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Stop Acting Like You're Famous

• level87 2y ago
  Agree with focusing on doing it because you enjoy it, something gets lost when we try and impress others; I'm sure we can all remember being a child and doing things purely because we enjoyed it. However, I disagree with the personal style part of things, or trying to make things look good. These things don't have to be about impressing an audience. It can be just as much about enjoying the process.
  • peddling-brink 2y ago
    The way I read “personal style” was, don’t make it your whole personality. And making things look good is in the eye of the beholder. If you like design and want to make pretty things, do that and don’t worry about the criticism. For me, pretty is my code, I couldn’t care less about the UX because I’m the only user.
    • Gualdrapo 2y ago
      But the second you want to make things for anyone else is when UI/UX matters. Some people (and many people on HN) take graphic design for granted, but it's the first thing they seem about your product. It matters. Your app can work flawlessly but nobody will use it if the text has poor contrast or the buttons are comically small, for example.
      • spencerflem 2y ago
        that's the point of the article- that you shouldn't be worried about making things for something else if they're unlikely to care either way with that said, I agree with your overall point, if you're determined to make something popular you shouldnt skimp on design
      • anonzzzies 2y ago
        People say this but I never saw it matter like you say. I know many ux/ui people in my network who I ask for feedback and help; I have never seen any difference in uptake from the vanilla theme version I did myself through to months of tweaking these guys did. Sure it looks tons nicer but it doesn’t reflect at all in (measured) user satisfaction, signups or usage. The default themes these days (shadcn etc) don’t make any of the mistakes you mentioned and users that are not obsessed with tech don’t really care ‘it looks like everything else’. Maybe it’s because I never do b2c and only b2b, but I never saw the difference, not in the last 30 years anyway. Even when these design systems and widgets etc didn’t exist, people didn’t care because there was nothing better; now there is ‘more than good enough by default’.
        • _akhe 2y ago
          Would it change anything if Hacker News was redesigned to look exactly like Reddit's UI? Because a lot of people would not want that. Behind the scenes, there are a lot of similarities between the two sites - but doesn't the fact that they look so different actually make them different? If you're saying design doesn't matter at all then changing the look of Hacker News to be like Reddit should have no effect on user satisfaction, signups, or usage. I sense a bias toward minimalism (that I share) but that's still intentional design.
          • anonzzzies 2y ago
            Yes, you have a good point. And you are right about minimalism; I think though this is different in the way you state this example; reddit is now made to be annoying to make money with ads and data collection: I believe no one likes that. A better example would be: how about remake hn with shadcn ; I don’t think many would mind if it was still fast (which is not design anyway); it’s functional and clean. Reddit (new) is functional nor fast… that is not all design but js and all kinds of browser functionality hijacking to make it more likely you click on ads, lose your track so you go browse other things etc.
      • prmoustache 2y ago
        There are myriad of software that have been super popular despite having dodgy UI. But the whole point is not to care if your app is popular or not if the whole point is enjoying the process of building the app more than seeing it used by many.
      • _akhe 2y ago
        Design and branding matter a lot more than people realize. Not just in terms of appeal - it sets the stage for everything that follows. Half the social media apps are the same thing: Feed, like, block people, follow, post (with image/video, etc.), hash tags, etc. but the slightest difference in design and branding sets forth a different content platform. UI/UX isn't just aesthetics, it's utility and a huge part of what the thing is.
    • ubertaco 2y ago
      Yeah, I think another way to think about this is "don't get distracted with cultivating and maintaining your brand", rather than "don't find any particular way that you enjoy doing the thing." One of those is performative and creates pressure and expectation, often at the expense of personal enjoyment and rest. The other is just finding the bit that's interesting to you.
  • devjab 2y ago
    I think the sentiment is ok, but like you, I think the overall message is completely nonsense. It’s obviously fine to do things you aren’t enjoying as part of a process of to achieve your goals, and that doesn’t need to be about outside validation at all. I’m not very good at design, I don’t too much enjoy the process. Well I do enjoy parts of it when the hyperfocus sets in, but as a whole I don’t enjoy the process. I still do it, not because I care what anyone else will think about the end result but because, I, care about what, I, will think about it. I’m sure the author is doing some sort of simplification of things. A lot of learning processes aren’t necessarily enjoyable and almost none are enjoyable all the time. I spend years learning how to airbrush while absolutely hating the process because I wanted to be able to do certain things. Now that I can actually make the stuff I envision I enjoy the process, but sucking at the beginning? Yeah that sucked. Hell, even if your end goal, is, outside validation… go for it! But I do agree with the whole “life is short, so what you love” sentiment. It’s just that you could put it so much better and less condescending than the author does here.
    • geoffyoungs 2y ago
      It might be better to interpret in the context of the subtitle: “Advice for myself around leisure activities.” If my advice is to myself, I don’t see how it is condescending. It seems by definition that it can’t be. I cannot pretend to be above me. My summary of the sentiment would be “don’t allow the weight of imagined judgmental eyeballs to steal your joy in trying or pursuing your personal creative endeavour” There is an irony in the blog now being seen at HN scale and judged.
• nicbou 2y ago
  This is excellent advice, but there is one exception: on the internet, behave as if your username was your real name and everyone was in the room with you. Don’t use the cover of anonymity to be mean. Act as if people knew you and remembered you.
  • bee_rider 2y ago
    Also these accounts will probably be de-anonymized at some point, between leaks and style matching. We aren’t famous, so mostly it is the same as anonymously yelling on a crowded street corner, but then most of our IRL interactions are similarly anonymous-by-obscurity…
    • Joel_Mckay 2y ago
      lol, many wrongly assume the convenient services haven't made billions off those that assume any anonymity exists in their metadata. Prior to ML, it was computationally unfeasible to develop speculative dossiers on the majority of populations. Best not think too deeply on the matter... Have a wonderful day =)
  • probably_wrong 2y ago
    I wanted to comment something on that same vein: you probably won't be famous, but someone will definitely read your blog when considering whether to hire and/or date you. I applaud those that bad-mouth their previous employers because it makes my daily reading more interesting, but I can't in good conscience suggest that people should do it more.
• daghamm 2y ago
  That's easier said and done when half of the population between 15 and 45 are addicted to Instagram. Even if a small percentage of them, say 5%, decide to emulate the famous people they follow we will have too many people who believe they are important.
  • onion2k 2y ago
    Instagram likes and GitHub stars are exactly the same mechanism as far as someone who owns the content is concerned. Doing something 'to get famous', be it for your pouting selfies or your open source work, is basically the same, and anyone making a repo for the wrong reasons should heed the advice in this article. It is directly applicable to what they're doing.
  • tayo42 2y ago
    Instagram really does seem to give some people delusions or let's delusional people really embrace their disconnect from reality. It's so weird some of the things people do.
• VelesDude 2y ago
  For there to be famous people, there has to be non famous people. In the same way that up needs down, black needs white. A figure I saw once was based on "do they have a Wikipedia page" as counting as famous. And the ratio was something like 50,000:1 relative to the population. Would you bet your lives actions on a 50,000 to 1 chance? And even then do you think it would be possitive? Sometimes fame is the worst thing that can happen to someone. Being anonymous can be a blessing in disguise.
  • prmoustache 2y ago
    I would totally hate being famous.
• Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  Unfortunately, for some people an illusion of themselves is all they have left: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology) Postulating intellectual artifacts somehow bring contentment also can become unhealthy. As some folks spend their entire lives solving a civilizations perceived problems, and only later conclude most of the planet just isn't worth saving... if one becomes hapless as a consequence. One may disagree, but that is an indulgence youthful idealism often prescribes. In conclusion, goldfish crackers are awesome... =3
  • Animats 2y ago
    > In conclusion, goldfish crackers are awesome... Until the cheese mafia got to them. It's hard to get them without cheese now.
• wolframhempel 2y ago
  I feel, the current generation of AAA Games are a great example for why you should make something you enjoy rather than something designed to make money. Look at Baldurs Gate 3 vs Skull and Bones. Make something you love and are passionate about. Get good at it. Use the Internet to show it to others that are passionate about the same thing - and there's a decent likelihood of success.
  • spencerflem 2y ago
    Baldurs Gate 3 is not really an indie passion project labor of love, its "just" a really good game. to me that's the big problem with AAA is that a lot of the time they're not even good
    • wolframhempel 2y ago
      Fair enough - let's take Stardew Valley as an example then.
• Aromasin 2y ago
  > The most egregious thing you can do with any activity is daydream about how you can make money off of it. That’s the quickest way to optimize for the wrong things and suck the fun right out of it. Most likely you will stop doing the activity almost immediately, so save the money-making schemes for work. I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. It implies several things that aren't true: * That a hobby done for profit that can't also be done for fun. * That a hobby for profit can't start as a profit-making venture, but turn into a passion. * That work should be the only route to wealth. * That optimizing for wealth can't go hand-in-hand with fun. I despise the adage that a hobby is only a hobby if you aren't making money from it. I'm passionate about fantasy/sci-fi miniature building/painting, terrain modelling, and prop making. I love the expression of taking a universe that exists within the realms of novels and movies, and bringing it to the real world - to scale or in miniature. I design STLs/CAD models for 3D printing, scratch together terrain boards for people to play games on, paint miniatures any hour I get free, machine parts for various outfits and armaments, and spend hours fantasising about what universe I'm going to delve into next. None of that would be possible if I didn't monetise the process. Most of what I build, I sell. If I didn't, I would neither be able to afford the hobby nor store the stuff I make. It would end up in a landfill. Parts of the hobby I took up explicitly because they demand higher prices when I sell it, but now they're some of the things I'm most passionate about. Realistically, I'd love to do it as a full-time venture, but the semiconductor industry pays well and I'm not a famous maker so couldn't make it work - as the article states well enough. To suggest that hobbies can't both be fun and profitable though is a philosophy I think should be quashed.
  • Arcanum-XIII 2y ago
    And after a while, your hobby if physical will take space for things that are done, and that you don't need anymore. So why not resell them and fund the next steps ?
    • Aromasin 2y ago
      You raise another good point; is all monetization of a hobby the same? No, of course not. It's such a blanket statement to say "Save the money-making schemes for work". Plenty of people have collecting hobbies that almost go hand-in-hand with monetization. Stamp or coin collecting comes to the top of my mind. Value is discussed almost constantly in those communities, and people are forever uptrading their collection to become more valuable over time; it's an investment as much as anything else, and while you will seldom make money there's always an element of minimizing loss. Same with cars, video games, cards, records, and comic books. We collect them because we think they hold value, join communities that also think they hold value, and use money as a scale to judge what value it holds.
• aerhardt 2y ago
  I had a goal of programming every morning for an hour, and it wouldn’t stick… Once I dropped any pretense of making money, or getting anything out of it other than enjoying the craft, it has finally stuck.
  • VelesDude 2y ago
    There is the idea that I kind of subscribe too but not entirely, that if you want to improve yourself - you would just do it rather than force it. In that trying to force it is like Sisyphus. In giving up the battle, you are freed up to actually do it. So your exaple is great, you had a good intention but once you gave up that structure then you actually got to the goal.
    • aerhardt 2y ago
      It still takes discipline, I don't wake up every morning dying to program - sometimes the task at hand is boring, sometimes the motivation is not there, sometimes a little bit of a and a little bit of b. And I still code to a good standard of quality: I try to balance not being overly perfectionist, with making my practice deliberate so that I keep improving. For example, I test, refactor, document and plan with a backlog. But removing users from the equation lifts a massive weight from my shoulders. Like the article says, I leave that for work.
  • ponow 2y ago
    So, do the habit every day, but don't do it because of any secondary goal (like money), other than the immediate goal doing the habit itself. Problem is, if you haven't completely bought into the habit yet, and it feels uncomfortable relative to other options, I don't know that you can avoid asking yourself "why" you're doing the habit. In your example, I guess you already find programming fascinating, but hadn't found the discipline to practice regularly. But I still don't know how many people wouldn't abandon developing the habit if they get stuck in the weeds. Imagine learning the violin, because you've liked to listen to classical music. It takes a lot of faith when you're stuck hearing how bad you sound at the beginning, and how you have to duck nasty glances or comments from others in your household that have to endure your practicing. A secondary goal might be to be admitted to an orchestra and do concerts that your friends and family might attend. But that being "vanity" means that we should only focus on the primary goal of enjoying violin music. Again, I see many people getting lost in the weeds without secondary goals of some sort acting as a lodestar.
• pat64 2y ago
  I’m going to hard disagree with this. A lot of the enjoyment I get from creation is the process of others enjoying what I’ve built. Further more, building for others is great for building out areas you’re weak or inexperienced in. Like, I was poor on the accessibility front until I found the thing I created resonated with the visually impaired folk.
  • spencerflem 2y ago
    depends on the project for me, but I'm totally with you there's the things I do for me, because i would like for them to exist and have fun making it. But for anything that's not exactly that, having someone else care is extremely motivating
  • bayindirh 2y ago
    I think you're agreeing with the article without knowing it. Because you're doing what you enjoy at the end of the day. For example, I design logos and small branding for my (mostly) CLI tools which I write for myself first. Seeing these projects at completion levels comparable with other, bigger projects brings a lot of joy to me. A coherent README.MD, nice documentation and good written code is what I aspire to do, and I do it for myself first. If others like it, that's great. If it doesn't get any attention, then it's OK, because I wrote that tool to fill my needs first.
    • Notatheist 2y ago
      The article wasn't saying "do what makes you happy". It was saying "if you do this you will not be happy". If I end up happy you don't get to loop back and go "Well that was the goal! You agree with me!". The author also forgets that the author is their own audience. That audience is what one imagines others might be. The pursuit of that audience's approval is valuable. >A coherent README.MD, nice documentation and good written code is what I aspire to do, and I do it for myself first. Did you conjure the definition of "nice" and "good" in this context from thin air? No. You defined good by what others told you was good. You're working for an audience. You're disagreeing with the article without knowing it.
• throwaway7h65 2y ago
  A little ironic that the author is submitting their own blog posts to HN about the topic :)
• b33j0r 2y ago
  So, if I’m hearing the zeitgeist correctly. Currently, the best competing advice I hear along venn intersections is: 0. Do less things 1. Do things at a natural pace 2. Obsess over quality 3. Don’t obsess over quality, eff the haters! 4. Do more things ;)
  • Arcanum-XIII 2y ago
    Uhmm, the correct way would be: 0. focus on less thing; 1. have fun doing them; don't stress about it, you're not competing; 2. do it, more and more. The important point is to DO. Everything else will come, eventually.
    • b33j0r 2y ago
      Touché. It’s just fun to watch this attitude towards productivity go in cycles. Yesterday they recommended that it was a glass of wine, and before that two glasses of red, then a bottle of white. We kinda always knew it was wine, and like… stuff we can abstract away about blood pressure, moderation, hangovers, fond memories, and whatever, uncle Conrad. No, we solve that particular thing like all things. But as a consumer, you’ve gotta average out the signal of strong claims. “Eff it!” and “Obsess over it!” are diametrically-opposed opinions about work, which I suspect many of us agree with both, a bit. We try to explain it over and over again as each generation finds the same problems with new tools. Maybe it’s not that bad—but hey, at least my commentary was coherent enough to post ;p
  • VelesDude 2y ago
    It is a strong theme of taoism that in giving up on clinging to a set goal, it allows you more flexibility to do great things when needed.
• emp_ 2y ago
  > daydream about how you can make money off of it. I do this but mostly from trauma of having to kill things due to hosting costs (happened before), as long as its cheap/self sufficient enough the fun part dominates.
• zjp 2y ago
  I recommend against Grammarly because I like when I see peoples' idiosyncrasies and it's little fuckups that move language forward.
  • sph 2y ago
    I defiantly do not want to see people's typos move the language forward, especially when it's native speakers always making the same silly mistakes, for some reason (could of, they're/their, your's, etc.). I do like non-native speakers translating and incorporating their local sayings into English prose.
    • Hackbraten 2y ago
      If enough people are making the same mistake, won't it eventually stop being a mistake?
      • __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        Depends on the mistake, some constructions just fail to do what the author wanted them to. Those are unlikely to catch on.
      • sph 2y ago
        Not until my dying breath. The English language is a mess because of its haphazard evolution mostly driven by immigration over centuries. Which is what bugs me about native grammar mistakes: only native people make them. No one that has learned English as second language could ever construct "could of" as it makes no sense. And the act of being defiant is very very different than being definite about something. Yet people get this wrong all the time, as if they never learned grammar at school, or let alone read ONE book. (My pet peeve is native speakers unable to pronounce "aesthetics" correctly. Drives me nuts. )
        • VelesDude 2y ago
          I do see where you are coming from but alas, language is an ever moving democracy. As much as many would like to define it in certain terms - it is largely beyond control. This is why the English of Shakespeare doesn't hold up today because we are constantly adding and changing these things in a wonderfully organic fashion. It just makes it difficult to define. The question is should we define it or is it like catching the wind with a net? Another example is the word Monetize. It used to mean to turn a item into a form of money like currency. Almost nobody uses it like this nowadays. Decimate is another one.
• resonious 2y ago
  > ... stop optimizing for a non-existent audience and instead focus on what makes you enjoy the activity. What if I enjoy optimizing for a non-existent audience?
  • nurettin 2y ago
    You are not alone.
  • BlueTemplar 2y ago
    It has to be said that thanks to the Internet, it's now perfectly possible for the most niche audience to connect with the author.
• shymaple 2y ago
  Awesome blog, I just loved the way wrote it. And I am totally agree with you. We don't need to be perfect or try to make perfect at first attempt, the more important is to enjoy the journey and honing the skills.
• radres 2y ago
  Anyone knows how I can get the same style of this blog? I can't access the css for some reason /s
• kunley 2y ago
  Good article, there is a certain level of being tied by what others might think while they don't give a damn actually. I guess this is somehow inherent to the US society (I am from Central Europe and don't observe this things at such scale) and it would be actually interesting to scientifically track the origins how it went this way
• hoseja 2y ago
  Living in the panopticon, it's really hard to take this advice to heart. You have to self-censor all the time as if in front of large audience, the leap to believing that audience is interested in the positive aspects of your output, to make the constant vigilance worth it, isn't large, however delusional it may be.
• anonzzzies 2y ago
  I have done this all my life (which is also ‘my career’); it paid off accidentally big time in the beginning (90-00s) which made me enough to retire, but I like what I do (as per the article). Now I still work the same way but the money just isn’t there anymore, and the only thing to at I don’t do vs people who make a lot worse stuff but make millions is: get out there and act like I am a rockstar/musk. I hate that social media posing but it seems it’s the difference; we all have seen products here on hn that were absolute garbage but because the creator is acting like some football hero who just scored, many people go for it and they get subscription payments and vc moneys. I won’t change my ways as I have enough money, but I would be quite… not happy starting out in these times and having to pose and fake until I make etc.
  • ionwake 2y ago
    Sounds like a SF VC domain thing, I’m sure BS doesn’t work in other realms. Or was this early success in a different area?
  • syndicatedjelly 2y ago
    I think all things you said will allow you to get rich. But more money isn’t everyone’s end goal, nor does that always lead to happiness (or even a “better” life)
• hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
  This is probably good advice for someone else. For me, life got both a whole lot more interesting and a whole lot more fun when I started acting like I was famous.
  • tayo42 2y ago
    What do you do to act famous? Obsess over your Instagram image and dress covertly when you go out grocery shopping?
• bitwize 2y ago
  Main character syndrome is a disease. But you can get help. Call the number on your screen.
• imiric 2y ago
  I generally agree with the sentiment of doing what you enjoy first, and not thinking about an audience that may or may not exist, but the suggestions themselves will vary from person to person. > Design is for an audience and you don’t have one. It's wrong to generalize like this. Good design drives your work forward, and if you enjoy doing it, then by all means focus on that first. Not appeasing an audience even when you have one is also a good idea. Art is an expression of the artist, and it dies once it starts being created for an audience.
• asta123 2y ago
  My son put effort into dressing up for his Year 10 formal as that is what you do. But during the event he observed that most kids focused on how they looked rather than noticing others, and thought he should have spent a lot less effort into his outfit :)
  • watwut 2y ago
    > But during the event he observed that most kids focused on how they looked rather than noticing others Genuinely, that is good. People who care and judge how others look beyond normal social propriety tend to be pretty bad to be around.
    • jshorty 2y ago
      I think the point is more around the collective distraction of dressing to a formal (and for kids, unfamiliar) standard, rather than enjoying time with the people around you at a party.
    • loup-vaillant 2y ago
      Or that's bad, because all those kids who spent time looking good, didn't get as many compliments for their effort than they expected, or perhaps even deserved. There are many caveats with judging people by their appearances, but complimenting someone on the part of their look they put unusual effort in for some unusual occasion, seems pretty healthy to me. (Well, there's also the caveat that the rich ones will have better access to exquisite clothes to begin with…)
  • m463 2y ago
    I think kids are constantly comparing. Watch how many of them are buying exactly what their friends buy, so they can fit in and relax a bit.
    • damsalor 2y ago
      Not just kids
• trueismywork 2y ago
  Even Terence Tao advises mathematicians to develop their own personal style when writing mathematics. Your own personal style, based on your experiences, is what makes you unique and hence might make you famous. You might not become famous by developing your own style but you'll definitely not be you if you don't.
• fedeb95 2y ago
  as Marcus Aurelius reminds us, the applause of the crowd matters very little since our life is very short and death will cancel it anyway for us.
• sidcool 2y ago
  Is it bad if I yearn and pine for fame? I know it's frowned upon, and I bury the urge for fame, but deep down, I am hooked to other's validation and fame.
  • VelesDude 2y ago
    I wouldnt say it is bad but be careful of what you wish for. On the flip side if someone is merely after fame that is not such a bad thing by comparison. It is not like those that seek wealth and power, it is at least going a more ethereal and potentially much less destructive goal. Having lots of fame doesn't necessarily take from others. The problem with a lot of fame is that the more of it you get, the more decided people will be. A good modern example would be Taylor Swift. Some people love her, many don't even notice but some call her Taydolf Swifler. Turns out you cannot get just the good, you have to have the bad come with it as well. Unless you are Weird Al, everybody loves him!
• keiferski 2y ago
  I haven’t studied the topic enough, but it would be very interesting to see when this dichotomy of money-making vs. self-interest really embedded itself into the act of creation. Somewhere during the Industrial Revolution, I suppose. But I also think the default mode of “art as self expression” plays a big part, and that’s more early-mid 20th century. Because when you read about creators during say, the Renaissance, you don’t really have this much of a dichotomy. Da Vinci worked on a paid portrait project, and then did unpaid experiments on his own which ended up being useful for his paid projects. It was a very loop-like thing and I think he would find the explicit framing of “I’m doing this to make money” and “I’m doing this purely to create something I want to create” as alien. Ditto for most forms of art in most parts of the world, prior to the late 19th century. The solution, I think, might be to focus primarily on the craft and not on the end product. You see this a lot with early 20th century fiction writers that moved in and out of journalism, with the idea that they were becoming better at the craft of writing, not at creating a final product or “being a good fiction writer.”
  • timwaagh 2y ago
    In the sense of the article artists have always done their best to cater to the taste of the people who might pay them. At least from the 16th century. They were typically paid for and protected by a mecenas (wealthy Merchant or nobility). There are no doubt exceptions but in general the art was to please their mecenas.
    • keiferski 2y ago
      Right but (and I could be wrong here) it seems like lamenting this is largely a recent thing. Renaissance artists were focused on creating the best possible work, not lamenting that they had to make paintings for money and not for their own desires.
      • dommrr 2y ago
        You are making quite the assumption there. There are quite a few among us focusing on creating the best possible work. And there are quite a few back then who did the opposite. Wouldn't you wonder where the conception that things were different came from?
• nercury 2y ago
  This sounds like "You aren't having fun properly".
• imhoguy 2y ago
  Well, there is also a thing called reputation, especially when job background checks include internet/social-media scan these days. So I try to build trashy things under my anonymous nickname(s), it is much more fun like in 90s.
• fcatalan 2y ago
  This resonates with me. I can't have relaxing hobbies: I take them up, find some measurable/competitive/social aspect in them, smash my way from "rookie" to "advanced beginner" to "top 20 percentile" in very little time and then agonize about the ensuing plateau and how getting into the top 1% would require complete dedication or might be realistically out of reach for me. By that time I stop enjoying doing whatever the thing is. Not fun anymore. People will sincerely praise me and it will feel empty because I know there are millions of better painters, my laptimes are a full second off the ultimate pace, my guitar skills only good enough for playing alone in my office, my leisure programming projects all pointless and abandoned. I envy two kinds of people: those that have found some thing they are very good at and keep enjoying it forever, but also those that can enjoy something for years even if they are realistically mediocre at it and never improve. And the money making part is also true for me. I took up miniature painting and quite soon was at the level where people will pay you decent money to paint their miniatures for them. I started getting offers and accepted one, not for the money, probably just out of pride. It was complete hell, I hated the result and every minute I spent painting it. The client was happy, me, I guess I learned my lesson: never again.
  • bayindirh 2y ago
    Why not apply kaizen to your hobbies? 1. Do the best you can. 2. Identify the weakest part of the artifact you just made. 3. Design an improvement to that part only. 4. GOTO 1. This will make you cherish the progress and only "compete" with yourself, on your terms.
  • _glass 2y ago
    Thanks for giving me ideas to add to my 200 hobbies, miniature painting it is. I even have an app (Streaks) that reminds me daily of thousands of things I want to do, and it just shows how unrealistic it is. I want to concentrate on just two things, but then I hate to plateau on the other skill. Right now I concentrate on guitar and trumpet. But my painting and drawing skills are really not that good anymore. I try to also publish some academic papers, repair my bike, lift weights, run, get better at theorem proving, read into all of the social sciences, read philosophy (Kant, Hegel), experiment with Arduino, build a repertoire in Rebetiko ... If you find a trick to just do one things, tell me.
• Techbotch 2y ago
  I disagree to some extent. E.g. I like to tinker, repair and build stuff and then blog about it. I put quite some effort into the writing part and every finished post gives me joy. Blogging has become a hobby in its own right. It also helps with getting projects done, because now the project is finished only when the post is out. All of my three regular readers like the results, too. Of course, earning money from that never crossed my mind – in that respect, I fully agree.
  • etrautmann 2y ago
    Seems like the blogging is still primarily motivated by your own enjoyment which makes perfect sense and seems to agree with the article.
• d--b 2y ago
  Ok the most important sentence in this essay is its subtitle: “Advice for myself around leisure activities” Personally I am no perfectionist at all, but I don’t see the fun in making stuff myself that I could otherwise buy. I took up sewing, not because I want to sew the perfect shirt, but because men’s fashion sucks. That said, I sew stuff I can wear. So it needs to look at least as good as what I could buy. I don’t think that it’s “acting like being famous”. Similarly, I am writing a screenplay, because I have a lot of experience reading bad screenplay that were actually made into movies, and I think I can write one that is at least as good as the worst ones I read. I don’t paint or take photographs because I know mine will look terrible. Maybe that would be my advice in taking up hobbies: aim to be better than the worst people who do it professionally.
  • atoav 2y ago
    This is good advice, I'd like to ad one caveat tho: It is not a good idea to base your decision whether to start doing a hobby on your own perceived ability to get good at it. For one the much more important metric is whether you enjoy doing it, because ultimately you are doing it for yourself. Secondly, as an educator I have to say that many people absolutely suck at predicting their own inability to learn a thing. There are many people who say they will be bad at $X and because of that prediction they avoid doing $X, which in turn is the reason they can never become good at $X. It is much better to just take the gift that Punk culture has given us and focus on finding A) joy in doing things even if you are not good at them and B) finding your own way of doing them, because for many hobbies there just isn't one objectively good way of doing them.
  • selestify 2y ago
    > Maybe that would be my advice in taking up hobbies: aim to be better than the worst people who do it professionally. I guess this is my gripe with advice in general: Why should anyone else make that their aim? It’s great that it works for you, but I don’t think that’s applicable to me :)
    • maximus-decimus 2y ago
      Using something you build brings a lot of satifsaction.
• amadeuspagel 2y ago
  > The most egregious thing you can do with any activity is daydream about how you can make money off of it. That’s the quickest way to optimize for the wrong things and suck the fun right out of it. Most likely you will stop doing the activity almost immediately, so save the money-making schemes for work. People will even ask you about this.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• humbleferret 2y ago
  Ash's main takeaway is solid — Immerse yourself in hobbies or creative pursuits without being overly concerned about external validation or the potential for monetary gain. Other takeaways that stuck with me were: — Finding enjoyment in the process of learning and improving your own skills is crucial. — Setting personal goals can help fuel growth. — Sharing your work with others is a way to receive feedback and learn from other perspectives, but don't let pursuit, perfection or seeking monetisation overshadow the joy of the activity itself. — Intrinsic rewards of your hobby or pursuit trump validation or financial gain. In the end, you need to find something you enjoy doing, and do it because you ENJOY it.
  • resource_waste 2y ago
    200 years later, people rewrite Nietzsche.
    • keithalewis 2y ago
      Or the more practical, and hilarious, J. P. Donleavy. "Scrub your floors!"
  • glitchc 2y ago
    Was that the takeaway? The message I got from reading it is that you're not going to be famous no matter how hard you try, so just enjoy yourself.
• MrStonedOne 2y ago
  [dead]
• rsynnott 2y ago
  Minor gripe, but I don’t love the setting off of design against functionality. UX Design isn’t just about aesthetics; a good design makes an object, or piece of software, or whatever, more functional.
• nickelpro 2y ago
  Hard disagree with this as a polemic When I take photographs of my friends, it is incredibly important to me that they be in focus, sharp, with a good depth of field bokeh that brings out their face and presents an attractive image. I take a huge amount of pride when a photo I shot ends up as a profile picture or widely shared. That's a large part of why I take them, to share with others. Got my current job because of my public code and the quality of articles I have written on subjects relevant to the employer. When I interviewed they largely skipped the technical parts and focused on cultural fit and the kinds of projects I wanted to be involved with, because my publicly demonstrated track record left no question about the quality of my work. It is fine to have some activities you enjoy without perfectionism, but there is a world of advantages that can come from a focus on quality.
  • yawboakye 2y ago
    you talk about something else. sometimes, in fact most times, this imaginary and large audience (who also happen to be great critics) can beat anyone into inaction and kill whatever little flame we were nursing. it’s all in our heads, which means we end up defeating ourselves. it isn’t an ode to mediocrity, imo. if anything, practice and more practice is the best cure for mediocrity.
    • titchard 2y ago
      I think this is spot on - how many times have people (and I include myself) stopped on a project that is even remotely public facing because it isn't perfect-grade work before you've even learnt the first steps?
    • nickelpro 2y ago
      I don't understand the difference in what I and the OP are talking about. The OP said, "In the end, find something you enjoy doing and just do it because you enjoy it. If you have to, make some goals for yourself, but never for your 'audience'" Presenting to the audience is my goal. If you're telling jokes, your goal is to make your "audience" (friends/coworkers/family/etc) laugh. The only way you can get funnier is to try jokes out and see what gets a response, the measure of quality is external, not internal. I don't tell jokes to myself in an empty room. I don't take photos just to look at them myself in Lightroom. I don't write open source code just to put it on a thumbdrive and throw it in the bin. None of the activities I, personally, enjoy work without an audience. The audience is entirely the point. Without the audience I wouldn't enjoy them. Saying "do things for yourself without an audience", period, without caveat, is wrong for tons of stuff.
• boo-ga-ga 2y ago
  This really resonates with me. Of course it's great to create something that other people enjoy, share it with them, get feedback etc. But it also might create a pressure that will strip off all the pleasure from the activity completely. So for myself, I decided to share my creations and welcome feedback, but also see the main goal in creation itself.
• redder23 2y ago
  I actually have the opposite problem. I think it would help me if I would act MORE like I was, well I would not say famous but like promoting stuff, talking about it. Marketing myself and by business, just "presenting" myself. It does not help someone create the greatest thing ever in silence when nobody will ever know about it.
• mapreduce 2y ago
  Why is it so that every so often one of these feel-good LinkedIn-style posts make it to the front page? Is there so much demand for banality on this site? I come here to read good tech articles or articles that stimulate my curiosity and it is sad to see these articles upvoted to the top when so many other good articles at https://news.ycombinator.com/newest https://news.ycombinator.com/newest continue to languish.
  • blowski 2y ago
    Simplicity bias, kind of like "bikeshedding". A large number of people can read this quickly, agree with it, and upvote it. Whereas articles about optimising machine code for the Apple Silicon CPU, or "Risks to the Glen Canyon Dam" are a lot more niche. Personally, I follow specific people who regularly submit interesting content, and pay less attention to the homepage.
    • emotional_fool 2y ago
      Could you mind sharing those accounts?
      • blowski 2y ago
        I'd suggest going through https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders and looking at their submission history.
        • palata 2y ago
          Never thought about that, thanks! This post was worth it just for this!
        • cableshaft 2y ago
          Wow, I thought I had accumulated a pretty decent amount of karma with my 7800 over the past decade, but nope, those put me to shame. Interesting idea. I'll give it a shot.
• tiborsaas 2y ago
  Title should have been: "You can still enjoy building things regardless of how many followers you have".
• Springtime 2y ago
  > Anything you do or create will probably receive little to no attention, so stop optimizing for a non-existent audience [...] The most egregious thing you can do with any activity is daydream about how you can make money off of it [...] In the end, find something you enjoy doing and just do it because you enjoy it. I don't understand the equivalence the author is ultimately making in suggesting that creating something with polish is expecting to make money (and fame) from it. Yet notice all the things in the blog post are creations that are exposed to the internet (photography blogging, releasing a program online, making a website), rather than private, non-published hobbies which literally have no audience. Some prefer to make things polished/more complete as they want others to enjoy something more and polish makes it more accessible/usable/meaningful, or because it's a reflection on them (whether using an IRL identity or even a pseudonymous one) and part of their enjoyment of the process. Since we all know the audience is whoever will come across it, once something is released in the wild. Might be an audience of one, or many. Which isn't to say people need to care about the output of hobby but I disagree that money/fame is the only motivation in improving something.
  • egeozcan 2y ago
    I think if you like polishing things than do so. As far as I could understand, the point is not doing it with the expectation of any recognition.
  • rndmio 2y ago
    I would suggest you don't understand the equivalence because it's not there. They aren't saying that creating something with polish is expecting to make money off it. They're saying when you start a new hobby or interest forget about trying to tailor your output to an audience that doesn't exist and focus on skill. Maybe you really want to produce something polished, but the reasoning for that should be for your own development and edification not because you want it to appeal to others. Prioritise what makes you happy and gives you enjoyment not what you think other people want.
    • Springtime 2y ago
      I mean, consider there are a swathe of things I've made for self-development, that aren't released to others since they're incomplete, less usable for others not sharing the same brain, not great quality, etc. It would weigh on me from an empathetic standpoint to not improve upon them if being released to others, so they're not and that's fine. Much like an artist's practice sketches they're intended for one's own private goals only. The article isn't really framed like that though and downplays the internet as an inherent audience. Improving something even for just a random other person to enjoy/find utility in isn't inherently attention or money chasing, it's just bridging a gap.
• TrackerFF 2y ago
  Software engineering aside, I've definitely noticed that in other sectors - especially on the creative side of things - there's this expectation of you not only to be a good craftsman, but also have a brand. Be a personality.
• jongjong 2y ago
  The problem is that if you do what you enjoy, it's very unlikely to correspond to what customers want. I suffered from this a lot because I love coding. There's a point when you may want to adjust your priorities. Beyond a certain point, it becomes defeatist to always do what you want. I get though that the industry can feel like a giant psyop though so maybe it is better to be defeatist... Not sure.
• bravura 2y ago
  There's a lot to unpack here and a lot of nuance that is getting missed in the discussion. I've learned a similar thing over my years, so I'll share: The pressure to do something amazing or uniquely is very very real. This can lead you to avoiding a lot of hobbies (sports, crafts, etc.) that would nonetheless very very personally fulfilling. Understand that having a beginner's mentality can be fun in many pursuits. (This is an idea from zen.) For a few things we have mastery, most things we will enjoy as beginners. Additionally, if you cannot do something with the desired results, the key thing is to find a variation of the activity that you find satisfying. For example: 1) I think I'm bad at sports. Wait, actually, I just hate sports that don't completely immerse me. Hence, I figured out way late in life that I enjoy surfing and squash. 2) I want to take photographs. I hate my photographs. Wait, actually I hate digital photography. Analog point and shoot gives me satisfying results. (Or, using a 90s Nikon coolpix if you're gen z, apparently.) So for the people who are like: "Yeah, but you can't SUCK at your activity", my response is: "Right, but you also shouldn't give up on the activity wholesale because you're not a natural prodigy, and there's probably a non-obvious variation where you don't feel like you suck as much, perhaps because the variation is harder to critique." in the real magic here. And, again, there's something special about trying something new. The people that tend to plateau in a pursuit are the ones who start out "good" because they are addicted to their strengths and avoid their weaknesses. Being bad with potential, those are the non-lucky people that end up mastering their field.
• neffo 2y ago
  TFA: stop acting like you're famous TFA (later): well, we made it to the front page of HN
• seydor 2y ago
  ... so that other people can become famous by pretending to be famous? I won't bite, we fake it until we make it in this era, and we care more about the cover than the content
• odyssey7 2y ago
  1 The words of the Teacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem. 2 Vanity of vanities, says the Teacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity. 3 What do people gain from all the toil at which they toil under the sun? 4 A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever. 5 The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hurries to the place where it rises. 6 The wind blows to the south, and goes around to the north; round and round goes the wind, and on its circuits the wind returns. 7 All streams run to the sea, but the sea is not full; to the place where the streams flow, there they continue to flow. 8 All things are wearisome; more than one can express; the eye is not satisfied with seeing, or the ear filled with hearing. 9 What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun. 10 Is there a thing of which it is said, “See, this is new”? It has already been, in the ages before us. 11 The people of long ago are not remembered, nor will there be any remembrance of people yet to come by those who come after them.
• creesch 2y ago
  > Do you want to build an app or website but don’t enjoy the process of designing? Then make it ugly. Who cares! Well... I do as the only user of what I create. It doesn't have to be perfect, but I also don't like clunky interfaces. So even though it isn't the process I enjoy doing most all the time I still put in the effort.
• can16358p 2y ago
  I think the emphasis is not "don't create for others" but more on "don't let people-pleasing get in front of the actual joy of whatever you are supposed to enjoy", which I'd personally agree with. For photo example: If creating a style on Instagram for more presence and likes etc. does NOT negatively impact your photographic process and decisions, but solely build on top of the hobby that you already enjoy without social media, then go ahead.
• rsp1984 2y ago
  It really boils down to what you define as "leisure activities" and everyone is different and often multi-faceted in that regard. So this certainly fails as a one-size-fits-all advice. There are hobbies we do out of pure enjoyment. E.g. for me personally this is (choir-)singing. I know so many people who are better singers than I am (or ever will be) yet I couldn't care less. I am 100% happy with my skill level. If anyone else comes to the conclusion that somebody else is a better singer than I, they're probably right! Then there are hobbies we do b/c we like the skill itself or b/c we want to have what comes with it. E.g. when I do a SW or HW side-project I really do want to create the best product (as niche-y as it might be) and yes, I do care a great deal about whether others like it or not. Put simply I want to be the best b/c I can be the best. I couldn't imagine doing this just for fun. TBH the whole idea of just-for-fun side projects sounds absurd to me.
• tristor 2y ago
  Not only is this bad advice, it’s perhaps the worst advice. I clicked this expecting it to be about attitudes, expectations, and entitlement, such as people who expect special treatment because of their social media profile. Instead it’s someone who is encouraging you to actively suck at what you do and to take no pride in your work when it is a hobby. Let me counter this with an age old adage that is simply true: “Anything worth doing is worth doing well.”
  • ubertaco 2y ago
    I might suggest reading the second and third sentences of the article, which directly refute your interpretation: >Want to try a craft or artistic hobby? Focus on mastering the skill and enjoy the variety it can provide. "Focus on mastering the skill" is directly the opposite of "actively suck at what you do and take no pride in your work". >Let me counter this with an age old adage that is simply true A thing that is repeated often enough isn't "simply true" just because it's repeated often enough. Perhaps consider the situational applicability and limited-exhaustiveness of pithy proverbs.
• kayo_20211030 2y ago
  Decent advice, because you're not famous, but... > As long as your thoughts are coherent, don’t worry too much about writing mistakes or filtering yourself. If your grammar is poor, and there are mistakes, the chances of being coherent are diminished.
• Nekorosu 2y ago
  The title could also be "Breaking out of a product thinking."
• ponow 2y ago
  OP written by someone well-employed, so anything done outside steady paid work ought to be done for enjoyment. Nice luxury, that many don't enjoy.
• acjohnson55 2y ago
  I dunno, I think people should do what makes them happy. Don't know why the author is so crabby about it. The artists and innovators I respect the most are people who have gone way out a limb to put effort into a expression or endeavor, knowing full well that it might not appeal to anyone else. It takes a lot of effort, self belief, and perseverance to do this, and there's no guarantee of success. In fact, success is unlikely. But a world where everyone follows the author's advice feels mediocre to me.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• glitchc 2y ago
  This goes counter to "Make things other people would want simply for the purpose of making good things."
• _akhe 2y ago
  Hypocritical - because all the edge-lordiness in the title and writing style is for an audience too. It comes across as typical anti-individual ("anti-millennial") drivel by a person paralyzed by society out of fear, who now wants to share that paralysis with others. This kind of paralysis (and writing style) comes from failure - either too much or not enough. This author should have made a song, a documentary, an app, a painting, a company, documented making a dish from an ancient recipe, recorded themselves doing their first kickflip, made a pixel-art game engine in C, traveled to the Richat Structure to prove that it is/isn't Atlantis, etc. but instead of all that much cooler stuff that would further enlighten themselves and the world, they wrote this projection of insecurity. "Don't try." Nobody says this louder than people who either give up too easily or are afraid of challenges. Maybe they've never experienced the fruits of labor when it comes to a personal venture - economic or otherwise. You really can sell software, get brand deals on a YouTube channel, get sponsored doing action sports, perform on stage in front of thousands, gain fans by living and documenting an incredible life on social media. It's not only possible, but it's a lot more fun than living as a copy/paste bubble jacket drone who has to go to work, who never does or says anything interesting. The author's choice to not use CSS is not effortless minimalism by the way, it's the same thing as his moody black and white photo example - it's a conscious decision to appear a certain way to an audience. This article is what a crab in a bucket looks like in the wild. The author is trying hard - they're just putting more effort in keeping contemporaries down than pulling themselves up. A sad state of our youth.
• heywoodlh 2y ago
  I recently started my own Mastodon instance for myself in this same train of thought. I noticed that one of my toxic traits was reaching out to people too often about things I found interesting. Expressing my own interests on my own Mastodon instance — even if nobody is looking at it — has been amazing for me to be more self-sufficient emotionally when it comes to my interests. It’s almost like a tech diary for me at this point. Similar to parent, I find tremendous value in making myself my target audience.
• WoodenChair 2y ago
  It’s true you’re not famous. But the rest of this is pretty bad advice. If you’re an indie app developer and you don’t care about design, nobody will use your app—not just the people who care about design. If you’re a blogger and you don’t care about grammar, some people will be turned off by your terrible writing. I assume anything you do you want to do well. If that’s not the case then definitely take the advice in the original post.
  • biotinker 2y ago
    It's pretty bad career advice. If you're an indie app developer trying to make a living developing indie apps, then you need to care about design. If it's not your career, then it's great advice. A few years ago I had a need for an app which would allow an android tablet to play media when power was connected and pause when power was disconnected. Nothing like that existed (at least open source) at the time, so I dug up some ancient school project someone made for an android app back in 2010, updated it to allow media controls, and used it. I published it on fdroid, but I put zero effort into updating the already-then-outdated UI and never updated it again unless I had another need for it. I wasn't getting paid for app development and design. I am not trying to get paid for app development and design. To the extent that having done this impacts my career, I think "bothered to create a custom android app for his personal project" says a lot more about me than "does not have a state of the art UI for his custom personal project app". If people are turned off from that app by the outdated UI, I could not care less.
• charles_f 2y ago
  It's fun how this makes me both agree and disagree at the same time. For whatever reason I manage to re-sign in to LinkedIn or Twitter once in a while, and boy do I hate the tone of people who act like they're some sort of business guru. Beyond the point of the article, there's a pretentious tone that I think one should avoid. But stuff like: > Blogging is fun and therapeutic. Grammar and editing aren’t I have to disagree with. I like the craft portion of any activity. It's the type 2 sort of fun, where it's not necessarily fun when you do it, but the result makes you proud and happy, so it's worth it. I think a better advice might be to do things for yourself rather than trying to please others?
• tr3ntg 2y ago
  There are people out there so utterly brain-broken (myself included) who seek to monetize every little personal hobby. “Maybe I should start journaling” turns into “How can I be a thought leader on bleeping journaling?” And it ruins everything. I’ve done this multiple times and regret it. I’ve only recently adopted the mindset that this author is attempting to convey, which is simple: identify what you enjoy and why, and just do it - don’t try to exploit it and monetize it (which the author has strangely conflated to “being famous” I think) So I like the article. It’s a nice reminder. As to the other commenters railing against its “LinkedIn-ness” or it being a platitude, sure - but it’s upvoted and it is what it is now.
  • didip 2y ago
    What's wrong with monetizing every little thing? Our time is limited and capitalism is expensive. Just make sure you enjoy the process.
    • meheleventyone 2y ago
      Nothing if you feel it to be fulfilling but for a lot of people it raises the bar on what could be a fun hobby to something else and often includes a bunch of elements you'd normally not care about. As a gamedev my brain is continually broken trying to make games in my own time because I'm so used to treating games as a product. There's a wide gulf between doing that as a hobby and doing it as a job. Particularly in motivation around the end result.
    • SkyPuncher 2y ago
      Often the activities to monetize something have little overlap with the activity itself or they change the way you do something so it’s no longer enjoyable.
    • Bjartr 2y ago
      There's nothing wrong with it, it was merely being pointed out that it's not an obligation or moral requirement.
    • badpun 2y ago
• incrudible 2y ago
  My advice is to do the exact opposite of what this article recommends you to do. You will not look back fondly and proudly on all the half-assed things you did to just to have fun, whatever that means. Writing a blog post to rationalize it will not help either.
• leobg 2y ago
  Author is probably a firstborn. If you’re 3rd in birth order, you don’t need that reminder.
• haunter 2y ago
  >I am a software engineer based in San Francisco It's a decent blog post but smells like rich person (compared to majority of the world) privilege. Always easier to talk from above.
  • jrockway 2y ago
    We're shit talking people on HN now because they're software engineers from silicon valley?
    • haunter 2y ago
      Personally I don't find any amusement in the pseudo intellectual wisdom of software engineers, especially from SV. And sure why not it was shared here. I’d rather listen to the people on the streets in Africa and how they see life and the future.
  • sandyarmstrong 2y ago
    > Advice for myself around leisure activities.
• rietta 2y ago
  I appreciate the author's perspective, but my approach in life has been based largely on two biblical verses that I memorized in childhood. Those are 1) "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters" (Colossians 3:23) and 2) "Do you see someone skilled in their work? They will serve before kings; they will not serve before officials of low rank" (Proverbs 22:29). These two verses come to my mind often and have formed the basis of how I approach nearly everything in life both work and hobby. I feel the pursuit of excellence is a thing both for work and life in general. On the Internet, everything is my work. I do not have some benefactor job outside of what I do. For my hobbies and sports, I approach everything with diligence and care. I hope to raise my children to do likewise.
  • arcastroe 2y ago
    I like the overall message of the two passages, promoting hard work and valuing skill. But I dont like that both passages emphasize working for someone else. I agree with OP's sentiment of working for yourself, even if that means producing no income at all and learning your skills in a self-motivated manner as a hobby.
    • TacticalCoder 2y ago
      > But I dont like that both passages emphasize working for someone else. Yeah. I was reading GP's interesting thoughts and was thinking: "At least I already got the part about not working for human masters right"!
      • rietta 2y ago
        We are always serving someone or something. For many, money is their master. Or prestige is their master. Or self image is their master. Or personal desires are their master. Since this thread quoted bible, I will point out Jesus said (it is rendered in red letters) that "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money" (Matthew 6:24). Anyway, I am not trying to hijack this thread and sermonize or anything. Just tying up a loose end that forms a important basis for how I personally have grown to understand the world.
• TheNewsIsHere 2y ago
  The subhead to this article is: > Advice for myself around leisure activities. Which I think is worth restating here. It’s one thing to, say, buy Azure AD Premium so you can obtain auth logs and put them someplace/analyze them for your startup. That’s just taking your work seriously. But unless you’re learning or practicing, or perhaps building out demo or educational content, you might want to consider whether your personal AAD tenant needs that at home. (I’m not staking a claim on that. Just an illustrative example.)
• more_corn 2y ago
  I love this idea. I don’t actually want to be famous. Michael Jackson used to pay a supermarket to shut down so he could play at being a normal person. You and I can just go to the supermarket and be a normal person.
• EricE 2y ago
  Along the lines of this it reminds me of the people who obsessively baby things like phones so they can "preserve the resale value". Screw that. If someone wants a pristine phone they can buy a new one like I did. It's bonkers.
• tomcar288 2y ago
  >>> "The most egregious thing you can do with any activity is daydream about how you can make money off of it. That’s the quickest way to optimize for the wrong things and suck the fun right out of it. Most likely you will stop doing the activity almost immediately, so save the money-making schemes for work." This is an important point. The quickest way to make something unfun, is to get paid for it! That's because the second you get paid for something is the second you start doing it for someone else, creating value for someone else. you get paid to create value for others, not yourself. Play is creating value for yourself, not others that's why you don't get paid to play.
• moondev 2y ago
  It's funny, I catch myself doing this with mechanical keyboard tinkering. I really enjoy it but perhaps trying to find that missing right shift so I can take a sick DSLR picture that I anticipate would get upvotes is futile at the end of the day.
• tmaly 2y ago
  This reminds me of a podcast episode that featured Rick Rubin. He said make your art for yourself, make it like it is a diary entry.
• boznz 2y ago
  I wrote my book for me to fix everything I thought was wrong with the books I was reading. Unfortunately, it was hard to write without writing for an audience and I think it made the writing better when I wrote it knowing my daughter would probably read it one day. Happy to know I will never be famous but through my writings I will outlive my short time on this earth.
• thepunkoff 2y ago
  Oh my god, I hate it so much. Please, be yourselves. Don't listen to the author's "do"s and "don't"s. No one's opinion matters. Just yours. Just do what the hell ever you want! Optimise for non existent users, carve youur personal style, act like you're famous, please do. Love yourself and be free. Be what you want to be. I hate this article so much.
• escapedmoose 2y ago
  In contrast to this, there’s something really special about finding your little niche of fans. There are about 6 or 7 people on Tumblr for whom I make a lot of my art (though it’s all open to view for the public and generally has 50-100 repeat followers). We’ll often riff off of each others’ art as well; I find that making art for that small community inspires me, makes the work more enjoyable, and pushes me to produce much better work than I would for just myself. But apart from finding a close community like this (who just happen to be online), I agree that engagement-driven or profit-driven creativity is generally an inspiration killer. It’s one of the main reasons why I chose to keep art as a hobby rather than a career. If I lost the passion for it, I wouldn’t know what to do with my life.