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The desktop might be quite diverse, but the diversity on closed, proprietary ecosystems like iOS is controlled by one party. Either, we open up iOS so anyone ca

The desktop might be quite diverse, but the diversity on closed, proprietary ecosystems like iOS is controlled by one party. Either, we open up iOS so anyone can distribute apps without Apple being the ultimate authority (like on MacOS), or we enrich a much more mature platform (the web) that we already have to be more capable so we can deliver very similar experiences through the web that we currently build native apps for. Compared to iOS, the web platform is more secure with better privacy controls [1][2], and that feels like a better place to invest our energy. [1] https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/ https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/ [2] https://changelog.com/jsparty/316#t=00:25:59.26 https://changelog.com/jsparty/316#t=00:25:59.26

isodev 3y ago
I'm not sure how the close aspect of iOS is relevant, it feels like a strawman. You say the web is more mature, to which I reply that this is the same circumstance as leaving one browser to become dominant (which we already did). In a perfect world, having a closed option would be "one of the options on the table" but for the majority of users this is not the case. Introducing WebUSB (or any of the more exotic features on the list) will not help us towards an open platform. On the contrary, it will only worsen the dependence on a handful of corporations that can afford to invest to build a browser. Remember, even Microsoft couldn't afford to continue working on their own engine. As a developer, I care very deeply about being able to make my apps and experiences available to "all the platforms" but shifting the cost of compatibility into userland is not a long term solution. Just put yourself in the shoes of a traveller, struggling to pay for their last-minute plane ticket at the gate but being greeted with "Sorry, our checkout page doesn't work on your browser/device". This is not the way.
- hasanhaja 3y ago
  The closed aspect directly speaks to how much diversity you can have on the platform. The features (like WebUSB) aren't the drivers for a more open platform, but they highlight what the impact of having no competition does. Opening up the platform will fuel competition and the market can decide what works and what doesn't. At the moment, we just have to trust Apple has our best intentions by supporting/not supporting certain features and standards. However, we know from the work the Open Web Advocacy has done that this isn't true. The primary driver for both stifling progress on Safari and keeping browser competition out is the profits from the App Store [2]. Chrome becoming the dominant browser is also concerning, and they will have to be held to a much higher scrutiny by us and policy makers to ensure they have users best interest at heart [3]. > shifting the cost of compatibility into userland What do you mean by this? > struggling to pay for their last-minute plane ticket at the gate but being greeted with "Sorry, our checkout page doesn't work on your browser/device". This is not the way. I agree! This is exactly why we can't depend on one organization to dictate what's allowed and disallowed on that platform. On iOS, think about how long it took Apple enabled Apple Pay support for non-safari browsers even though they all had to be WebKit-based. [3] https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#the-chromium-argument https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#the-chr...

isodev 3y ago

I'm not sure how the close aspect of iOS is relevant, it feels like a strawman. You say the web is more mature, to which I reply that this is the same circumstance as leaving one browser to become dominant (which we already did). In a perfect world, having a closed option would be "one of the options on the table" but for the majority of users this is not the case. Introducing WebUSB (or any of the more exotic features on the list) will not help us towards an open platform. On the contrary, it will only worsen the dependence on a handful of corporations that can afford to invest to build a browser. Remember, even Microsoft couldn't afford to continue working on their own engine. As a developer, I care very deeply about being able to make my apps and experiences available to "all the platforms" but shifting the cost of compatibility into userland is not a long term solution. Just put yourself in the shoes of a traveller, struggling to pay for their last-minute plane ticket at the gate but being greeted with "Sorry, our checkout page doesn't work on your browser/device". This is not the way.

hasanhaja 3y ago
The closed aspect directly speaks to how much diversity you can have on the platform. The features (like WebUSB) aren't the drivers for a more open platform, but they highlight what the impact of having no competition does. Opening up the platform will fuel competition and the market can decide what works and what doesn't. At the moment, we just have to trust Apple has our best intentions by supporting/not supporting certain features and standards. However, we know from the work the Open Web Advocacy has done that this isn't true. The primary driver for both stifling progress on Safari and keeping browser competition out is the profits from the App Store [2]. Chrome becoming the dominant browser is also concerning, and they will have to be held to a much higher scrutiny by us and policy makers to ensure they have users best interest at heart [3]. > shifting the cost of compatibility into userland What do you mean by this? > struggling to pay for their last-minute plane ticket at the gate but being greeted with "Sorry, our checkout page doesn't work on your browser/device". This is not the way. I agree! This is exactly why we can't depend on one organization to dictate what's allowed and disallowed on that platform. On iOS, think about how long it took Apple enabled Apple Pay support for non-safari browsers even though they all had to be WebKit-based. [3] https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#the-chromium-argument https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#the-chr...