7 ms·

Pure anecdata - I bought a hyundai instead of a Tesla because of Elon. And I know 2 people who hate EVs because of Elon. Brands matter and when the brand is ti

by beachy 2y ago

Pure anecdata - I bought a hyundai instead of a Tesla because of Elon. And I know 2 people who hate EVs because of Elon. Brands matter and when the brand is tightly bound to someone who emits untrammeled narcissism that can't be other than detrimental to the bottom line.

karp773 2y ago
Right on the money! You are not alone.
timmg 2y ago
Just personally: I don't get this behavior. Like I don't care about the politics of the employees of companies I buy from. I'm not sure how that could be important to me. Yes, Elon is very visible. But there are a lot of employees at every company. Do you really know that there are no "bad people" working at Hyundai? I feel sad that this is the place the word has come to. I assume that, like everything, it is just a cycle that will go the other way at some point.
- t4ng0pwn3d 2y ago
  I don't care about politics behind companies but he annoys me so much and seems so wild that I'd feel buying one could be a risk re: long-term service. Which is pretty true in Sweden with his whole Unions debate here.
- free_bip 2y ago
  It seems like a pretty understandable position to me... A company is its employees. Their politics will affect the companies decisions long term. Additionally in America corporations have a lot of political power and giving them money ("voting with your wallet") allows them to lobby/bribe politicians onto their side of the political spectrum.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > I don't get this behavior Cars have always had massive social signalling value. Brands, e.g. every sports car driven by a non-professional driver, are built on this. Like, if you drive a spotless custom-coat sawed-off muffler F-450 in New York City or Palo Alto, people might make assumptions about you based on that information. Same, now, for a Tesla. For many people, this is immaterial. For a few it is decisive. For most, it’s a marginal signal. In a crowded car and even EV market, the switching costs are low.
- abc_lisper 2y ago
  Most people don't want to buy from someone they don't like - I mean this is where cult worship and brand image are important. It is not for no reason Forbes creates a list of most valuable brands every year https://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/list/ https://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/list/ Other way to look at it is, would you care if the seller employs child labor, slavery etc?
- runako 2y ago
  > Do you really know that there are no "bad people" working at Hyundai? Elon does not just "work at" Tesla. He is the CEO, the face of the brand. He is actively creating a personal brand that is incredibly polarizing, and Tesla is tied to that personal brand. Similarly, Zuckerberg is the face of Meta. His personal branding efforts are around him doing MMA and stuff like finding cancer cures and educating poor kids via the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative. The CEO's personal branding will usually impact any consumer product.
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  I don't need the top-to-bottom employee structure of an entire org to be 100% with me on all political or social issues. That's unreasonable. All I really ask for is enough plausible deniability that I'm not directly funding people who would seek to have my friends harmed in the name of their social projects. Unfortunately this is getting harder and harder to manage as everyone is now their own brand manager and feels the need to publicly and financially support their preferred political party, politician, or organization. You can feel however you want about it. Everyone has a line to draw in their own plot of sand with regard to what they're willing to tolerate and what they're not on this axis. That said if, for example, you don't believe women have the right to their bodies, that people don't have the right to express themselves, those sort of baseline "human" things, then you can very reliably count me out on supporting anything you make if I can possibly avoid it.
  - timmg 2y ago
    > that people don't have the right to express themselves Actually, that's exactly what I do believe. That was the gist of my comment.
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      It was? I don't think I understood your comment, then.
      - timmg 2y ago
        What do you think it means that "people should be allowed to express themselves"?
        JohnFen 2y ago
        Perhaps we're talking about different comments here. I thought I was responding to this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40055668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40055668
- fckgw 2y ago
  In a capitalist society, voting with one's wallet is one of the only actions of power one has.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  We (in the US, anyway) live in a capitalist society. A consequence of this is that every dollar we spend is like a vote telling that company "I like what you're doing, keep it up." If a company appears to be doing things that I don't like, whether or not it has anything directly to do with the company's product or service, it's entirely reasonable to withhold my "vote" from them.
glonq 2y ago
My least favorite thing about owning a Tesla is the association with Elon.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  You know something is wrong when you consider buying the bumper sticker that says "I bought this before Elon went crazy". This is the Elon I bought from: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/elon-musk-threatens-to-leave-white-house-councils-if-trump-drops-paris-accord.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/elon-musk-threatens-to-leave...
  - appplication 2y ago
    It’s a good point. There was a point in time where he was, at least in the public eye, a risk taker and arguably visionary, or at the very least having a whole lot of vision for what the future of the space/auto sectors. Now he seems to be just another victim of internet/media culture war rage.
t4ng0pwn3d 2y ago
I think it's even more stupid than that - the people who buy EVs in bulk are normally a certain group, fiscally and socially, yet that's the group he spends most of his time demonising on Twitter. The group that buy EVs is definitely broadening nowadays but I think that I'm still mostly correct.

by beachy 2y ago

karp773 2y ago

Right on the money! You are not alone.

timmg 2y ago

Just personally: I don't get this behavior. Like I don't care about the politics of the employees of companies I buy from. I'm not sure how that could be important to me. Yes, Elon is very visible. But there are a lot of employees at every company. Do you really know that there are no "bad people" working at Hyundai? I feel sad that this is the place the word has come to. I assume that, like everything, it is just a cycle that will go the other way at some point.

t4ng0pwn3d 2y ago
I don't care about politics behind companies but he annoys me so much and seems so wild that I'd feel buying one could be a risk re: long-term service. Which is pretty true in Sweden with his whole Unions debate here.
free_bip 2y ago
It seems like a pretty understandable position to me... A company is its employees. Their politics will affect the companies decisions long term. Additionally in America corporations have a lot of political power and giving them money ("voting with your wallet") allows them to lobby/bribe politicians onto their side of the political spectrum.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> I don't get this behavior Cars have always had massive social signalling value. Brands, e.g. every sports car driven by a non-professional driver, are built on this. Like, if you drive a spotless custom-coat sawed-off muffler F-450 in New York City or Palo Alto, people might make assumptions about you based on that information. Same, now, for a Tesla. For many people, this is immaterial. For a few it is decisive. For most, it’s a marginal signal. In a crowded car and even EV market, the switching costs are low.
abc_lisper 2y ago
Most people don't want to buy from someone they don't like - I mean this is where cult worship and brand image are important. It is not for no reason Forbes creates a list of most valuable brands every year https://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/list/ https://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/list/ Other way to look at it is, would you care if the seller employs child labor, slavery etc?
runako 2y ago
> Do you really know that there are no "bad people" working at Hyundai? Elon does not just "work at" Tesla. He is the CEO, the face of the brand. He is actively creating a personal brand that is incredibly polarizing, and Tesla is tied to that personal brand. Similarly, Zuckerberg is the face of Meta. His personal branding efforts are around him doing MMA and stuff like finding cancer cures and educating poor kids via the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative. The CEO's personal branding will usually impact any consumer product.
ToucanLoucan 2y ago
I don't need the top-to-bottom employee structure of an entire org to be 100% with me on all political or social issues. That's unreasonable. All I really ask for is enough plausible deniability that I'm not directly funding people who would seek to have my friends harmed in the name of their social projects. Unfortunately this is getting harder and harder to manage as everyone is now their own brand manager and feels the need to publicly and financially support their preferred political party, politician, or organization. You can feel however you want about it. Everyone has a line to draw in their own plot of sand with regard to what they're willing to tolerate and what they're not on this axis. That said if, for example, you don't believe women have the right to their bodies, that people don't have the right to express themselves, those sort of baseline "human" things, then you can very reliably count me out on supporting anything you make if I can possibly avoid it.
- timmg 2y ago
  > that people don't have the right to express themselves Actually, that's exactly what I do believe. That was the gist of my comment.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    It was? I don't think I understood your comment, then.
    - timmg 2y ago
      What do you think it means that "people should be allowed to express themselves"?
      - JohnFen 2y ago
        Perhaps we're talking about different comments here. I thought I was responding to this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40055668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40055668
fckgw 2y ago
In a capitalist society, voting with one's wallet is one of the only actions of power one has.
JohnFen 2y ago
We (in the US, anyway) live in a capitalist society. A consequence of this is that every dollar we spend is like a vote telling that company "I like what you're doing, keep it up." If a company appears to be doing things that I don't like, whether or not it has anything directly to do with the company's product or service, it's entirely reasonable to withhold my "vote" from them.

glonq 2y ago

My least favorite thing about owning a Tesla is the association with Elon.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
You know something is wrong when you consider buying the bumper sticker that says "I bought this before Elon went crazy". This is the Elon I bought from: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/elon-musk-threatens-to-leave-white-house-councils-if-trump-drops-paris-accord.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/elon-musk-threatens-to-leave...
- appplication 2y ago
  It’s a good point. There was a point in time where he was, at least in the public eye, a risk taker and arguably visionary, or at the very least having a whole lot of vision for what the future of the space/auto sectors. Now he seems to be just another victim of internet/media culture war rage.

t4ng0pwn3d 2y ago

I think it's even more stupid than that - the people who buy EVs in bulk are normally a certain group, fiscally and socially, yet that's the group he spends most of his time demonising on Twitter. The group that buy EVs is definitely broadening nowadays but I think that I'm still mostly correct.