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Manufacturers will do only what they're allowed to by law and even more. Expecting ethics from companies, especially (but not only) corporations, must stop. It'

by outime 3y ago

Manufacturers will do only what they're allowed to by law and even more. Expecting ethics from companies, especially (but not only) corporations, must stop. It's not going to happen, and it will only lead to further disappointment.

Loughla 3y ago
That is such a shitty take, regardless of whether it's real or not (I do agree with you). It's just infuriating that we accept that we are going to get fucked by every company that can possibly do so, in every aspect of our lives. Humans run those companies. What can we do to stop this vicious cycle, outside of guillotines?
- tudorw 3y ago
  B-Corps are a interesting line, also Co-operatives and worker owned companies, these have the freedom to align with greater goals than pure profit. https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/ https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/ and https://cafe-libertad.de https://cafe-libertad.de are examples of what can be done aside from throwing your hands in the air and walking on by.
- dopylitty 3y ago
  The point is a good one though. We can't expect companies to be ethical or moral or good in our current system because our current system values profits for shareholders/"owners" and high executive salaries above all else. That doesn't mean we need to just accept it and let them do whatever they want though. What it means is we need to change the system so that companies aren't putting profits first and instead require them to prioritize product quality, employee well being, and environmental sustainability. Profit should be a distant fourth if it's allowed at all. Frankly the idea that some amount of value is just sucked out of companies by parasites who don't contribute to the company at all is just not right.
  - Loughla 3y ago
    Yes. But what does that look like? If a company has a high quality product, treats its employees great, and is massively sustainable, but makes a product that doesn't sell, what happens? That's the problem. The current system blows, but what is the alternative?
- account42 3y ago
  Why not the guillotines?
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    I know you probably posted that as a semi-joke, but it's true that the US keeps treating terrible corporations with kid gloves. If a human does something heinous, the government and the general public want to throw the book at him, but if a corporation does something heinous, all of a sudden it's "Well, let's not be so hasty... think of the economy, and all those jobs they are providing! Maybe we should send them another letter asking them pretty please, don't do heinous things."
kangda123 3y ago
I used to think the same but I'm not convinced anymore. The issue is, it's really hard to come up with leakproof regulation. Companies have far more resources to look for loopholes than governmental agencies to design the law. An extreme example of this is the financial sector, where regulators have pretty much thrown in the towel. They just write vague law to be able to prosecute whatever after the fact. BUT if we expect companies to behave ethically and act on that, then the incentives for businesses are effectively altered, and it's much harder to find loopholes in that.
marcosdumay 3y ago
Extinguish corporations then. If they are of no use for the people, there's no reason to keep them around. (And no, I don't think you are right, so I don't think we should out-right extinguish them. But if you are right, we should.)
- woodrowbarlow 3y ago
  our world has corporations whose power and resources exceed the governments of some well-developed nations and i believe that's dangerous.
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    Well, I also don't believe that's correct. But if it is, and you have a chance of peacefully extinguishing those, you'd be a fool not to. (That said, there has been examples in history when that happened. Of course, such corporation-like structures were only terminated by war. I really don't think we are anywhere near that today.)
r00fus 3y ago
Who will oversee these corporations? The governments who they already bribe or control? Especially when it's only affecting "the other" (ie, populations in other countries).

by outime 3y ago

Loughla 3y ago

That is such a shitty take, regardless of whether it's real or not (I do agree with you). It's just infuriating that we accept that we are going to get fucked by every company that can possibly do so, in every aspect of our lives. Humans run those companies. What can we do to stop this vicious cycle, outside of guillotines?

tudorw 3y ago
B-Corps are a interesting line, also Co-operatives and worker owned companies, these have the freedom to align with greater goals than pure profit. https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/ https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/ and https://cafe-libertad.de https://cafe-libertad.de are examples of what can be done aside from throwing your hands in the air and walking on by.
dopylitty 3y ago
The point is a good one though. We can't expect companies to be ethical or moral or good in our current system because our current system values profits for shareholders/"owners" and high executive salaries above all else. That doesn't mean we need to just accept it and let them do whatever they want though. What it means is we need to change the system so that companies aren't putting profits first and instead require them to prioritize product quality, employee well being, and environmental sustainability. Profit should be a distant fourth if it's allowed at all. Frankly the idea that some amount of value is just sucked out of companies by parasites who don't contribute to the company at all is just not right.
- Loughla 3y ago
  Yes. But what does that look like? If a company has a high quality product, treats its employees great, and is massively sustainable, but makes a product that doesn't sell, what happens? That's the problem. The current system blows, but what is the alternative?
account42 3y ago
Why not the guillotines?
- ryandrake 3y ago
  I know you probably posted that as a semi-joke, but it's true that the US keeps treating terrible corporations with kid gloves. If a human does something heinous, the government and the general public want to throw the book at him, but if a corporation does something heinous, all of a sudden it's "Well, let's not be so hasty... think of the economy, and all those jobs they are providing! Maybe we should send them another letter asking them pretty please, don't do heinous things."

kangda123 3y ago

I used to think the same but I'm not convinced anymore. The issue is, it's really hard to come up with leakproof regulation. Companies have far more resources to look for loopholes than governmental agencies to design the law. An extreme example of this is the financial sector, where regulators have pretty much thrown in the towel. They just write vague law to be able to prosecute whatever after the fact. BUT if we expect companies to behave ethically and act on that, then the incentives for businesses are effectively altered, and it's much harder to find loopholes in that.

marcosdumay 3y ago

Extinguish corporations then. If they are of no use for the people, there's no reason to keep them around. (And no, I don't think you are right, so I don't think we should out-right extinguish them. But if you are right, we should.)

woodrowbarlow 3y ago
our world has corporations whose power and resources exceed the governments of some well-developed nations and i believe that's dangerous.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  Well, I also don't believe that's correct. But if it is, and you have a chance of peacefully extinguishing those, you'd be a fool not to. (That said, there has been examples in history when that happened. Of course, such corporation-like structures were only terminated by war. I really don't think we are anywhere near that today.)

r00fus 3y ago

Who will oversee these corporations? The governments who they already bribe or control? Especially when it's only affecting "the other" (ie, populations in other countries).