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What a soulless perspective. Most people are not fully free to quit, having rent to pay, a work visa to maintain, or other circumstances. Most software jobs a

What a soulless perspective. Most people are not fully free to quit, having rent to pay, a work visa to maintain, or other circumstances. Most software jobs are not paying their workers a salary for them to become soulless robots. They are paying you to produce code, and to have expertise on the matters at hand. In a sense, you're getting paid so that you can tell your employer "No, this feature isn't quite right, it's easier to code this way". This black-and-white "if you accept a salary to code, you also must turn off your brain and become a mindless automaton for your owners, or else quit" is ridiculous, and reality will always have more complexity. You're of course welcome to willingly turn yourself into a robot slave in exchange for money, but I will remain a free opinionated human, regardless of whether I am taking a paycheck or not, and if the company does not want a human, they can fire me and try to replace me with someone like you, or with an AI.

cianuro_ 3y ago
Keeping activism at the gate is not turning yourself into a robot, unless activism constitutes your whole personality.
jimbokun 3y ago
Your coworkers are not obligated to comply with your political beliefs.
- Ahmd72 3y ago
  When did asking for justice become a political belief?
  - jdminhbg 3y ago
    What constitutes "justice" is a political question. You can try to redefine politics out of it, but nobody is buying it.
  - geodel 3y ago
    Oh it happens all the time when definition of justice depends on weather of the day.
    - Ahmd72 3y ago
      Yeah I get that, but just plain old belief of right and wrong regardless of your feelings or political opinions, that's what justice stands for, not the murky thing we have made it now to serve the elites
      - weatherlite 3y ago
        Hamas is wrong, that's my idea of justice. I suppose your idea is the opposite, how do you think this should be settled in a workplace? Maybe it shouldn't be settled in the workplace.
        Ahmd72 3y ago
        My idea isn't even remotely related to right or wrong about Hamas or the other party, you need to break it down to the root problem as to why does an organization like Hamas exist? When you get to that point you have your answer and you can get to justice from there.
        weatherlite 3y ago
        Your idea of why Hamas exists in the first place, or rather what Hamas really wants to achieve will be different than mine, so we will reach different conclusions.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    literally always. How could this possibly not be a political belief?
fred_is_fred 3y ago
If you have rent to pay or a visa then the reality of the world is that you should think twice before you cause a disruption and deface the property of your own employer. This does not make you a robot, but rather a pragmatic person. We have freedom of speech here but it does not mean free from consequences - something the right has been struggling with as of late and it seems now the left also.
- DarkByte8 3y ago
  If freedom of speech is not free from consequences then what is freedom of speech?
  - fred_is_fred 3y ago
    It's fairly easy to google. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
    - DarkByte8 3y ago
      So is free from government consequences not people that can form a mob, not other entity that has power over an individual. To me it just sounds like you privatize social credit score from authoritarian government. "You are free to speak and the government can't knock on your door but by god the rest of the people will dox you and make sure that you can't find a job ever and be a homeless for the rest of your life(short one I hope).". There is no freedom of speech in america or any were. Freedom of speech is dead.
      - fred_is_fred 3y ago
        Are you that daft that you truly believe you can say anything you want with no social or other consequences? You can't walk down the street insulting people and not expect society to disapprove of that - and the consequences that come with it. Being ostracized, losing your job, etc.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
1024core 3y ago
[flagged]
- lamontcg 3y ago
  [flagged]
geodel 3y ago
> Most people are not fully free to quit, having rent to pay, a work visa to maintain, or other circumstances. So people who are not willing to make sacrifice for a cause are asking others to make one. How principled!
fargle 3y ago
> What a soulless perspective. disagree, strongly. you present a false dichotomy. you can be a human with a soul and disagree (strongly) with your employer and still take their salary to do your job. it's not your job to decide how the software you build is used - there's several democratic governments, shareholders, company officers, etc. that get to decide that. when you are an employee that is the deal you made when you decided to work for them. > Most software jobs are not paying their workers a salary for them to become soulless robots. They are paying you to produce code, and to have expertise on the matters at hand. agree. totally true. notice how they are specifically not paying you to protest global political issues in their executive offices. > I will remain a free opinionated human, regardless of whether I am taking a paycheck or not, and if the company does not want a human, they can fire me and try to replace me with someone like you, or with an AI. again, totally understandable and fine. however, these people are not just "opinionated". they decided to stage a "protest". that is NOT what they were being paid to do. and they decided to protest their own employer. on that employer's property. you are free to have your own opinion about your employer, his politics, his customers, etc. you are not free to stage a takeover and make a public protest about it on his property. you are not free to disagree publicly and embarrass or harass him and then expect he will not hire someone else next week instead of you. if you don't like it: buy a majority position or run for office. if you really can't stomach it, then the only ethical thing to do is quit - you can demonstrate your conviction by sacrificing yourself. but you have no right to injure/annoy/bother anyone else about your political ideas at work. from a pragmatic standpoint, that was stupid. from a practical standpoint, it will do nothing to help their cause, quite likely damage it instead. it doesn't demonstrate good ethics, "having a soul" or anything like that. it demonstrates incredible immaturity, entitlement, and naivete.
- calf 3y ago
  Why is any of this true? All you're doing is setting the meta-rules, but who gave you this special freedom to define the rules for others? I mean, that's the conceit of your argument. It's the rhetoric of political belief which is why "check your beliefs at the door" is a completely disingenous argument. The very argument you and others offer is foundationally a political belief - a belief about what are freedoms - masquerading as something everyone should uncritically accept as given. That's the lie that you are telling to yourself and others.

cianuro_ 3y ago

Keeping activism at the gate is not turning yourself into a robot, unless activism constitutes your whole personality.

jimbokun 3y ago

Your coworkers are not obligated to comply with your political beliefs.

Ahmd72 3y ago
When did asking for justice become a political belief?
- jdminhbg 3y ago
  What constitutes "justice" is a political question. You can try to redefine politics out of it, but nobody is buying it.
- geodel 3y ago
  Oh it happens all the time when definition of justice depends on weather of the day.
  - Ahmd72 3y ago
    Yeah I get that, but just plain old belief of right and wrong regardless of your feelings or political opinions, that's what justice stands for, not the murky thing we have made it now to serve the elites
    - weatherlite 3y ago
      Hamas is wrong, that's my idea of justice. I suppose your idea is the opposite, how do you think this should be settled in a workplace? Maybe it shouldn't be settled in the workplace.
      - Ahmd72 3y ago
        My idea isn't even remotely related to right or wrong about Hamas or the other party, you need to break it down to the root problem as to why does an organization like Hamas exist? When you get to that point you have your answer and you can get to justice from there.
        weatherlite 3y ago
        Your idea of why Hamas exists in the first place, or rather what Hamas really wants to achieve will be different than mine, so we will reach different conclusions.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  literally always. How could this possibly not be a political belief?

fred_is_fred 3y ago

If you have rent to pay or a visa then the reality of the world is that you should think twice before you cause a disruption and deface the property of your own employer. This does not make you a robot, but rather a pragmatic person. We have freedom of speech here but it does not mean free from consequences - something the right has been struggling with as of late and it seems now the left also.

DarkByte8 3y ago
If freedom of speech is not free from consequences then what is freedom of speech?
- fred_is_fred 3y ago
  It's fairly easy to google. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
  - DarkByte8 3y ago
    So is free from government consequences not people that can form a mob, not other entity that has power over an individual. To me it just sounds like you privatize social credit score from authoritarian government. "You are free to speak and the government can't knock on your door but by god the rest of the people will dox you and make sure that you can't find a job ever and be a homeless for the rest of your life(short one I hope).". There is no freedom of speech in america or any were. Freedom of speech is dead.
    - fred_is_fred 3y ago
      Are you that daft that you truly believe you can say anything you want with no social or other consequences? You can't walk down the street insulting people and not expect society to disapprove of that - and the consequences that come with it. Being ostracized, losing your job, etc.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

1024core 3y ago

[flagged]

lamontcg 3y ago
[flagged]

geodel 3y ago

> Most people are not fully free to quit, having rent to pay, a work visa to maintain, or other circumstances. So people who are not willing to make sacrifice for a cause are asking others to make one. How principled!

fargle 3y ago

> What a soulless perspective. disagree, strongly. you present a false dichotomy. you can be a human with a soul and disagree (strongly) with your employer and still take their salary to do your job. it's not your job to decide how the software you build is used - there's several democratic governments, shareholders, company officers, etc. that get to decide that. when you are an employee that is the deal you made when you decided to work for them. > Most software jobs are not paying their workers a salary for them to become soulless robots. They are paying you to produce code, and to have expertise on the matters at hand. agree. totally true. notice how they are specifically not paying you to protest global political issues in their executive offices. > I will remain a free opinionated human, regardless of whether I am taking a paycheck or not, and if the company does not want a human, they can fire me and try to replace me with someone like you, or with an AI. again, totally understandable and fine. however, these people are not just "opinionated". they decided to stage a "protest". that is NOT what they were being paid to do. and they decided to protest their own employer. on that employer's property. you are free to have your own opinion about your employer, his politics, his customers, etc. you are not free to stage a takeover and make a public protest about it on his property. you are not free to disagree publicly and embarrass or harass him and then expect he will not hire someone else next week instead of you. if you don't like it: buy a majority position or run for office. if you really can't stomach it, then the only ethical thing to do is quit - you can demonstrate your conviction by sacrificing yourself. but you have no right to injure/annoy/bother anyone else about your political ideas at work. from a pragmatic standpoint, that was stupid. from a practical standpoint, it will do nothing to help their cause, quite likely damage it instead. it doesn't demonstrate good ethics, "having a soul" or anything like that. it demonstrates incredible immaturity, entitlement, and naivete.

calf 3y ago
Why is any of this true? All you're doing is setting the meta-rules, but who gave you this special freedom to define the rules for others? I mean, that's the conceit of your argument. It's the rhetoric of political belief which is why "check your beliefs at the door" is a completely disingenous argument. The very argument you and others offer is foundationally a political belief - a belief about what are freedoms - masquerading as something everyone should uncritically accept as given. That's the lie that you are telling to yourself and others.