". It can aesthetically or artistically be your thing or not (it very much is mine), but it's a breath of fresh air to have such a fully-realized artistic statement that isn't a focus-grouped, try-hard Event get the acclaim it deserves.
- xil3 2y agoYou think this is the future of music? https://youtu.be/AG8fJ50sxR8?si=jTsAS_siwnvXCLj2 https://youtu.be/AG8fJ50sxR8?si=jTsAS_siwnvXCLj2
- FrustratedMonky 2y agoDid anyone pick up vibes here of Pattern Recognition from William Gibson? The use of old web1 web sites, small quirky art pieces being left on back corners of internet to only be appreciated by small group 'in the know', the 1000 true fans.
- 082349872349872 2y agoIf that's web1, what might the other integers be? web0: blue/purple links in black text on grey, with occasional HRs web-1: MacPaint/Hypercard web-2: -=> T E X T f i l e s <=- web-n: illuminated parchments web-2n: cuneiform tablets web-3n: bullae labels web-4n: cave paintings
- FrustratedMonky 2y agoMaybe add Printing Press. Gutenberg Bible. I'd vote for Printing Press to be some 'zero' point.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ricokatayama 2y agoJack Conte was very spot on in his SXSW talk this year https://youtu.be/5zUndMfMInc?si=2SqvZIyYi7QLKqmV https://youtu.be/5zUndMfMInc?si=2SqvZIyYi7QLKqmV
- msephton 2y agoTL;DR recommends using Patreon and avoiding platforms with algorithmic feeds (disclaimer: the speaker is the creator of Patreon)
- mynegation 2y agoThe music itself sounds more like the past than the future of music and I guess indie is just not my cup of tea, but as a fan of some other obscure bands and styles, I can relate. Even then I do not think it is the future of music distribution, more like marketing gimmick. I am a software developer and I still dread the idea of making downloaded files available on my iPhone. If it is not on Spotify it may just as well not exist.
- Semaphor 2y agoIt’s a bit different, but Indian extreme metal label Transcending Obscurity has had several bands release two days early on bandcamp (I know for sure about Vorga [0] and Replicant [1]), and indie black metal band Adon [2] simply decided to stay bandcamp exclusive for a week before releasing on streaming platforms. I very much appreciate those :) There are, usually big-ish and famous-ish, bands who do the opposite, only release on streaming, leaving me no way to buy the album, also those only releasing on something like Amazon (which then requires me to get the disk to rip it myself, raising the buy-rating for me from 3.5 to 4/5), and of course also Japanese artists who often don’t seem to care about western audiences at all with their music only available on Japanese sites. [0]: https://vorgaband.bandcamp.com/album/beyond-the-palest-star https://vorgaband.bandcamp.com/album/beyond-the-palest-star [1]: https://replicantband.bandcamp.com/album/infinite-mortality https://replicantband.bandcamp.com/album/infinite-mortality [2]: https://adonmetal.bandcamp.com/album/adon https://adonmetal.bandcamp.com/album/adon
- evo_9 2y agoThese comments are embarrassing. It’s a landmark album and being recognized as such by critics and us lifelong hardcore music fans. You see it’s not for any of you, or rather very few. It’s a sort of love letter to me and my ilk, aka those of us that started collecting records when we were teens and went on to own indie record stores in the 80/90s and early 2000 before most of them were shuttered. There are hints of Spacemen 3, Velvet Underground, hell even some more obscure nods to forgotten bands like Boo Radley, Crime and The City Solution and many many more. If you are not steeped in musical experience this record will not land with you. But for me and about 6 of my oldest collector friends (all in our 50s now) this is a towering achievement by a single person that wrote nearly every note on the record. On top of all that there is the utterly brilliant GeoCities website with its decidedly Twin Peaks vibe and oh so much fun to blade runner zoom around. Brilliance like this shines only a few times in life and us ex NeptureRecords and Play It Again forgotten staff and friends of those great record stores are having the time of our lives listening to the entries 2+ hours daily.
- indigodaddy 2y agoI hear you. For example, I literally cannot find anyone I interact with who has even heard of this band called Islands (Nick Thorburn), but they are probably my favorite band of all time.
- evanelias 2y agoI was initially surprised to read this sentiment, since his prior band The Unicorns was relatively popular in indie rock circles. Then I realized that was a full two decades ago, and I suddenly felt old...
- indigodaddy 2y agoImo Return to The Sea is a masterpiece, but also confess to live all subsequent Islands albums. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_the_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_the_Sea
- Solvency 2y ago
- indigodaddy 2y agoIt’s interesting music. Two tracks through, I’m not exactly sure how/what to think about it, but I’ll keep listening for now. Maybe Beck meets Lord Huron meets Bill Callahan?
- _jcrossley 2y agoToday's a great day - what a delightful 2000's throwback on all fronts. I wonder if there's any connection between this article and the rumored Pitchfork -> GQ reorg.
- m3kw9 2y agoIn the pre-streaming era, Radio Heads In Rainbow is one of the best albums and it was distributed as a pay what you want. It’s a cut the middle man move, it may be more trouble than it’s worth because the distribution channel is a pain to setup
- sandyarmstrong 2y agoYeah, that was really cool. A couple of years before that, Harvey Danger (yes, the Flagpole Sitta band) literally released their album Little by Little on BitTorrent. I loved that move, and it also happened to be a great album.
- m3kw9 2y agoIn the future if artists can get their way, they would release this as an exclusive for 2 weeks on a site then release it on streaming. 1. People would pay to listen to it first. 2. People will still use stream to listen subsequently as it is easier. Negative side is that streaming service may not like it, and people will spin it as a rip off even if it technically isn’t.
- solomonb 2y agoI feel strongly that the future of media content will be a search for human authenticity buried under an ocean of generic generated content.
- VelesDude 2y agoCurrently we question if it is AI, eventually we will question if it is a person. The problem I see if that many will try to use shock value alone to try and stand out from the AI materials and that will be a whole different issue.
- gizajob 2y agoHuman authenticity doesn’t easily boil down to being “content” so there’s likely to be major issues resulting from your definitions. Humans are also easily found, being human and authentic, in the real world. The online one is destined to become an AI nightmare of human-free generative “content” from this point onwards.
- dartos 2y agoMaybe in public spaces, but in private online spaces human creativity is alive and well. Game devs are deving games. Music makers make music. Artists still sell commissions. Hell, even in some more AI focused discord servers I’m in, I see people doing cool things with AI images and more traditional image bashing and masking afterwards. What’s going on is that the creators of these big public platforms finally found a “holy grail” use case for the ~20 years of human communication and behavioral data they’ve been collecting.
- solomonb 2y ago> Human authenticity doesn’t easily boil down to being “content” so there’s likely to be major issues resulting from your definitions. I didn't claim human authenticity is equal to content creation. I meant that with the further rise of 'AI nightmare human free generative content' as you perfectly describe it, there will be a backlash where people seek out more authentic experiences. You can already see this as a reaction to social media where people gravitate towards private group chats and discord servers. > Humans are also easily found, being human and authentic, in the real world I think you underestimate how much of our lives our influenced by the online world. Digital media saturates our lives. That said, I would love to imagine people gravitating towards local community as a reaction of the death of the internet. I'm actually in the process of starting an LPFM radio station. > The online one is destined to become an AI nightmare of human-free generative “content” from this point onwards. Well said.
- coldtea 2y ago[flagged]
- dublinben 2y agoNo kidding. This admission feels like a professional food critic whining that McDonalds isn’t available on DoorDash. This music isn’t my cup of tea, but this guy sounds like a real poser.
- aqme28 2y agoThis is, I think, the same idea that has given vinyl such a strong resurgence in the last few years.
- greentxt 2y agoExciting! “Cindy Lee, a 32-song left-of-center”. Political music is ok. I love Peter Paul and Mary! But it ain’t the future. It’s retro; retrograde.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- winternett 2y agoI like Prince, have since I was a kid, but I'm not a "Fan" of Prince... I like his music. The problem is that Pop musicians grow and cultivate fans maybe, kids and people that will buy and collect anything an artist sells... Problem is that those Pop fans quickly grow out of it as they get older and often find there's no benefit in collecting things from a fallible character persona. They the artist either retires and fades away (until their unfortunate demise is reported on the news), or keeps going on tour until some embarrassing things begin to happen, like stage tumbles and mental breakdowns. As a musician myself, I don't want fans, I just want a vast audience to hear my music so that a percentage of people out of it connect with it and collect it. No merchandising involved beyond the music, and streaming it is free... Social media dictates that all musicians need fans to grow, and that is toxic towards good authentic music happening. Major labels manufacture artists, and assemble teams of people that take actors and turn them into musicians, then the marketing machine makes up entire stories, and even lies about these musicians that can't hold up when the budget runs out. If you recall Milli Vanilli, that's just one instance of manufactured artistry. Now with Ai, it's just Milli Vanilli without collateral damage and artists to pay, the good thing though is the whole charade only works for Pop music, and it may entertain fans for short periods of time, as seen with pretty much all the BackStreet Boys, No comebacks Alright! I'm glad I don't make Pop music, and I'm working to make timeless music, the POP life is not for me.
- shiroiushi 2y ago>As a musician myself, I don't want fans, I just want a vast audience to hear my music so that a percentage of people out of it connect with it and collect it. No merchandising involved beyond the music, and streaming it is free... Social media dictates that all musicians need fans to grow, and that is toxic towards good authentic music happening. If you don't make any money from distributing your music or from merchandising, how exactly do you make a living? It sounds like you're not a professional musician. Professionals could make a living just from selling concert tickets, but they need to be popular enough to have a strong following and sell a LOT of tickets when they play a venue. >I'm glad I don't make Pop music, and I'm working to make timeless music, the POP life is not for me. The music I listen to isn't so popular these days, but these bands still generally need to make a living if they want to be full-time musicians, and they typically do it with concert tours and merchandise. (Streaming and CD sales seem to be mostly only good for advertising for them.)
- autoexec 2y ago> I like Diamond Jubilee and am happy to pay for music, but downloading files and loading them onto my iPhone feels archaic and time-consuming. Itunes will do that to you. Everybody else had their phone show up like a USB drive and just one drag/drop operation later were on their way.
- advael 2y agoI see this shift as a tech hype wave finally having its bubble burst under how shit a deal it is for everyone but the middlemen. Then again, I guess a lot of people actually like streaming services for music? This is alien to me. I just straight up never got into streaming music services. I've never had or wanted a spotify account. I think my use of automated discovery tools consisted of trying last.fm recommendations for a while. For the most part I like discovering music by word of mouth or bands touring together or through random happenstance. When listening to music on purpose I prefer to curate it myself from what I have in my collection (Which is mostly digital and I manage it through a filesystem. Most cloud file storage has a garbage featureset compared to like vanilla POSIX, let alone everything we've invented for file management on computers since). Sometimes, if I don't have something, I'll go try to find it specifically on Bandcamp or Youtube, but especially on the former I'm likely to buy it if I ever want it twice, and this is only untrue for the latter because stuff on youtube doesn't usually have a clear way to give the artist money, making it often easier to pirate than buy. I suppose I could still buy and rip CDs, but my last remaining optical drive is over a decade old and it's kind of inconvenient to do that I'm not trying to be elitist or anything here. It genuinely baffles me that so many people prefer to just have a random stream of music play at them based on what some recommender system thinks they won't turn off, interspersed with ads or for a monthly subscription service that may average out to slightly less than I spend on music (but I'm pretty novelty-seeking and really like supporting artists when I can, so I think I'm above-average in how much new music I will buy). That's not even considering how bad it is for the artists, how it's yet another piece of a surveillance web, etc. I know people mostly ignore that stuff, and that there's a lot of industry dollars going into making it easier to ignore. But the baseline use case just seems obnoxious rather than pleasant or useful. I don't know how to reconcile the fact that my preferences seem really far outside the norm without explicitly trying to be contrarian about it. What do people like about this stuff?