5 ms·

Probably the EU laws are getting too draconian. I'm starting to see it a lot.

sa-code 2y ago
EU actually has the opposite of draconian privacy laws. It's more that meta doesn't have a business model if they don't intrude on your privacy
- mrtranscendence 2y ago
  Well, exactly, and that's why IMO they'll end up pulling out the EU. There's barely any money in non-targeted ads.
  - sebastiennight 2y ago
    If by "barely any money", you mean "all the businesses in the EU will still give you all their money as long as you've got eyeballs", then yes.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Facebook has shown me ads for both dick pills and breast surgery, for hyper-local events in town in a country I don't live in, and for a lawyer who specialises in renouncing a citizenship I don't have. At this point, I think paying Facebook to advertise is a waste of money — the actual spam in my junk email folder is better targeted.
  - latexr 2y ago
    > IMO they'll end up pulling out the EU. If only we’d be so lucky. I don’t thing they will, but fingers crossed.
  - extraduder_ire 2y ago
    If it's more money than it costs to operate, I doubt it. There's plenty of businesses in the EU buying ads and page promotion still.
- zmmmmm 2y ago
  They just said laws, not privacy - the EU has introduced the "world's first comprehensive AI law". Even if it doesn't stop release of these models, it might be enough that the lawyers need extra time to review and sign off that it can be used without Meta getting one of those "7% of worldwide revenue" type fines the EU is fond of. [0] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20230601STO93804/eu-ai-act-first-regulation-on-artificial-intelligence https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20230601STO...
  - taneq 2y ago
    Am I reading that right? It sounds like they’re outlawing advertising (“Cognitive behavioural manipulation of people”), credit scores (“classifying people based on behaviour, socio-economic status or personal characteristics”) and fingerprint/facial recognition for phone unlocking etc. (“Biometric identification and categorisation of people”) Maybe they mean specific uses of these things in a centralised manner but the way it’s written makes it sound incredibly broad.
schleck8 2y ago
> the EU laws are getting too draconian You also said that when Meta delayed the Threads release by a few weeks in the EU. I recommend reading the princess on a pea fairytale since you seem to be quite sheltered, using the term draconian as liberally.
- sunaookami 2y ago
  >a few weeks July to December is not "a few weeks"
stareatgoats 2y ago
Claude has the same restriction [0], the whole of Europe (except Albania) is excluded. Somehow I don't think it is a retaliation against Europe for fining Meta and Google. I could be wrong, but a business decision seems more likely, like keeping usage down to a manageable level in an initial phase. Still, curious to understand why, should anyone here know more. [0] https://www.anthropic.com/claude-ai-locations https://www.anthropic.com/claude-ai-locations
- hanspeter 2y ago
  It's because of regulations! The same reason that Threads was launched with a delay in EU. It simply takes a lot of work to comply with EU regulations, and by no surprise will we see these launches happen outside of EU first.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    It's trivial to comply with EU privacy regulation if you're not depending on selling customer data. But if you say "It's because of regulations!" I hope you have a source to back that up.
    - mvkel 2y ago
      That won't be true for much longer. The AI Act will significantly nerf the capabilities you will be allowed to benefit from in the eu.
    - jokethrowaway 2y ago
      It is because of regulations. Nothing is trivial and anything has a cost. Not only it impacts existing businesses, it also make it harder for a struggling new business to compete with the current leaders. Regulations in the name of the users are actually just made to solidify the top lobbyists in their positions. The reasons I hate regulations is not because billionaires have to spend an extra week on some employee's salary, but because it makes it impossible for me tiny business to enter a new business due to the sheer complexity of it (or force me to pay more for someone else to handle it, think Paddle vs Stripe thanks to EU VATMOSS) I'm completely fine with giving away some usage data to get a free product, it's not like everyone is against it. I'd also prefer to be tracked without having to close 800 pop-ups a day. Draconian regulations like the EU ones destroy entire markets and force us to a single business model where we all need to pay with hard cash.
Draiken 2y ago
Meta (and other privacy exploiting companies) have to actually... care? Even if it's just a bit more. Nothing draconian about it.

EU actually has the opposite of draconian privacy laws. It's more that meta doesn't have a business model if they don't intrude on your privacy

mrtranscendence 2y ago
Well, exactly, and that's why IMO they'll end up pulling out the EU. There's barely any money in non-targeted ads.
- sebastiennight 2y ago
  If by "barely any money", you mean "all the businesses in the EU will still give you all their money as long as you've got eyeballs", then yes.
- ben_w 2y ago
  Facebook has shown me ads for both dick pills and breast surgery, for hyper-local events in town in a country I don't live in, and for a lawyer who specialises in renouncing a citizenship I don't have. At this point, I think paying Facebook to advertise is a waste of money — the actual spam in my junk email folder is better targeted.
- latexr 2y ago
  > IMO they'll end up pulling out the EU. If only we’d be so lucky. I don’t thing they will, but fingers crossed.
- extraduder_ire 2y ago
  If it's more money than it costs to operate, I doubt it. There's plenty of businesses in the EU buying ads and page promotion still.
zmmmmm 2y ago
They just said laws, not privacy - the EU has introduced the "world's first comprehensive AI law". Even if it doesn't stop release of these models, it might be enough that the lawyers need extra time to review and sign off that it can be used without Meta getting one of those "7% of worldwide revenue" type fines the EU is fond of. [0] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20230601STO93804/eu-ai-act-first-regulation-on-artificial-intelligence https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20230601STO...
- taneq 2y ago
  Am I reading that right? It sounds like they’re outlawing advertising (“Cognitive behavioural manipulation of people”), credit scores (“classifying people based on behaviour, socio-economic status or personal characteristics”) and fingerprint/facial recognition for phone unlocking etc. (“Biometric identification and categorisation of people”) Maybe they mean specific uses of these things in a centralised manner but the way it’s written makes it sound incredibly broad.

schleck8 2y ago

> the EU laws are getting too draconian You also said that when Meta delayed the Threads release by a few weeks in the EU. I recommend reading the princess on a pea fairytale since you seem to be quite sheltered, using the term draconian as liberally.

sunaookami 2y ago
>a few weeks July to December is not "a few weeks"

stareatgoats 2y ago

Claude has the same restriction [0], the whole of Europe (except Albania) is excluded. Somehow I don't think it is a retaliation against Europe for fining Meta and Google. I could be wrong, but a business decision seems more likely, like keeping usage down to a manageable level in an initial phase. Still, curious to understand why, should anyone here know more. [0] https://www.anthropic.com/claude-ai-locations https://www.anthropic.com/claude-ai-locations

hanspeter 2y ago
It's because of regulations! The same reason that Threads was launched with a delay in EU. It simply takes a lot of work to comply with EU regulations, and by no surprise will we see these launches happen outside of EU first.
- viraptor 2y ago
  It's trivial to comply with EU privacy regulation if you're not depending on selling customer data. But if you say "It's because of regulations!" I hope you have a source to back that up.
  - mvkel 2y ago
    That won't be true for much longer. The AI Act will significantly nerf the capabilities you will be allowed to benefit from in the eu.
  - jokethrowaway 2y ago
    It is because of regulations. Nothing is trivial and anything has a cost. Not only it impacts existing businesses, it also make it harder for a struggling new business to compete with the current leaders. Regulations in the name of the users are actually just made to solidify the top lobbyists in their positions. The reasons I hate regulations is not because billionaires have to spend an extra week on some employee's salary, but because it makes it impossible for me tiny business to enter a new business due to the sheer complexity of it (or force me to pay more for someone else to handle it, think Paddle vs Stripe thanks to EU VATMOSS) I'm completely fine with giving away some usage data to get a free product, it's not like everyone is against it. I'd also prefer to be tracked without having to close 800 pop-ups a day. Draconian regulations like the EU ones destroy entire markets and force us to a single business model where we all need to pay with hard cash.

Draiken 2y ago

Meta (and other privacy exploiting companies) have to actually... care? Even if it's just a bit more. Nothing draconian about it.