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I began as a junior dev and climbed up the ranks til the point where I became the SME in some areas of the product. Got laid off because sales goals were not m

• sneak 2y ago
  To assume all organizations reward or value expertise the same way is to cap your maximum lifetime earnings, methinks.
  • sevagh 2y ago
    I'm in this trap right now a little bit. After a particularly egregious instance of feeling passed over for a promo, how can I trust that the next jerkoff won't do the same thing?
    • autoexecbat 2y ago
      It's a pretty strong signal that your opinion of the value you're providing is not shared by those who are making the decisions. Regardless of if it's their own ignorance or not they aren't going to suddenly change their feelings about it.
      • sevagh 2y ago
        Oh yeah, agreed; I quit the moment it happened. What I mean is now I'm sort of wary of the same situation re-occurring at the next place I work.
        • dwaltrip 2y ago
          People aren’t all the same. It’s easy to forget this. And it totally makes sense to be wary! That will help you pick a better place next time. Although, to be fair, the average place probably closer to what you describe, meaning there is a limited supply of high quality places at the top end of the distribution.
          • deathanatos 2y ago
            > That will help you pick a better place next time. I'm convinced there is no means available to an employee to "picking a better place". Last time I job hopped, I tried to do that — and largely, I think I succeeded. But company leadership changed, my good boss left and was replaced by a terrible new boss (who has since also left, and been replaced by a less terrible boss) … so what I evaluated when I joined is no more. And that assumes I can even truly do a good job of evaluating a time of joining … I tend to believe I got more lucky than anything else there.
            • twojobsoneboss 2y ago
              The only constant is change. It sucks esp when later in career and just looking for stability, but it’s just the way it is. Reduce expenses, earn as much as possible, save and invest wisely, and remove your reliance on the system as soon as you can, is my advice.
    • blitzar 2y ago
      > how can I trust that the next jerkoff won't do the same thing You 100% can trust that they will do the exact same thing, accept that you are always rolling the dice and progress at the irrational whim of some higher power in the organisation.
      • skeeter2020 2y ago
        You make think that you're hiding this attitude in your professional life, but you're not. The reason it keeps happening to you is you've created a self-fulling prophecy. I'm a manager and it's odd that you think 1. we don't care for and push really hard to progress the people we manage, and 2. somehow we're so different that we're not in the same situation.
    • skeeter2020 2y ago
      it's tough, but you should put some explicit thought in to what you expect, and what it's worth to you. You'll probably have to "give some of it away for free" to prove you've got something of value; the hard part is deciding when you've given enough and can leave or deliver an ultimatum. Define something you really want to do that demonstrates your value. Tell your boss explicitly what you want and how you're going to earn it. Do the thing. Ideally you'll get the reward but if not ask. Follow through on your convictions.
    • arrosenberg 2y ago
      Control your destiny. Form an LLC and go prospect some customers on your terms.
• hinkley 2y ago
  I’ll be you ten bucks they got rid of people who bring up bad news and kept the yes-men. A company that doesn’t know what’s broken is doomed to mediocrity. But some people want to play music while the ship sinks. So they arrange for the most pleasant rest of the voyage they can, instead of saving as many people as they can.
  • vkou 2y ago
    Unless they are given meaningful equity, it's not their ship, and regardless of whether it is or isn't, unlike the shareholders and creditors, they won't be sinking with it. If you want worker interests to be even a little aligned with owner interests, the correct corporate structure is not an S corp, or a C corp, it is some flavor of worker co-op. And even then, it can't grow too big.
    • erikerikson 2y ago
      A co-op only attenuates to employees. There are better options. Example: FairShares Commons
      • hinkley 2y ago
        Don’t you have the same problem illustrated by this author? My perspective is the “untapped” people get diminished rewards for their inputs because they are being outplayed by politicos who inflate their importance to the process at the expense of others. For some people it is less work to make the system unfair than to excel on a fair system.
        • erikerikson 2y ago
          I agree that this structure has incentive problems and have so far avoided it. That said, I think it does better than a co-op. This fits the saying "the opposite of stupid is not smart". Standard corporations [frequently] used to serve only owners have a problematic incentive structure for everyone else. A co-op that serves only employees has a different bad incentive structure. Of course there are instances of improvements over the base incentive. The FairShares Commons attempts to be explicit about the balance between the stakeholders of the corporation. You can read more on Boyd's site [0] but really chapters 15 and 16 of his book Rebuild that seems to be linked there. [0] https://graham-boyd.biz/fairshare-commons/ https://graham-boyd.biz/fairshare-commons/
• dakiol 2y ago
  > Just give me some JIRA ticket and let me read books while I get my job done in 1-2 hours a day. Aren't we all (normal and decent people) doing this already?
  • switchbak 2y ago
    No. Many of us are working hard, trying to get real work done. And spending 20-40 mins a day checking Hacker News :) Seriously though, don’t you feel bad by not pulling your weight? Someone has to get your work done.
    • autoexecbat 2y ago
      > Someone has to get your work done. That's often the problem, in that it doesn't truly matter if the work got done
      • icedchai 2y ago
        There's a ton of "fake work" in corporate america. This is basically busy work that isn't used by any real customer, external or internal. That work doesn't need to be done, but shows up because someone committed to it for political reasons (or because they were clueless.) Someone needs a box checked, but didn't check if the box needed to be there in the first place.
        • autoexecbat 2y ago
          It doesn't even need to be fake/busy work. It might just not be quite what's needed by the business or customer and see little/no use.
          • icedchai 2y ago
            True, though often that sort of work "feels" different from the more traditional fake work. It's at least built with the intent / belief that a customer will actually use it.
• hankchinaski 2y ago
  I have been doing this for years and I think it's the best output per hour worked strategy if you have a clear exit plan outside scaling the so-called ladder
  • toomuchtodo 2y ago
    > if you have a clear exit plan outside scaling the so-called ladder Exit plan is FIRE. Everything else is circus and performance art. Others can play status games, I prefer wealth games: wealth is options and options are freedom. Pragmatic, smart, skilled people are extracted from unless lucky and in a position to see outsized returns from their effort. Better to know what enough is, collect enough freedom coins, and enjoy the one go you get at life. (n=1, ymmv, "show me the incentives, and I'll show you the outcome")
    • georgeecollins 2y ago
      I think that is a great plan and good advice, but you may find as you continue in your career that you enjoy work more. When I was starting out I was always tired, anxious and frustrated. Now I would never even get hired for those kinds of jobs (or take them). You may get to a point where you have a lot more power and discretion at work and enjoy it. There's a lot to be said for working at jobs you enjoy.
      • deleted 2y ago
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      • toomuchtodo 2y ago
        I hope to one day find meaningful work I am compensated for, or have accumulated enough wealth such that compensation is no longer relevant. Thanks for the reply.
      • chinchilla2020 2y ago
        I enjoy my work as well. But I realize that things outside my control can force me into a poor working situation any day.
• deleted 2y ago
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• zer00eyz 2y ago
  Did you get cut cause "we need a number" and you're expensive? Were you the growth guy when they need run the busies blood and guts people? Did they save 2 people in some other department who matter more with some horse trading? You can go and be a clock puncher. It's perfectly fine to do so. I know plenty of them, some got laid off recently and cant seem to find jobs. The high achiever's the go the extra mile types who are LIKED (dont be an asshole) are all working already. Down vote me all you want. I was here for the first (2000) tech flop. The people who went the extra mile and some safe and secure corporates were the ones who made it. Coming out the other side (the ad tech, Web 2.0 boom) there were a lot of talented, ambitious, hard working people around. Any one who wasnt that ended up in another field that made them happy.
  • creesch 2y ago
    It's all well and good to include a disclaimer about downvotes. But, it is somewhat irrelevant, as the reason you are most likely to be downvoted is not because you are touching on a sensitive subject. They are downvoting you because your argument makes it very clear you actually haven't read the article.
  • diob 2y ago
    Might want to think a bit about survivorship bias and see how it might apply.
    • zer00eyz 2y ago
      Thats the point. Who survives in a down turn? It's not the folks who are "pragmatic" its not the folks who give up... You work with two people, Bob who punches the clock and Bill who puts in the time to get the extra work done. You move on to a new job and your boss says "we need someone new on your team, Bob and Bill are here". You're not picking Bob, Bill gets your vote. Dont be an asshlole be known as at the hard worker, be helpful (maybe have to do some extra work)... your going to get picked when people are looking. Your old boss is part of your network, and so are your peers (who might end up your boss)... All those people who are survivors, who put in extra work, have strong networks who know that they are strong hires in a tight market.
• mavelikara 2y ago
  If it so happens that that company was wrong in what they did, you run the risk of optimizing for the wrong things based on one bad observation. The company doesn’t care. The negatives only affect your career.
• throwawaysleep 2y ago
  Yep. After being laid off, I decided that I am best working with the diligence of a Boeing QA engineer. Do the bare minimum and use overemployment to flee the work world as fast as possible.
• folsom 2y ago
  That is why I work like I get paid, a little bit on Fridays.
  • twojobsoneboss 2y ago
    Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I poop, on company time.
    • Pepe1vo 2y ago
      That was a rhyme from a simpler time. Now the boss makes a grand and I make a buck. So, let's steal the catalytic converter from the company truck.
      • twojobsoneboss 2y ago
        Also saw: The boss makes a dollar, I make a cent, need a side hustle just to pay the rent.
• deleted 2y ago
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• szundi 2y ago
  What about not fucking up your life and find a good comany to work for?
  • lazide 2y ago
    Since this is always relative, that’s like ‘why not just be rich?’ isn’t it? The devil is in the details and the ‘how’.
  • serf 2y ago
    That's a hard pill to swallow after years and years of the same routine 'unsuccesses' , and it relies on the personal belief that A decent life cannot be lead without success in finance and business; I believe that's simply not the case.
  • redserk 2y ago
    How is this “fucking up [their] life”? Some people don’t care about the grindset or putting in 50hr weeks. As long as work gets done and you’re reasonably keeping your skills up to date, what does it matter? If anything it’s more of a win by gaining hours of your life back that would’ve been spent people-pleasing.
    • sevagh 2y ago
      You can write whatever you want on a resume and nobody can tell if you burned out on both ends or phoned it in for 1-2 hours. So, no, holding a position for X years, when presented in a reasonable manner at the next interview, cannot possibly fuck your life up.
• swader999 2y ago
  You'd do better to go work hard for their competitors or create one.
• adra 2y ago
  And in the end, the terrible people won. Because you stopped caring seeming about anything, you're likely living a worse more jaded life, and your next company isn't getting a good employee. Learning an important lesson isn't about flushing your aspirations down the toilet. That's just cementing your destiny as someone who will never achieve moderate success. If that's your goal, shrugs?
  • voxl 2y ago
    Life is more than your job.
  • globalnode 2y ago
    > flushing your aspirations down the toilet hmm, i seem to have made this a hobby of mine.
  • interroboink 2y ago
    > the terrible people won ... you're likely living a worse more jaded life Respectfully, I think this is rather judgemental (I realize the irony that I am judging you, too :) It doesn't have to be a battle, there doesn't have to be a winner. Everybody is free to explore their limits and boundaries, and put energy into the areas of life that they find most fruitful. Maybe OP really does want a kick-in-the-pants "get back in there and fight!" pep talk — in which case, ignore me. But maybe they just decided that it was not their particular hill to die on. It takes all kinds.
  • 6th 2y ago
    No. Terrible people won because terrible people were in positions of power, as is the case often. Good jobs, great jobs even, can and do turn to shit overnight. It's often the management itself. People don't leave bad jobs they leave bad people. The job is something in their life workers, in a non-slave market, can take control of. There's no good reason for a person to stay working for nutters. There's no good|sane reason to reward bad behavior. They have ZERO obligation to fix a toxic workplace and culture. That is management's failing entirely. >your next company isn't getting a good employee. Your next employee|team member isn't getting a good boss|colleague.
  • 2y ago
• giantg2 2y ago
  Sounds similar to me. I didn't get laid off though, and my climb was only one actual promotion even though I was filling a tech lead position. I managed to switch teams right before the layoff/outsourcing. I tried hard on the next team and again achieved a great reputation in the department. But it meant nothing and I got nowhere. I even had a few people in the department ask why I was taking a demotion out of the group - I wasn't, they all just thought I was a higher level than I actually was... fuck the system.
• sojournerc 2y ago
  I was layed off after being burnt out on exactly what you're describing. The organization lost 5 years of deep institutional knowledge into their systems that I designed because i couldn't get buy in on what I thought was important.
• agumonkey 2y ago
  My life exactly. I used to dream of a kind of high drive team, did more than I should, on obvious metrics (velocity, onboarding, performance, ..) .. but the average politics in all human groups makes it too rare and you end up suffering too much absurdities. It's a lesson in statistics and relativism.