9 ms·

God damn it people. I just want to search the web. You aren't doing anything meaningful by giving me yet another fuzzy robot question machine. Just let me searc

God damn it people. I just want to search the web. You aren't doing anything meaningful by giving me yet another fuzzy robot question machine. Just let me search the web. Queries in, web pages out.

doublerabbit 2y ago
That now costs $10 (Kagi) Complex AI for free, basic search for a fee!
- mostlysimilar 2y ago
  I'm a current Kagi subscriber and agree the search is excellent. Unfortunately Kagi is also wasting their time on AI bullshit, so I suspect it's a short-lived oasis.
  - jantissler 2y ago
    I became a Kagi subscriber mostly for the "AI bullshit", especially the Summarizer.
  - nikolay 2y ago
    I also didn't use Kagi AI until I found out that I get a better deal with them for the rare cases I need to use AI.
dkersten 2y ago
Agreed. Additionally, I don’t actually want to talk to my computer for most use cases. When I do, then I’ll use a dedicated service like ChatGPT, but for most other take, I really really don’t want a chat interface. I wish these companies would focus on making their core product better instead of spending resources on AI chat interfaces.
- mistrial9 2y ago
  management and investors wants AI chat; coincidentally it appeals to the lazy and less-intellectual
unsupp0rted 2y ago
I just don't want to search the web. I have questions and I want answers- searching the web is an intermediate step, not the end solution. I have Question X and the answer isn't to surface "Blog Post Y"... it's the content of Blog Post Y I need, and only the subset of the content that answers my question, perhaps synthesized with the content of 5 other blog posts, a couple scientific papers and a recent press release. We're now in this temporary zone where "just searching the web" is still the optimal way to get answers, while search engine companies are piling into other stuff. But very shortly that other stuff will become our go-to.
- vector_spaces 2y ago
  Sometimes, often, I really just want to search the web. I just want to see what's out there! I have some vague ideas that I am trying to make more coherent and give sharper edges too, and I'm exploring the space those ideas fit into to see what others have done with them. Often I don't have a specific question in mind, and trying to frame my query as a coherent question will be limiting. As another poster commented, don't take away my agency by trying to predict my intent! Better yet, don't try to force intent on me.
  - moshun 2y ago
    Arguably Google has been taking your agency away and predicting your intent for the last decade at a minimum. The only difference here seems to be that you’re noticing it.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      This is why I don't use Google since a long time ago.
- vunderba 2y ago
  You're not wrong in terms of the average user's intent (they mostly don't care about the source, they care about the content), but I see this as an ethical gray area when search engines effectively offer up all this content created by bloggers without the need of the user to visit the site itself. Phind tries to ameliorate this a bit by providing a set of links where the summarized data comes from, but most people likely won't even click on these links. It's going to be rather demotivating when your site's traffic suddenly gets cut in half.
ein0p 2y ago
A lot of the time you aren't searching for "web pages". You are searching for answers, to get to which you'd have to dig through piles of web pages for an hour. Technology already exists to give you a direct answer in 95% of the time (with references), it just results in fewer ads shown to you, so search engines aren't interested in integrating it properly.
- flemishgun 2y ago
  This you-know-better-than-me mindset is why all technology is converging to garbage. I can't speak for OP, but for me, you are half correct: I am indeed ultimately searching for answers, but I want the piles of web pages for an hour, and that is how I will find my answer. I don't like it when systems remove my agency by believing they can correctly predict my intent. (They can't.)
  - sodality2 2y ago
    But there is no agency being removed here. You are being given more options by adding a button to chat if you so desire. It’s very small and unobtrusive
    - amlib 2y ago
      Ads, sponsoring and SEO spam were also very unobtrusive for a while. A few decades passed and we have to sift trough all the garbage to find anything relevant in our searches, it's very likely that search engines will push harder and harder for these AI assistants while making finding organic content and authoritative sources even harder, resulting in it being nearly impossible to do research by yourself rather then trough an AI that has god knows what bias and perhaps subtle ad driven bias into it.
    - rchaud 2y ago
      Take a look at a Google results page from 2009 and then from 2012 onwards. "Unobtrusive" is clearly a matter of opinion.
      - 2y ago
maltalex 2y ago
> God damn it people. I just want to search the web. Who's preventing you from doing that?
yegg 2y ago
This (DuckDuckGo AI Chat) is currently separate from search results, and in any case we plan to offer settings to turn off any AI search integrations, similarly for how we do for instant answers and ads.
- Zhyl 2y ago
  I really like the way this has been added to the UI. It's off to the side so I can just use DDG as God intended if I want to, but also is distinct enough that I discovered it prior to seeing it on HN. It makes it clear this is done in a DDG private way (which is one of the things I'm wary about with ChatGPT on its own) and offers multiple models/vendors in one place. Pretty good! Thumbs up from me.
- treprinum 2y ago
  If you could stuff all webpages to a vector database and give us a nice RAG that just responds to questions about anything that could be found on Internet while generating links to the source, that would be even awesomer!
  - yegg 2y ago
    Working on that too. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40088329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40088329
- arromatic 2y ago
  Why ddg is not focusing on improving or innovating the search ? DDG dosen't even have lens/goggles yet . Can't ddg just try to innovate like marginalia/kagi/Occam.
  - ukuina 2y ago
    What is Occam search? Can't seem to find it.
kube-system 2y ago
This is an intermediary step to what will ultimately upend search: LLMs parsing web search results and giving you succinct results without you having to read them yourself. If you haven't tried Arc Search's "Browse for Me" feature, you should. It isn't perfect yet, but I think it's clear that's the direction of search in the future.
- apantel 2y ago
  The issue is LLM’s also generating the web results. Garbage in, garbage out. The real problem is maintaining the ability to find the ground of real knowledge.
  - kube-system 2y ago
    Garbage content on the web existed long before LLMs were the new hot thing on the street. There are ways to weight or even exclude results that are poor quality, and that'll still be necessary.
bastawhiz 2y ago
I'm quite a fan of how Kagi does it: they'll only give you back AI answers if you end your query with a question mark. For when I'm looking for a fact, it's very helpful and never gets in the way.

God damn it people. I just want to search the web. You aren't doing anything meaningful by giving me yet another fuzzy robot question machine. Just let me search the web. Queries in, web pages out.

doublerabbit 2y ago

That now costs $10 (Kagi) Complex AI for free, basic search for a fee!

mostlysimilar 2y ago
I'm a current Kagi subscriber and agree the search is excellent. Unfortunately Kagi is also wasting their time on AI bullshit, so I suspect it's a short-lived oasis.
- jantissler 2y ago
  I became a Kagi subscriber mostly for the "AI bullshit", especially the Summarizer.
- nikolay 2y ago
  I also didn't use Kagi AI until I found out that I get a better deal with them for the rare cases I need to use AI.

dkersten 2y ago

Agreed. Additionally, I don’t actually want to talk to my computer for most use cases. When I do, then I’ll use a dedicated service like ChatGPT, but for most other take, I really really don’t want a chat interface. I wish these companies would focus on making their core product better instead of spending resources on AI chat interfaces.

mistrial9 2y ago
management and investors wants AI chat; coincidentally it appeals to the lazy and less-intellectual

unsupp0rted 2y ago

I just don't want to search the web. I have questions and I want answers- searching the web is an intermediate step, not the end solution. I have Question X and the answer isn't to surface "Blog Post Y"... it's the content of Blog Post Y I need, and only the subset of the content that answers my question, perhaps synthesized with the content of 5 other blog posts, a couple scientific papers and a recent press release. We're now in this temporary zone where "just searching the web" is still the optimal way to get answers, while search engine companies are piling into other stuff. But very shortly that other stuff will become our go-to.

vector_spaces 2y ago
Sometimes, often, I really just want to search the web. I just want to see what's out there! I have some vague ideas that I am trying to make more coherent and give sharper edges too, and I'm exploring the space those ideas fit into to see what others have done with them. Often I don't have a specific question in mind, and trying to frame my query as a coherent question will be limiting. As another poster commented, don't take away my agency by trying to predict my intent! Better yet, don't try to force intent on me.
- moshun 2y ago
  Arguably Google has been taking your agency away and predicting your intent for the last decade at a minimum. The only difference here seems to be that you’re noticing it.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    This is why I don't use Google since a long time ago.
vunderba 2y ago
You're not wrong in terms of the average user's intent (they mostly don't care about the source, they care about the content), but I see this as an ethical gray area when search engines effectively offer up all this content created by bloggers without the need of the user to visit the site itself. Phind tries to ameliorate this a bit by providing a set of links where the summarized data comes from, but most people likely won't even click on these links. It's going to be rather demotivating when your site's traffic suddenly gets cut in half.

ein0p 2y ago

A lot of the time you aren't searching for "web pages". You are searching for answers, to get to which you'd have to dig through piles of web pages for an hour. Technology already exists to give you a direct answer in 95% of the time (with references), it just results in fewer ads shown to you, so search engines aren't interested in integrating it properly.

flemishgun 2y ago
This you-know-better-than-me mindset is why all technology is converging to garbage. I can't speak for OP, but for me, you are half correct: I am indeed ultimately searching for answers, but I want the piles of web pages for an hour, and that is how I will find my answer. I don't like it when systems remove my agency by believing they can correctly predict my intent. (They can't.)
- sodality2 2y ago
  But there is no agency being removed here. You are being given more options by adding a button to chat if you so desire. It’s very small and unobtrusive
  - amlib 2y ago
    Ads, sponsoring and SEO spam were also very unobtrusive for a while. A few decades passed and we have to sift trough all the garbage to find anything relevant in our searches, it's very likely that search engines will push harder and harder for these AI assistants while making finding organic content and authoritative sources even harder, resulting in it being nearly impossible to do research by yourself rather then trough an AI that has god knows what bias and perhaps subtle ad driven bias into it.
  - rchaud 2y ago
    Take a look at a Google results page from 2009 and then from 2012 onwards. "Unobtrusive" is clearly a matter of opinion.
    - 2y ago

maltalex 2y ago

> God damn it people. I just want to search the web. Who's preventing you from doing that?

yegg 2y ago

This (DuckDuckGo AI Chat) is currently separate from search results, and in any case we plan to offer settings to turn off any AI search integrations, similarly for how we do for instant answers and ads.

Zhyl 2y ago
I really like the way this has been added to the UI. It's off to the side so I can just use DDG as God intended if I want to, but also is distinct enough that I discovered it prior to seeing it on HN. It makes it clear this is done in a DDG private way (which is one of the things I'm wary about with ChatGPT on its own) and offers multiple models/vendors in one place. Pretty good! Thumbs up from me.
treprinum 2y ago
If you could stuff all webpages to a vector database and give us a nice RAG that just responds to questions about anything that could be found on Internet while generating links to the source, that would be even awesomer!
- yegg 2y ago
  Working on that too. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40088329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40088329
arromatic 2y ago
Why ddg is not focusing on improving or innovating the search ? DDG dosen't even have lens/goggles yet . Can't ddg just try to innovate like marginalia/kagi/Occam.
- ukuina 2y ago
  What is Occam search? Can't seem to find it.

kube-system 2y ago

This is an intermediary step to what will ultimately upend search: LLMs parsing web search results and giving you succinct results without you having to read them yourself. If you haven't tried Arc Search's "Browse for Me" feature, you should. It isn't perfect yet, but I think it's clear that's the direction of search in the future.

apantel 2y ago
The issue is LLM’s also generating the web results. Garbage in, garbage out. The real problem is maintaining the ability to find the ground of real knowledge.
- kube-system 2y ago
  Garbage content on the web existed long before LLMs were the new hot thing on the street. There are ways to weight or even exclude results that are poor quality, and that'll still be necessary.

bastawhiz 2y ago

I'm quite a fan of how Kagi does it: they'll only give you back AI answers if you end your query with a question mark. For when I'm looking for a fact, it's very helpful and never gets in the way.