5 ms·

Not only that, but women are going to college in greater numbers, many are out earning men. Dating can be challenging under those conditions.

high_na_euv 3y ago
How many women out-earn men?
- walthamstow 3y ago
  Anecdata: 3 men on my 7-man Engineering team are outearned by their wives. London millennials for reference.
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  Seems to be around 26% outearn their partners
caddemon 3y ago
Some of that is just social conditioning though, or maybe an innate instinct but an irrational one in today's day and age. There's no reason a woman can't be the primary breadwinner, and most high earning women I know are very open to dating someone with a much lower salary as long as they are a good partner. But more often than not the guy has a hang up about the situation or is otherwise unwilling to contribute enough around the house. So instead you end up with dual high income paying for cleaning service, daycare, etc.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Yeah when I read all these comments about how hard dating is for men now, how impossible it is and think about the professional women I know and their dating experiences.... They have very reasonable standards in how they expect men to treat them, and the men they date are overwhelmingly not willing to rise to those standards. These standards are maybe much higher than they would have been even a generation ago but for the most part they are still very reasonable! And I am not even talking about money here.
  - llm_trw 3y ago
    This seems backwards. If your friends can't find men that meet their standards by definition their standards aren't reasonable since they aren't being met. Were they reasonable they would be met. Let's not pretend that social media hasn't had a much worse impact on women than on men.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      This is implicitly assuming men's expectations are valid and correct, but not women's. The standards I'm talking about here are things like "will not mock or belittle me" and "will consider me an equal participant in the relationship and value my desires accordingly." They haven't misunderstood the situation or made a mistake. Their BATNA is to not have a spouse and they are taking it. Where a generation or two they might have settled for someone who treated them dismissively, but not abusively.
      - llm_trw 3y ago
        >The standards I'm talking about here are things like "will not mock or belittle me" and "will consider me an equal participant in the relationship and value my desires accordingly." What you're describing there is a woman's expectation of a man. A man's expectations of a woman have nothing to do with the above. >Their BATNA is to not have a spouse and they are taking it. Interesting claim, let's revisit it when they are in their 50s.
        giraffe_lady 3y ago
        I'm in my 60s so most of my close acquaintances are in their 40s, 50s and 60s as well actually! The lifelong unmarried women have some what-if type feelings re: children of course but not the misery you're hoping for. None of the rest regret leaving their shitty husbands, or are willing to accept another weak marriage.
        llm_trw 3y ago
- anthonypasq 3y ago
  the average woman simply does not respect men who make less money than them. you can come back with all sorts of anecdotes and every women claiming that isnt the case, but the data on this is very clear. its my opinion that you simply cannot trust people's words when it comes to hypothetical partners. Peoples stated preferences and actual actions are completely divergent.
  - longtimelistnr 3y ago
    I'm not saying data doesn't exist, but this kind of thing makes me laugh i suppose because its just dating. All my friends have no trouble getting girlfriends and as we are recent college graduate age, most do not have salaried jobs and if they do are not the highest paying jobs. In this 22-25 age range though I do notice most of these women are self sufficient usually employed in the service industry or entry level degree related position. But overall dating is not something i care to even acknolwedge statistics about. Never going to find a partner if you're not living a fulfilling life and have unrealistic standards.
  - regentbowerbird 3y ago
    Could you point us to the very clear data you mention about women having no respect for men earning less than themselves?
    - bequanna 3y ago
      This is well established: Generally, women will pursue men with higher socioeconomic status, men do not make a distinction and optimize for sexual attraction.
      - regentbowerbird 3y ago
        It's interesting but what's the source beyond saying "this is well established"?
    - anthonypasq 3y ago
      marriages where the woman is the higher earner have substantially higher divorce rates
- ImHereToVote 3y ago
  Are there any numbers supporting this analysis?
martinky24 3y ago
You are implying more men are left single, unable to afford a house, because they can't find a partner, because the pool of available women isn't available in them? Hmm...
meowfly 3y ago
If you're a young man in your prime without rich parents and you slacked or lack the ability to compete in the job market, unless you are very charismatic, you won't make a particularly interesting partner. 20 years ago your dating pool was far more limited to location and social circles you were in. Online dating has decimated that. The illusion that you are a big win away from achieving a fast track to status is the allure.

high_na_euv 3y ago

How many women out-earn men?

walthamstow 3y ago
Anecdata: 3 men on my 7-man Engineering team are outearned by their wives. London millennials for reference.
zeroonetwothree 3y ago
Seems to be around 26% outearn their partners

caddemon 3y ago

Some of that is just social conditioning though, or maybe an innate instinct but an irrational one in today's day and age. There's no reason a woman can't be the primary breadwinner, and most high earning women I know are very open to dating someone with a much lower salary as long as they are a good partner. But more often than not the guy has a hang up about the situation or is otherwise unwilling to contribute enough around the house. So instead you end up with dual high income paying for cleaning service, daycare, etc.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Yeah when I read all these comments about how hard dating is for men now, how impossible it is and think about the professional women I know and their dating experiences.... They have very reasonable standards in how they expect men to treat them, and the men they date are overwhelmingly not willing to rise to those standards. These standards are maybe much higher than they would have been even a generation ago but for the most part they are still very reasonable! And I am not even talking about money here.
- llm_trw 3y ago
  This seems backwards. If your friends can't find men that meet their standards by definition their standards aren't reasonable since they aren't being met. Were they reasonable they would be met. Let's not pretend that social media hasn't had a much worse impact on women than on men.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    This is implicitly assuming men's expectations are valid and correct, but not women's. The standards I'm talking about here are things like "will not mock or belittle me" and "will consider me an equal participant in the relationship and value my desires accordingly." They haven't misunderstood the situation or made a mistake. Their BATNA is to not have a spouse and they are taking it. Where a generation or two they might have settled for someone who treated them dismissively, but not abusively.
    - llm_trw 3y ago
      >The standards I'm talking about here are things like "will not mock or belittle me" and "will consider me an equal participant in the relationship and value my desires accordingly." What you're describing there is a woman's expectation of a man. A man's expectations of a woman have nothing to do with the above. >Their BATNA is to not have a spouse and they are taking it. Interesting claim, let's revisit it when they are in their 50s.
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        I'm in my 60s so most of my close acquaintances are in their 40s, 50s and 60s as well actually! The lifelong unmarried women have some what-if type feelings re: children of course but not the misery you're hoping for. None of the rest regret leaving their shitty husbands, or are willing to accept another weak marriage.
        llm_trw 3y ago
anthonypasq 3y ago
the average woman simply does not respect men who make less money than them. you can come back with all sorts of anecdotes and every women claiming that isnt the case, but the data on this is very clear. its my opinion that you simply cannot trust people's words when it comes to hypothetical partners. Peoples stated preferences and actual actions are completely divergent.
- longtimelistnr 3y ago
  I'm not saying data doesn't exist, but this kind of thing makes me laugh i suppose because its just dating. All my friends have no trouble getting girlfriends and as we are recent college graduate age, most do not have salaried jobs and if they do are not the highest paying jobs. In this 22-25 age range though I do notice most of these women are self sufficient usually employed in the service industry or entry level degree related position. But overall dating is not something i care to even acknolwedge statistics about. Never going to find a partner if you're not living a fulfilling life and have unrealistic standards.
- regentbowerbird 3y ago
  Could you point us to the very clear data you mention about women having no respect for men earning less than themselves?
  - bequanna 3y ago
    This is well established: Generally, women will pursue men with higher socioeconomic status, men do not make a distinction and optimize for sexual attraction.
    - regentbowerbird 3y ago
      It's interesting but what's the source beyond saying "this is well established"?
  - anthonypasq 3y ago
    marriages where the woman is the higher earner have substantially higher divorce rates
ImHereToVote 3y ago
Are there any numbers supporting this analysis?

martinky24 3y ago

You are implying more men are left single, unable to afford a house, because they can't find a partner, because the pool of available women isn't available in them? Hmm...

meowfly 3y ago

If you're a young man in your prime without rich parents and you slacked or lack the ability to compete in the job market, unless you are very charismatic, you won't make a particularly interesting partner. 20 years ago your dating pool was far more limited to location and social circles you were in. Online dating has decimated that. The illusion that you are a big win away from achieving a fast track to status is the allure.