3 ms·

Boston Dynamics' new electric Atlas robot is swiveling nightmare fuel

31 points by isaacfrond 3y ago

irrational 3y ago
Yeah, the getting up routine was terrifying. Like something out of a horror movie mixed with the Terminator.
- ImHereToVote 3y ago
  I believe the technical term is 'foreshadowing'.
  - futureshock 3y ago
    I commented to my partner that it feels like these things will be hunting us down soon. He commented that drones are already hunting people down on the battlefield today. Touché.
- consumer451 3y ago
  I think it would do us some good to worry as much about the workforce implications of these tools at least as much as we worry about things like AGI/Skynet. Four years ago UBI was being widely discussed. Now as we get closer to needing it, discussion has all but disappeared. IMO, the biggest challenge going forward is not technological, but instead it's convincing powerful, very dogmatic individuals, that what is essentially redistribution of wealth is a necessary thing.
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    I wonder if, instead of UBI, it would make more sense to give everyone a small set of robot servants. Say, 6 per person.
    - consumer451 3y ago
      That's interesting, but might lead to even more population decline in the long term. But, that might not be that bad actually. I mean 1B on earth in 200 years might be perfectly fine. Along similar lines, I wondered about generative AI and how legally, it's not able to create copyrightable work. I really like that, it makes humans necessary for the creation intellectual property. Maybe in the future, each child born gets some allocation of AI agents when they turn 18, and the fruits of the labor of those agents would be assigned to that adult?
      - inglor_cz 3y ago
        The robot set could help people in some practical aspects that money can solve too, but in a more complicated way. If you suffer from arthritis and need something from the topmost shelf, you can theoretically find paid help, but it takes some time to arrange and wait for, and most people respond by coping somehow (e.g. limiting their use of furniture to the subset easily reached). A robot could do it for you on demand. That said, maybe people would stop walking altogether, and simply let themselves being carried around their own house by robots. All such conveniences can turn to evil.
  - realce 3y ago
    > IMO, the biggest challenge going forward is not technological, but instead it's convincing powerful, very dogmatic individuals, that what is essentially redistribution of wealth is a necessary thing. Funny, I was going to reply about UBI being implemented with something like CBDC, that could be controlled by it's issuer and how it would be less equitable than obtaining money from labor. I was a die-hard Yang2020 person, so I'm very much in favor of UBI, but the implementation is extremely perilous because human evil exists. Maybe we should just make Robot Unions.
    - consumer451 3y ago
      It truly blew my mind that UBI took off like it did back then. It's literal socialism with a different name. The whole thing is going to be a lot to wrap our collective heads around. It will not be an easy path. I mean, my family escaped communism. I felt dirty as heck writing "redistribution of wealth" in my previous comment. The funny thing here is that we are at a period in the history of capitalism where it has succeeded so wildly, that it's about to make it's core societal tenants obsolete.
bouvin 3y ago
I quite like it. There was going to be an uncanny valley regardless, and BD clearly decided to lean into it.
- consumer451 3y ago
  They are just showing off the new articulation capabilities.
- pdpi 3y ago
  I commented to this effect on a previous post: I find that the old Atlas leaned much more into the uncanny valley because it was sort of human-like in its movement. This one has some horror movie robot vibes going, but not the uncanny valley effect (not for me anyway).
  - ChicagoBoy11 3y ago
    I wonder if it has to do with the fact that they so front-and-center showcased the very un-human-like capabilities, whereas the other one almost seemed to try to just be an exceptionally athletic human.
- HarHarVeryFunny 3y ago
  There's a practical aspect to it, which I assume was intentional given the engineering challenge of being able to fully rotate torso like that, etc. Most of these humanoid robots (e.g. TeslaBot in it's current state) walk slowly, which limits productivity. It wouldn't matter if the job was standing at an assembly station, but anything with legs is obviously targetting more general use cases such as "gofer" - fetching parts from bins, etc. The benefit of electro-Atlas (they should have a naming competition!) is that it can essentially move or look in any direction, which means it has to walk/turn much less to get into a preferred orientation or move to a target location. It's a bit like the early "micromouse" competition entrants where they went from the initial car-like designs to omnidirectional ones (using omnidirectional wheels) so that they could change direction without needing to turn - just scoot off at 90 degrees to previous direction.
ravenstine 3y ago
> The design itself is also a little more humanoid. Similar to bipedal robots like Tesla’s Optimus, the new Atlas now has longer limbs, a straighter back, and a distinct “head” that can swivel around as needed. Must suck to always have your cutting edge tech compared with one of Elon's toys.
consumer451 3y ago
Main discussion is here: "An electric new era for Atlas" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40064105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40064105 402 points | 397 comments
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
eig 3y ago
Recovering from supine position is a known tough problem in bipedal robots. It makes sense that they would want to show off this capability.
HarHarVeryFunny 3y ago
It's interesting that a lot of people, including here on HN, find this new Atlas (does he/it have a name?) a bit unnerving or creepy. Historically what people have found creepy about robots is when they become too human-like, especially facially - the "uncanny valley" where the face is so close to human that the slight differences give the feeling that something is wrong - like a dead body brought to life, perhaps. What's unexpected about people feeling creeped out by this new son-of-Atlas is that it seems to be because of how un-human it is (opposite of uncanny valley!) in it's ability to rotate its head and torso and perform these double-jointed types of maneuver. Maybe in a factory setting this doesn't matter, but it's relevant in terms of robots used in other settings like hospitals. Japan seem to have the right idea in terms of making robots slightly smaller than humans and with friendly faces so that they seem non-intimidating.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  The faceless head is somewhat monstrous as well. I can almost see the ring going red just before the thing decides to slaughter the entire room.
  - RGamma 3y ago
    Don't worry, you'll barely see the actual slaughterbots coming: https://youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU&pp=ygUNc2xhdWdodGVyYm90cw%3D%3D https://youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU&pp=ygUNc2xhdWdodGVyY...
- SuchAnonMuchWow 3y ago
  I think it's still the same "uncanny valley" phenomenon: because the body looks more like a human, we are more creeped when we discover how it moves its joints because we were expecting something more human. We wouldn't be creeped by a car/robot moving its wheels in weird directions, but we are with a humanoid robot moving its legs that way.
  - me_me_me 3y ago
    It looks like its possessed. Something straight out of Exorcist.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
Company secrets, I suppose, but I wish there was more info on the engineering of it. Custom motors? What do they look like? (I see a lot of ventilation suggesting heat.) Are there anything like tendons (springs I suppose) so that the motors are being assisted to a degree in lifting the mass of itself? Love to see a dissection so to speak.
- generuso 3y ago
  Boston Dynamics is notoriously secretive. But unlike with hydraulics, where Boston Dynamics have developed their own valves and pumps and organically shaped 3D printed in titanium manifolds, there is only so much that one can do differently from others with the electro-mechanical actuators and motor controllers. Everybody is using the same brushless motors with one of a few known types of gearboxes.These technologies are so well developed that one usually has no choice but to source the components from the experts in their respective domains. For now, the closest one can do to looking inside of the new Atlas, is to look at other modern robots. For example, here is what is inside of the Agility Robotics' bipedal robot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzIX2KGqpzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzIX2KGqpzI And here is a teardown of a joint from a very popular Universal Robots' arm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oje2ucwe3vI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oje2ucwe3vI Other than that, one can read Boston Dynamics' patents covering some of the design choices for their older robots, including for the electric quadrupeds: https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Boston+Dynamics https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Boston+Dynamics
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40064105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40064105
bikingbismuth 3y ago
This is giving me major Geth from Mass Effect vibes. Given the massive impact that AI has had on the cultural conversation, I wonder how far away we are from a similar conversation about robots.

31 points by isaacfrond 3y ago

irrational 3y ago

Yeah, the getting up routine was terrifying. Like something out of a horror movie mixed with the Terminator.

ImHereToVote 3y ago
I believe the technical term is 'foreshadowing'.
- futureshock 3y ago
  I commented to my partner that it feels like these things will be hunting us down soon. He commented that drones are already hunting people down on the battlefield today. Touché.
consumer451 3y ago
I think it would do us some good to worry as much about the workforce implications of these tools at least as much as we worry about things like AGI/Skynet. Four years ago UBI was being widely discussed. Now as we get closer to needing it, discussion has all but disappeared. IMO, the biggest challenge going forward is not technological, but instead it's convincing powerful, very dogmatic individuals, that what is essentially redistribution of wealth is a necessary thing.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  I wonder if, instead of UBI, it would make more sense to give everyone a small set of robot servants. Say, 6 per person.
  - consumer451 3y ago
    That's interesting, but might lead to even more population decline in the long term. But, that might not be that bad actually. I mean 1B on earth in 200 years might be perfectly fine. Along similar lines, I wondered about generative AI and how legally, it's not able to create copyrightable work. I really like that, it makes humans necessary for the creation intellectual property. Maybe in the future, each child born gets some allocation of AI agents when they turn 18, and the fruits of the labor of those agents would be assigned to that adult?
    - inglor_cz 3y ago
      The robot set could help people in some practical aspects that money can solve too, but in a more complicated way. If you suffer from arthritis and need something from the topmost shelf, you can theoretically find paid help, but it takes some time to arrange and wait for, and most people respond by coping somehow (e.g. limiting their use of furniture to the subset easily reached). A robot could do it for you on demand. That said, maybe people would stop walking altogether, and simply let themselves being carried around their own house by robots. All such conveniences can turn to evil.
- realce 3y ago
  > IMO, the biggest challenge going forward is not technological, but instead it's convincing powerful, very dogmatic individuals, that what is essentially redistribution of wealth is a necessary thing. Funny, I was going to reply about UBI being implemented with something like CBDC, that could be controlled by it's issuer and how it would be less equitable than obtaining money from labor. I was a die-hard Yang2020 person, so I'm very much in favor of UBI, but the implementation is extremely perilous because human evil exists. Maybe we should just make Robot Unions.
  - consumer451 3y ago
    It truly blew my mind that UBI took off like it did back then. It's literal socialism with a different name. The whole thing is going to be a lot to wrap our collective heads around. It will not be an easy path. I mean, my family escaped communism. I felt dirty as heck writing "redistribution of wealth" in my previous comment. The funny thing here is that we are at a period in the history of capitalism where it has succeeded so wildly, that it's about to make it's core societal tenants obsolete.

bouvin 3y ago

I quite like it. There was going to be an uncanny valley regardless, and BD clearly decided to lean into it.

consumer451 3y ago
They are just showing off the new articulation capabilities.
pdpi 3y ago
I commented to this effect on a previous post: I find that the old Atlas leaned much more into the uncanny valley because it was sort of human-like in its movement. This one has some horror movie robot vibes going, but not the uncanny valley effect (not for me anyway).
- ChicagoBoy11 3y ago
  I wonder if it has to do with the fact that they so front-and-center showcased the very un-human-like capabilities, whereas the other one almost seemed to try to just be an exceptionally athletic human.
HarHarVeryFunny 3y ago
There's a practical aspect to it, which I assume was intentional given the engineering challenge of being able to fully rotate torso like that, etc. Most of these humanoid robots (e.g. TeslaBot in it's current state) walk slowly, which limits productivity. It wouldn't matter if the job was standing at an assembly station, but anything with legs is obviously targetting more general use cases such as "gofer" - fetching parts from bins, etc. The benefit of electro-Atlas (they should have a naming competition!) is that it can essentially move or look in any direction, which means it has to walk/turn much less to get into a preferred orientation or move to a target location. It's a bit like the early "micromouse" competition entrants where they went from the initial car-like designs to omnidirectional ones (using omnidirectional wheels) so that they could change direction without needing to turn - just scoot off at 90 degrees to previous direction.

ravenstine 3y ago

> The design itself is also a little more humanoid. Similar to bipedal robots like Tesla’s Optimus, the new Atlas now has longer limbs, a straighter back, and a distinct “head” that can swivel around as needed. Must suck to always have your cutting edge tech compared with one of Elon's toys.

consumer451 3y ago

Main discussion is here: "An electric new era for Atlas" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40064105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40064105 402 points | 397 comments

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

eig 3y ago

Recovering from supine position is a known tough problem in bipedal robots. It makes sense that they would want to show off this capability.

HarHarVeryFunny 3y ago

It's interesting that a lot of people, including here on HN, find this new Atlas (does he/it have a name?) a bit unnerving or creepy. Historically what people have found creepy about robots is when they become too human-like, especially facially - the "uncanny valley" where the face is so close to human that the slight differences give the feeling that something is wrong - like a dead body brought to life, perhaps. What's unexpected about people feeling creeped out by this new son-of-Atlas is that it seems to be because of how un-human it is (opposite of uncanny valley!) in it's ability to rotate its head and torso and perform these double-jointed types of maneuver. Maybe in a factory setting this doesn't matter, but it's relevant in terms of robots used in other settings like hospitals. Japan seem to have the right idea in terms of making robots slightly smaller than humans and with friendly faces so that they seem non-intimidating.

inglor_cz 3y ago
The faceless head is somewhat monstrous as well. I can almost see the ring going red just before the thing decides to slaughter the entire room.
- RGamma 3y ago
  Don't worry, you'll barely see the actual slaughterbots coming: https://youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU&pp=ygUNc2xhdWdodGVyYm90cw%3D%3D https://youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU&pp=ygUNc2xhdWdodGVyY...
SuchAnonMuchWow 3y ago
I think it's still the same "uncanny valley" phenomenon: because the body looks more like a human, we are more creeped when we discover how it moves its joints because we were expecting something more human. We wouldn't be creeped by a car/robot moving its wheels in weird directions, but we are with a humanoid robot moving its legs that way.
- me_me_me 3y ago
  It looks like its possessed. Something straight out of Exorcist.

JKCalhoun 3y ago

Company secrets, I suppose, but I wish there was more info on the engineering of it. Custom motors? What do they look like? (I see a lot of ventilation suggesting heat.) Are there anything like tendons (springs I suppose) so that the motors are being assisted to a degree in lifting the mass of itself? Love to see a dissection so to speak.

generuso 3y ago
Boston Dynamics is notoriously secretive. But unlike with hydraulics, where Boston Dynamics have developed their own valves and pumps and organically shaped 3D printed in titanium manifolds, there is only so much that one can do differently from others with the electro-mechanical actuators and motor controllers. Everybody is using the same brushless motors with one of a few known types of gearboxes.These technologies are so well developed that one usually has no choice but to source the components from the experts in their respective domains. For now, the closest one can do to looking inside of the new Atlas, is to look at other modern robots. For example, here is what is inside of the Agility Robotics' bipedal robot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzIX2KGqpzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzIX2KGqpzI And here is a teardown of a joint from a very popular Universal Robots' arm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oje2ucwe3vI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oje2ucwe3vI Other than that, one can read Boston Dynamics' patents covering some of the design choices for their older robots, including for the electric quadrupeds: https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Boston+Dynamics https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Boston+Dynamics

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40064105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40064105

bikingbismuth 3y ago

This is giving me major Geth from Mass Effect vibes. Given the massive impact that AI has had on the cultural conversation, I wonder how far away we are from a similar conversation about robots.