6 ms·

On Terry A. Davis

113 points by djaouen 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
radical_kidd369 3y ago
[flagged]
ImaCake 3y ago
It's great to see someone with schizophrenia writing about the disorder. It's (relatively) easy to find patient voices for most psychiatric disorders, but very difficult with schizophrenia due to the severity of the condition. I've passed your blog along to some researchers and my network :)
- djaouen 3y ago
  I also have some other resources for schizophrenic programmers, if you are interested. In particular, [1]. [1] https://schizophrenic.io/blog/jobs https://schizophrenic.io/blog/jobs
vletrmx 3y ago
> While it did have some recreational value, it did not provide a product that people could use that would enrich their lives. Because providing a 'product' is the sole criterion for success? The author is missing the point and doesn't understand TempleOS.
- oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
  It may sound like the writer is implying lack of financial success is bad, but I don't think that's their intention. I think the word "product" is just a filler here - it could equally be "something" or "an executable".
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    What's the recreational value without an executable? Just watching his videos? Then surely the videos are the product.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - rrssh 3y ago
      That's probably what they mean, only the videos have any worth.
      - AlecSchueler 3y ago
        In that case the videos are the product. But the author has since clarified here in the comments that they did actually mean the commercial value of OS itself.
- zoky 3y ago
  I think the author is just trying to say that the reason TempleOS didn’t receive widespread—or virtually any—regular use has more to do with its lack of inherent utility to most people, rather than a conspiracy to suppress its adoption as Terry apparently believed.
- Gare 3y ago
  > Where I disagree with him is in his insistence that there was a grand conspiracy to hold back his operating system, perhaps orchestrated by the CIA. Sound like Terry himself wanted it to be successful?
- lukan 3y ago
  "Because providing a 'product' is the sole criterion for success?" Wasn't the OS made to be used by people for real and not just as a toy? Could people use it for real? As a daily driver to get things done? (A real product) I do not think so, so what do you think what was the point of TempleOS then?
  - codetrotter 3y ago
    > what was the point of TempleOS From what I’ve seen from videos where Terry was talking about TempleOS, it seems that a large part of the point of the OS and the programs that shipped with it was as a way of “talking to god”. Where he’d run a program and it would generate some random output and he said that those were words from god. I have to assume that this was very much because of his condition. Either way, a temple to god is part of what this OS was. TempleOS. Furthermore, TempleOS validated many of his ideas of how an OS could be built differently from how many other OSes are made. TempleOS is like a modern day Amiga or Commodore 64 operating system. And I could easily imagine a world in which TempleOS was distributed preinstalled on some kind of non-networked home computer that they could have in Sunday schools around the world, as a tool for bible study and as a way of learning about computers, engaging youth who are interested in technology.
    - xanderlewis 3y ago
      > he’d run a program and it would generate some random output and he said that those were words from god. I have to assume that this was very much because of his condition. I actually think that seems perfectly internally consistent from the perspective of someone who seriously believes in a god. If (pseudo)random numbers and therefore the output of that program aren’t controlled by god, what is?
      - jamesu 3y ago
        It amazes me how much terry latched onto that idea, even binding the "god says" functionality to the F7 key in TempleOS. Sometimes I wonder how he would have reacted to ChatGPT and LLMs.
- skissane 3y ago
  One thing that makes TempleOS less approachable is the extreme idiosyncrasy of some of its design decisions - e.g. limiting it to 640x480 with 16 colours even though supporting higher resolution and colour depth would have been little extra work, an intentionally very garish user interface, refusing to implement any networking support for ideological reasons. It was never going to be a mainstream OS, but it might have attracted a larger community of tinkerers if it were not for those decisions. (There are forks which improve some of these aspects, but a fork is never going to be as popular as the original.) That said, extreme idiosyncrasy is relatively common in schizophrenia.
  - kqr 3y ago
    Well, that doesn't seem to stop users of fantasy consoles, so I'm not sure it's as a big problem for a userbase as you think.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    It's the idiosyncrasies that make it notable surely.
    - ahahahahah 3y ago
      It's not notable.
      - AlecSchueler 3y ago
        Then why is it frequently shared and discussed etc.? That is, frequently noted.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        Because internet loves mystery and hype? Ask your colleagues if they heard about, and if they heard about it what is noticeable about it. Majority of internet see “Ooh, that’s not Linux, Windows, Mac and has a lot of custom things written from scratch”. And also funni racist genius schizo.
- djaouen 3y ago
  I am not saying that TempleOS wasn't a technical marvel. It was. I am merely stating the fact that its usage was (mainly) limited to recreation. Not that that's a bad thing, but my own ambition is to produce something with more than margi... small product-market fit. Edit: I'm sorry if I come across as arrogant. I still have the "decoration" (programming-wise) of my elite education I am trying to trim. :(
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - djaouen 3y ago
      Sigh.
    - VS1999 3y ago
      This is your third nearly identical post in this thread. Is it so important to you that people don't find value in something you think isn't notable?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        I’m not them, but parroting something without having any substance behind it is how myths are born.
        bheadmaster 3y ago
        How is replying with just "no, it wasn't" without any elaboration better? Or how will it help stop the spread of the myth? It won't change anyone's mind, that's for sure.
        wiseowise 3y ago
YPPH 3y ago
Not to trivialise his achievement, but I'd be willing to wager any moderately competent systems programmer, if given 10+ years and no other commitments (work or family) could write a programming language, compiler, and real mode operating system for an x86_64 system. Side note, why were Ticketmaster hiring systems programmers writing such low level code? I grew up in the 90s/00s so missed this era of computing.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- thinkingemote 3y ago
  The question is why more people have not done it. A bit like picassos answer to someone saying to him about his art "I could have done that!!" being "why haven't you?" I would put templeos at the same level as art in that it's the creation and life rather than the craft or utility. Or in other words there is something transcendental about the project which would go beyond (but not technically) something a competent systems programmer should write as a hobby. Art Vs craft has more of an artist inside of it. Noone else could have written templeos.
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - bingbingbing777 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        CIA who?
        cess11 3y ago
        Might be a riff on https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-... .
astrobe_ 3y ago
> Let’s be clear: schizophrenia does not cause racism Depends on the type of racism. If it's a false sense of superiority - probably the most common type of racism - well, maybe. But if it's the belief that some type of people are hostile to you for some reason, and your personality makes it so that you return it, then it is a persecutory delusion, just like conspiracy theories.
- silisili 3y ago
  I'll just note that while Terry loved the word, he didn't ever really seem to use it as a racist slur, except by coincidence. He just directed it at anyone and anything he didn't like.
  - ghnws 3y ago
    People also use extremely offensive language (including racial slurs, but not limited to them) under drugs, alcohol etc. because the words are extreme and nothing else. Using a racial slur does not necessarily make one a racist.
    - valianteffort 3y ago
      It's more than a stretch to say people using slurs are racist. These are symptoms of a hypersensitive culture that rewards pseudo-virtuous people who publicly call out "racism". I grew up with a diverse group of friends, we used every slur under the sun to shit talk eachother and still do when being idiots. Those slurs have no meaning to us beyond the comedic value they provide in their vulgarity. I'd be shocked to discover any of us were racist, pretty strange to have not noticed after >20 years.
- valianteffort 3y ago
  [flagged]
- skissane 3y ago
  Schizophrenia absolutely can induce racism in some people. Schizophrenia (and other related disorders) can induce in some people obsessive socially unacceptable thoughts, which can include racist thoughts. It doesn't happen to everyone with schizophrenia – there are plenty of people with schizophrenia who aren't racist. And even if a person with schizophrenia is racist, it isn't necessarily due to their schizophrenia – they could well be racist for the same reasons many people without schizophrenia are racist. But that said, there absolutely are some people who aren't racist, and then they have a psychotic episode, and as a result of that psychotic episode they develop racist delusions/obsessions. This can take the form of persecutory delusions, but not always. Schizophrenic delusions can take make many forms other than just persecutory, so in some people schizophrenia can induce non-persecutory racist delusions.
pwiffo 3y ago
The BBC published a radio documentary on Terry Davis a few years back, after his death: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4r3 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4r3
simongr3dal 3y ago
Thanks for posting. The rest of the blog is also short and sweet, I’m struggling a bit with self worth and self criticism so I found it very touching and relatable. It’s kind of interesting how I’ve come to expect blog posts to be much longer since microblogging pretty much exists exclusively on social media.
ThinkBeat 3y ago
""This is one person who has a similar diagnosis to Terry who then goes on to say "I dont have these .... symptoms"". Good for you. I am happy for you. (truly) But to then extend that to everyone with a similar diagnosis, as some form of universal fact is entirely wrong. Delusion and paranoid delusions are common symptoms of schizophrenia¹. Common does not mean everyone for sure has them, just that many do. In so far as schizophrenia does not make you racists that is true, but you do not get to pick your delusions. They may be an amplification of existing opinions, but for many they are not. Further to blame a person who is delusional for having a view of the world that is not normal, well that is the entire description of delusions. Can you blame a person who stutters for stuttering? Thus one should extend a lot of tolerance to a person who has a terrible illness that no way is self-afflicted and one that we do not yet have a dependable cure for. I am certain that at some point in this life Terry desperately wished to be “normal”. Farther into it, and getting deeper into the illness the understanding of normal vs abnormal may be a difficult concept to understand for the person. I have had schizophrenia in my family, and I have visited her at the hospital. Where there were a lot of other schizophrenics. Clearly only those who suffer a lot and who may become violent ad self-harming, ends up at such a place long term. Some of the people there had an incredibly different reality that they existed within. We should extend a generous amount of tolerance for people who are ill and suffer from this. To get angry and tell them to stop and tell then they are wrong may well cause a deeper fall into paranoia. This is not something people chose. Nor is it something we have a reliable cure for. Some can be greatly helped with medication and / or therapy. Other not. ¹ https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/schizophrenia/symptoms/ https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/schizophrenia/sy... https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/schizophrenia/what-is-schizophrenia https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/schizophrenia/w...
soygem 3y ago
RIP Terry Davis. And remember that feds glow in the dark.
barbs 3y ago
I believe Terry was an intelligent man and a beautiful soul, struggling with severe mental illness. I had the pleasure of interacting with him in the form of creating a GIMP plugin for his custom image file format. https://michaelbarlow.com.au/gra-plugin/ https://michaelbarlow.com.au/gra-plugin/
ugjka 3y ago
As schizophrenic myself i feel like Terry has became a meme but without anyone ever realizing what terrible condition he was in and he was in a terrible country that has no safety nets and basic healthcare for people like him
- westmeal 3y ago
  Yeah and 4chan didn't help either as usual. Well, some people tried to - but on the whole people just treated him as another thing to laugh at. RIP terry.
marginalia_nu 3y ago
Terry is a bit of a hero of mine. He's definitely a tragic character, almost Shakespearean, with all manner of flaws, and he got dealt a really rotten hand in life, but there's just something about the determination with which he pursued his unique vision through hell or high water that really appeals to me.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
trallnag 3y ago
[dead]

On Terry A. Davis

113 points by djaouen 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

radical_kidd369 3y ago

[flagged]

ImaCake 3y ago

It's great to see someone with schizophrenia writing about the disorder. It's (relatively) easy to find patient voices for most psychiatric disorders, but very difficult with schizophrenia due to the severity of the condition. I've passed your blog along to some researchers and my network :)

djaouen 3y ago
I also have some other resources for schizophrenic programmers, if you are interested. In particular, [1]. [1] https://schizophrenic.io/blog/jobs https://schizophrenic.io/blog/jobs

vletrmx 3y ago

> While it did have some recreational value, it did not provide a product that people could use that would enrich their lives. Because providing a 'product' is the sole criterion for success? The author is missing the point and doesn't understand TempleOS.

oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
It may sound like the writer is implying lack of financial success is bad, but I don't think that's their intention. I think the word "product" is just a filler here - it could equally be "something" or "an executable".
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  What's the recreational value without an executable? Just watching his videos? Then surely the videos are the product.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - rrssh 3y ago
    That's probably what they mean, only the videos have any worth.
    - AlecSchueler 3y ago
      In that case the videos are the product. But the author has since clarified here in the comments that they did actually mean the commercial value of OS itself.
zoky 3y ago
I think the author is just trying to say that the reason TempleOS didn’t receive widespread—or virtually any—regular use has more to do with its lack of inherent utility to most people, rather than a conspiracy to suppress its adoption as Terry apparently believed.
Gare 3y ago
> Where I disagree with him is in his insistence that there was a grand conspiracy to hold back his operating system, perhaps orchestrated by the CIA. Sound like Terry himself wanted it to be successful?
lukan 3y ago
"Because providing a 'product' is the sole criterion for success?" Wasn't the OS made to be used by people for real and not just as a toy? Could people use it for real? As a daily driver to get things done? (A real product) I do not think so, so what do you think what was the point of TempleOS then?
- codetrotter 3y ago
  > what was the point of TempleOS From what I’ve seen from videos where Terry was talking about TempleOS, it seems that a large part of the point of the OS and the programs that shipped with it was as a way of “talking to god”. Where he’d run a program and it would generate some random output and he said that those were words from god. I have to assume that this was very much because of his condition. Either way, a temple to god is part of what this OS was. TempleOS. Furthermore, TempleOS validated many of his ideas of how an OS could be built differently from how many other OSes are made. TempleOS is like a modern day Amiga or Commodore 64 operating system. And I could easily imagine a world in which TempleOS was distributed preinstalled on some kind of non-networked home computer that they could have in Sunday schools around the world, as a tool for bible study and as a way of learning about computers, engaging youth who are interested in technology.
  - xanderlewis 3y ago
    > he’d run a program and it would generate some random output and he said that those were words from god. I have to assume that this was very much because of his condition. I actually think that seems perfectly internally consistent from the perspective of someone who seriously believes in a god. If (pseudo)random numbers and therefore the output of that program aren’t controlled by god, what is?
    - jamesu 3y ago
      It amazes me how much terry latched onto that idea, even binding the "god says" functionality to the F7 key in TempleOS. Sometimes I wonder how he would have reacted to ChatGPT and LLMs.
skissane 3y ago
One thing that makes TempleOS less approachable is the extreme idiosyncrasy of some of its design decisions - e.g. limiting it to 640x480 with 16 colours even though supporting higher resolution and colour depth would have been little extra work, an intentionally very garish user interface, refusing to implement any networking support for ideological reasons. It was never going to be a mainstream OS, but it might have attracted a larger community of tinkerers if it were not for those decisions. (There are forks which improve some of these aspects, but a fork is never going to be as popular as the original.) That said, extreme idiosyncrasy is relatively common in schizophrenia.
- kqr 3y ago
  Well, that doesn't seem to stop users of fantasy consoles, so I'm not sure it's as a big problem for a userbase as you think.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  It's the idiosyncrasies that make it notable surely.
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    It's not notable.
    - AlecSchueler 3y ago
      Then why is it frequently shared and discussed etc.? That is, frequently noted.
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        Because internet loves mystery and hype? Ask your colleagues if they heard about, and if they heard about it what is noticeable about it. Majority of internet see “Ooh, that’s not Linux, Windows, Mac and has a lot of custom things written from scratch”. And also funni racist genius schizo.
djaouen 3y ago
I am not saying that TempleOS wasn't a technical marvel. It was. I am merely stating the fact that its usage was (mainly) limited to recreation. Not that that's a bad thing, but my own ambition is to produce something with more than margi... small product-market fit. Edit: I'm sorry if I come across as arrogant. I still have the "decoration" (programming-wise) of my elite education I am trying to trim. :(
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - djaouen 3y ago
    Sigh.
  - VS1999 3y ago
    This is your third nearly identical post in this thread. Is it so important to you that people don't find value in something you think isn't notable?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      I’m not them, but parroting something without having any substance behind it is how myths are born.
      - bheadmaster 3y ago
        How is replying with just "no, it wasn't" without any elaboration better? Or how will it help stop the spread of the myth? It won't change anyone's mind, that's for sure.
        wiseowise 3y ago

YPPH 3y ago

Not to trivialise his achievement, but I'd be willing to wager any moderately competent systems programmer, if given 10+ years and no other commitments (work or family) could write a programming language, compiler, and real mode operating system for an x86_64 system. Side note, why were Ticketmaster hiring systems programmers writing such low level code? I grew up in the 90s/00s so missed this era of computing.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
thinkingemote 3y ago
The question is why more people have not done it. A bit like picassos answer to someone saying to him about his art "I could have done that!!" being "why haven't you?" I would put templeos at the same level as art in that it's the creation and life rather than the craft or utility. Or in other words there is something transcendental about the project which would go beyond (but not technically) something a competent systems programmer should write as a hobby. Art Vs craft has more of an artist inside of it. Noone else could have written templeos.
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - bingbingbing777 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      CIA who?
      - cess11 3y ago
        Might be a riff on https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-... .

astrobe_ 3y ago

> Let’s be clear: schizophrenia does not cause racism Depends on the type of racism. If it's a false sense of superiority - probably the most common type of racism - well, maybe. But if it's the belief that some type of people are hostile to you for some reason, and your personality makes it so that you return it, then it is a persecutory delusion, just like conspiracy theories.

silisili 3y ago
I'll just note that while Terry loved the word, he didn't ever really seem to use it as a racist slur, except by coincidence. He just directed it at anyone and anything he didn't like.
- ghnws 3y ago
  People also use extremely offensive language (including racial slurs, but not limited to them) under drugs, alcohol etc. because the words are extreme and nothing else. Using a racial slur does not necessarily make one a racist.
  - valianteffort 3y ago
    It's more than a stretch to say people using slurs are racist. These are symptoms of a hypersensitive culture that rewards pseudo-virtuous people who publicly call out "racism". I grew up with a diverse group of friends, we used every slur under the sun to shit talk eachother and still do when being idiots. Those slurs have no meaning to us beyond the comedic value they provide in their vulgarity. I'd be shocked to discover any of us were racist, pretty strange to have not noticed after >20 years.
valianteffort 3y ago
[flagged]
skissane 3y ago
Schizophrenia absolutely can induce racism in some people. Schizophrenia (and other related disorders) can induce in some people obsessive socially unacceptable thoughts, which can include racist thoughts. It doesn't happen to everyone with schizophrenia – there are plenty of people with schizophrenia who aren't racist. And even if a person with schizophrenia is racist, it isn't necessarily due to their schizophrenia – they could well be racist for the same reasons many people without schizophrenia are racist. But that said, there absolutely are some people who aren't racist, and then they have a psychotic episode, and as a result of that psychotic episode they develop racist delusions/obsessions. This can take the form of persecutory delusions, but not always. Schizophrenic delusions can take make many forms other than just persecutory, so in some people schizophrenia can induce non-persecutory racist delusions.

pwiffo 3y ago

The BBC published a radio documentary on Terry Davis a few years back, after his death: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4r3 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4r3

simongr3dal 3y ago

Thanks for posting. The rest of the blog is also short and sweet, I’m struggling a bit with self worth and self criticism so I found it very touching and relatable. It’s kind of interesting how I’ve come to expect blog posts to be much longer since microblogging pretty much exists exclusively on social media.

ThinkBeat 3y ago

""This is one person who has a similar diagnosis to Terry who then goes on to say "I dont have these .... symptoms"". Good for you. I am happy for you. (truly) But to then extend that to everyone with a similar diagnosis, as some form of universal fact is entirely wrong. Delusion and paranoid delusions are common symptoms of schizophrenia¹. Common does not mean everyone for sure has them, just that many do. In so far as schizophrenia does not make you racists that is true, but you do not get to pick your delusions. They may be an amplification of existing opinions, but for many they are not. Further to blame a person who is delusional for having a view of the world that is not normal, well that is the entire description of delusions. Can you blame a person who stutters for stuttering? Thus one should extend a lot of tolerance to a person who has a terrible illness that no way is self-afflicted and one that we do not yet have a dependable cure for. I am certain that at some point in this life Terry desperately wished to be “normal”. Farther into it, and getting deeper into the illness the understanding of normal vs abnormal may be a difficult concept to understand for the person. I have had schizophrenia in my family, and I have visited her at the hospital. Where there were a lot of other schizophrenics. Clearly only those who suffer a lot and who may become violent ad self-harming, ends up at such a place long term. Some of the people there had an incredibly different reality that they existed within. We should extend a generous amount of tolerance for people who are ill and suffer from this. To get angry and tell them to stop and tell then they are wrong may well cause a deeper fall into paranoia. This is not something people chose. Nor is it something we have a reliable cure for. Some can be greatly helped with medication and / or therapy. Other not. ¹ https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/schizophrenia/symptoms/ https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/schizophrenia/sy... https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/schizophrenia/what-is-schizophrenia https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/schizophrenia/w...

soygem 3y ago

RIP Terry Davis. And remember that feds glow in the dark.

barbs 3y ago

I believe Terry was an intelligent man and a beautiful soul, struggling with severe mental illness. I had the pleasure of interacting with him in the form of creating a GIMP plugin for his custom image file format. https://michaelbarlow.com.au/gra-plugin/ https://michaelbarlow.com.au/gra-plugin/

ugjka 3y ago

As schizophrenic myself i feel like Terry has became a meme but without anyone ever realizing what terrible condition he was in and he was in a terrible country that has no safety nets and basic healthcare for people like him

westmeal 3y ago
Yeah and 4chan didn't help either as usual. Well, some people tried to - but on the whole people just treated him as another thing to laugh at. RIP terry.

marginalia_nu 3y ago

Terry is a bit of a hero of mine. He's definitely a tragic character, almost Shakespearean, with all manner of flaws, and he got dealt a really rotten hand in life, but there's just something about the determination with which he pursued his unique vision through hell or high water that really appeals to me.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

trallnag 3y ago

[dead]