11 ms·

I really don’t understand this idea that Israel should just take any attacks coming their way.

petee 3y ago
How does starving children solve anything? Israel had a lot of support until they decided to rampage a civilian population. What they are doing now is neither defensive nor effective.
- nolongerthere 3y ago
  [flagged]
- TiredOfLife 3y ago
  >How does starving children solve anything? Ask HAMAS, they are the ones hijacking the aid trucks at gunpoint.
  - lma21 3y ago
    that's not what the cameras or journalists are showing. Was it also them who shot the World Central Kitchen aid workers?
    - me_me_me 3y ago
      > cameras or journalists are showing And who controls them in gaza? BBC?
      - lma21 3y ago
        lol and nothing to say about the WCK?
- snird 3y ago
  That's a lie. Israel always allowed as much aid as needed. Hamas kept stealing it to create the crisis and have useful idiots say it's genocide.
  - NewLogic 3y ago
    Except for when they are bombing the shit out of the aid workers. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-04/gaza-aid-convoy-air-strike-visual-analysis-photos-israel/103662942 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-04/gaza-aid-convoy-air-s...
  - runarberg 3y ago
    That is simply not true. There is no evidence of Hamas systematically stealing aid from the rest of the population. On the contrary there is plenty of evidence showing Israeli citizens preventing aid from entering Gaza and the Israeli military doing nothing about it. We have evidence of aid reaching Gaza being distributed orderly by the Gaza police (a Hamas organization) and then the police officers orchestrating the distribution being targeted and killed by an Israeli missile. The optics here is that Israel is trying to prevent aid from reaching Gaza, and what little aid gets in, they try to create chaos such that this aid is not distributed to those in need.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Demonstrably false
slily 3y ago
The idea is to stand up for the weaker party and that's it. It doesn't matter that Palestine is led by a terrorist group with a genocidal agenda with overwhelming popular support. They are weaker and therefore they can't be wrong, by virtue of being weaker they are automatically classified as oppressed and deserving of pity, whilst Israel being the stronger party makes it automatically the bad oppressive party in cartoon style. See also how no one doubts the obviously cooked numbers on Palestinian deaths. You can see this rationale mirrored exactly in the disproportionate criticism of Western states and specifically white settlers.
- petee 3y ago
  Many could say the same of Israel. But don't conflate protests against Israel as being in support of Hamas. Many people support neither, but are horrified how kids are bearing the brunt. Hamas commited attrocities, so has Israel; all lose in war.
  - slily 3y ago
    I agree in principle, but I don't see many protesters demonstrate that nuance.
    - petee 3y ago
      Personally I've never seen a "pro-Hamas" sign, I have no doubt someone somewhere has one. Ive seen plenty of "Free Palastine" signs be called anti-semitic though, despite showing support for the people versus a government.
      - pyeri 3y ago
        That "River to Sea" phrase has a very sinister and evil meaning when you look up the original Arabic. Translations are always polished for mass appeal!
      - slily 3y ago
        I see Jews being harassed, synagogues vandalized, 4chan-tier anti-semitic conspiracy theories going around leftist circles, and more broadly I see social media armchair activists who may or may not be relevant but do affect public opinion parroting Hamas propaganda wholesale, and the protesters featured in this post's article exemplify exactly that mentality which is what I was initially describing. Most people are reasonable, but I'm not concerned with people who know the difference between a hot war and a genocide.
exabrial 3y ago
I’d venture a guess: Russian and Iranian propaganda. Why do you think Boeing is also conveniently all over the news right when war breaks out?
- ein0p 3y ago
  Because doors fall out of its planes mid-flight and wheels fall off during takeoff?
  - exabrial 3y ago
    Have you done independent research to confirm that Boeing is an anomaly before developing that opinion, or was that opinion handed to you?
    - ein0p 3y ago
      Is Putin in the room with us right now?
ispalewhoc 3y ago
[flagged]
TheFreim 3y ago
You don't understand it because most, if not all, aren't arguing that Israel should "just take any attacks coming their way." A response needs to be proportionate, and also one needs to account for the causes of the attack in the first place. People will point to things like Israeli expansion, mass surveillance, and other issues relating to Gaza as factors which need to be considered when discerning what is an appropriate response. Now, what I just said is a very simplistic and slanted presentation, but it should suffice in demonstrating that it's not as simple as one side (the "good guys") who thinks Israel should defend itself and the other side (the "bad guys") who think Israel should allow itself to be wiped off the map by terrorists.
- ergocoder 3y ago
  It is proportionate, IMO. Palestine fired thousands of missiles at Israel after the Oct 7. Just because Israel is able to block most of them doesn't make it okay. Those missiles still count. At worst, this is debatable but the protesters at google think that they are absolutely correct with no debate needed. I think they all should be fired, and their names should definitely be disclosed.
  - yterdy 3y ago
    Your opinion is incorrect and concerning in its confidence. Oct. 7th has been characterized as Israel's 9/11 (with, frankly, fewer deaths). Meanwhile, Israel has perpetrated a 9/11 roughly every 2.5 weeks for the past 6 months in Gaza. The difference in Hamas versus the IDF's allowance of accessibility to basic needs is also stark. In essence, a terrorist attack is not proportional to a siege.
    - me_me_me 3y ago
      only if hamas had access to billions of dollars to develop infrastructure and build up emergency shelters...
      - lodrion 3y ago
megous 3y ago
Eh, why should Palestinians though? There are many that are being attacked daily by Israel. Should they just take it? Also you're kinda assuming this contract is about defense, or that the defense is just. No idea why anyone should just take that assumption as granted.
mirzap 3y ago
Israel is an apartheid state. And this comes from prominent Israeli human rights organizations (https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid), journalists (i.e., listen to what Gideon Levy says about Israeli society), and ex-soldiers (google "breaking the silence). It's occupier. It is recognized by the international community as an occupying power. There are decades and decades of documented violence against Palestinians. And we will see in the future trials upon trials for current Genocide.
password54321 3y ago
You mean you don't understand your own straw man?

How does starving children solve anything? Israel had a lot of support until they decided to rampage a civilian population. What they are doing now is neither defensive nor effective.

nolongerthere 3y ago
[flagged]
TiredOfLife 3y ago
>How does starving children solve anything? Ask HAMAS, they are the ones hijacking the aid trucks at gunpoint.
- lma21 3y ago
  that's not what the cameras or journalists are showing. Was it also them who shot the World Central Kitchen aid workers?
  - me_me_me 3y ago
    > cameras or journalists are showing And who controls them in gaza? BBC?
    - lma21 3y ago
      lol and nothing to say about the WCK?
snird 3y ago
That's a lie. Israel always allowed as much aid as needed. Hamas kept stealing it to create the crisis and have useful idiots say it's genocide.
- NewLogic 3y ago
  Except for when they are bombing the shit out of the aid workers. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-04/gaza-aid-convoy-air-strike-visual-analysis-photos-israel/103662942 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-04/gaza-aid-convoy-air-s...
- runarberg 3y ago
  That is simply not true. There is no evidence of Hamas systematically stealing aid from the rest of the population. On the contrary there is plenty of evidence showing Israeli citizens preventing aid from entering Gaza and the Israeli military doing nothing about it. We have evidence of aid reaching Gaza being distributed orderly by the Gaza police (a Hamas organization) and then the police officers orchestrating the distribution being targeted and killed by an Israeli missile. The optics here is that Israel is trying to prevent aid from reaching Gaza, and what little aid gets in, they try to create chaos such that this aid is not distributed to those in need.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Demonstrably false

slily 3y ago

The idea is to stand up for the weaker party and that's it. It doesn't matter that Palestine is led by a terrorist group with a genocidal agenda with overwhelming popular support. They are weaker and therefore they can't be wrong, by virtue of being weaker they are automatically classified as oppressed and deserving of pity, whilst Israel being the stronger party makes it automatically the bad oppressive party in cartoon style. See also how no one doubts the obviously cooked numbers on Palestinian deaths. You can see this rationale mirrored exactly in the disproportionate criticism of Western states and specifically white settlers.

petee 3y ago
Many could say the same of Israel. But don't conflate protests against Israel as being in support of Hamas. Many people support neither, but are horrified how kids are bearing the brunt. Hamas commited attrocities, so has Israel; all lose in war.
- slily 3y ago
  I agree in principle, but I don't see many protesters demonstrate that nuance.
  - petee 3y ago
    Personally I've never seen a "pro-Hamas" sign, I have no doubt someone somewhere has one. Ive seen plenty of "Free Palastine" signs be called anti-semitic though, despite showing support for the people versus a government.
    - pyeri 3y ago
      That "River to Sea" phrase has a very sinister and evil meaning when you look up the original Arabic. Translations are always polished for mass appeal!
    - slily 3y ago
      I see Jews being harassed, synagogues vandalized, 4chan-tier anti-semitic conspiracy theories going around leftist circles, and more broadly I see social media armchair activists who may or may not be relevant but do affect public opinion parroting Hamas propaganda wholesale, and the protesters featured in this post's article exemplify exactly that mentality which is what I was initially describing. Most people are reasonable, but I'm not concerned with people who know the difference between a hot war and a genocide.

exabrial 3y ago

I’d venture a guess: Russian and Iranian propaganda. Why do you think Boeing is also conveniently all over the news right when war breaks out?

ein0p 3y ago
Because doors fall out of its planes mid-flight and wheels fall off during takeoff?
- exabrial 3y ago
  Have you done independent research to confirm that Boeing is an anomaly before developing that opinion, or was that opinion handed to you?
  - ein0p 3y ago
    Is Putin in the room with us right now?

ispalewhoc 3y ago

[flagged]

TheFreim 3y ago

You don't understand it because most, if not all, aren't arguing that Israel should "just take any attacks coming their way." A response needs to be proportionate, and also one needs to account for the causes of the attack in the first place. People will point to things like Israeli expansion, mass surveillance, and other issues relating to Gaza as factors which need to be considered when discerning what is an appropriate response. Now, what I just said is a very simplistic and slanted presentation, but it should suffice in demonstrating that it's not as simple as one side (the "good guys") who thinks Israel should defend itself and the other side (the "bad guys") who think Israel should allow itself to be wiped off the map by terrorists.

ergocoder 3y ago
It is proportionate, IMO. Palestine fired thousands of missiles at Israel after the Oct 7. Just because Israel is able to block most of them doesn't make it okay. Those missiles still count. At worst, this is debatable but the protesters at google think that they are absolutely correct with no debate needed. I think they all should be fired, and their names should definitely be disclosed.
- yterdy 3y ago
  Your opinion is incorrect and concerning in its confidence. Oct. 7th has been characterized as Israel's 9/11 (with, frankly, fewer deaths). Meanwhile, Israel has perpetrated a 9/11 roughly every 2.5 weeks for the past 6 months in Gaza. The difference in Hamas versus the IDF's allowance of accessibility to basic needs is also stark. In essence, a terrorist attack is not proportional to a siege.
  - me_me_me 3y ago
    only if hamas had access to billions of dollars to develop infrastructure and build up emergency shelters...
    - lodrion 3y ago

megous 3y ago

Eh, why should Palestinians though? There are many that are being attacked daily by Israel. Should they just take it? Also you're kinda assuming this contract is about defense, or that the defense is just. No idea why anyone should just take that assumption as granted.

mirzap 3y ago

Israel is an apartheid state. And this comes from prominent Israeli human rights organizations (https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid), journalists (i.e., listen to what Gideon Levy says about Israeli society), and ex-soldiers (google "breaking the silence). It's occupier. It is recognized by the international community as an occupying power. There are decades and decades of documented violence against Palestinians. And we will see in the future trials upon trials for current Genocide.

password54321 3y ago

You mean you don't understand your own straw man?