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At this point, how could anyone even contemplate buying from such a scummy company? ... (not necessarily staff, although you'd have to assume that many of them

At this point, how could anyone even contemplate buying from such a scummy company? ... (not necessarily staff, although you'd have to assume that many of them have bought in the Elon hype and are, as such, complicit). If branding means anything in this day and age, how can you associate yourself with such scummy brand? As a customer or employee? I was a fanboy a decade ago. Wouldn't touch them with your bargepole now ... If you have one - sell it - or get the batteries repurposed into a conversion project.

mschuster91 3y ago
> At this point, how could anyone even contemplate buying from such a scummy company? Sad to say it but Tesla is still miles ahead of the competition in specs (power, torque, speed, range) at the respective pricepoints.
- neom 3y ago
  I don't drive, and I've not looked for a while, but just from the car stuff I see on YouTube, surly Hyundai are getting pretty close?
  - t43562 3y ago
    Yes, Tesla are not streets ahead anymore in range. The infotainment is still widely considered to be best but other manufacturers are improving and do well on other metrics which may balance it up for you. There are also a lot more reasonably priced cars from other manufacturers - depends where you live but there's a lot of choice in Europe/UK now.
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  But it's far behind in safety, comfort, ergonomics, quality, privacy. So we need to chose what is important to us
  - throwaway61024 3y ago
    Tesla is still ahead of it competitors in safety [1][2]. Can you elaborate on what you mean by privacy? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Zoe#Safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Zoe#Safety [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3#Safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3#Safety
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - master-lincoln 3y ago
      Maybe referring to safety disadvantages was unfair then, thx. I just had the Cybertruck Finger 'Guillotine' in mind. And the cases of things slipping under the accelerator pedal, blocking it and causing safety issues. For privacy I had this report in mind where Tesla workers shared private images recorded by a customer car[0] [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
- brtkdotse 3y ago
  > power, torque, speed Unless you’re planning on driving on a course, or being an asshole in traffic, these matter a lot less than people think in day-to-day driving
  - cjk2 3y ago
    Yeah this. Which is why I sold my turd and bought a shit city car.
- KaiserPro 3y ago
  The only thing its really ahead on still is miles per kwh, even then its kinda not true. (My renault zoe does 4.8 miles per kwhr, if its warm) Power, Torque, speed and range have all been bested by other manufacturers, who've also manage to make the bodywork line up properly. At the moment the only thing that tesla do better than anyone else still is: Being shits to staff, and charging infra.
  - stephenitis 3y ago
    I love the power, torque, speed, and safety of the Tesla, I'm happy to trust it with the lives of my family over a Toyota. What else can compare at the same price point? + charging network + software feature. And the dealership free sales process. Not a fan of Elon's politics. Are the other car manufactures more moral than Tesla? it seems like Tesla is a news magnet. I hate to say it but I'm still a fan of the car, and experience so far in my first year of ownership, 23' model y performance. TBC
- kelnos 3y ago
  With the exception of range, those specs generally don't matter unless you bring your car to the track. Well, ok, they matter if you like to find ways to drive more aggressively and unsafely.
- brnt 3y ago
  > power, torque, speed, People still care about that?
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    I'm German, we have Autobahns where you have two choices, either a sustainable speed of 120 km/h and more on long range, or you waste your time stuck behind 80km/h trucks.
    - brnt 3y ago
      I thought it was 3, the left lane was 160+? ;) More seriously, what car can't do 130km/h sustained? Range, sure, that's important on electric cars, but the rest? It's been a loooooong time since I heard people really care about that. This isn't the 70ies, where you were sailing the road in your 2CV and hoping for tailwinds.
cjk2 3y ago
I bought into it back in 2017 before the marketing facade fell. I was a fool, an idiot and a moron. As an actual qualified engineer I should have looked at the whole situation in detail and read through it. After owning my model S for 9 months I sold it because it was full of quality issues and I did not feel safe driving it on a daily basis especially with my kids in the car. It regularly just slapped the brakes on and it the gains were well overstated. The doors didn't close properly, the trim didn't line up and the windscreen spontaneously cracked when it was parked in an underground garage for 2 days. Charging was a constant nightmare as well because all the limited fast chargers were either slow or busy all the time. The experience was so bad I went to a bottom end second hand 1.0L Citroen with physical tactile controls only. I owned that for 6 years. The entire cost of the vehicle, the ownership, the fuel and all maintenance was less than the depreciation of the Model S in the time I owned it. A lot of people are hanging on marketing and hope. That's not a safety conscious decision. It's a bad company with bad products and dubious claims.
- megak1d 3y ago
  Hmm you obviously had a bad experience with your Tesla, I want to contrast it with my experience - I bought a new Model S in 2016 and still own it now. I owned ~10 cars prior (both non-premium e.g. Ford/VW and premium cars e.g. AM/BMW) and it is the best car I've had both in terms of running costs, failure rates and practicality (luggage space, good for family etc). I've now 8 years old, covered ~60k miles (I don't commute in it) - still has ~85% range it had when new and has been back to Tesla perhaps 4 times total in that time. That said, I've heard a lot of horror stories from others re. Tesla ownership - thankfully, I've not seen it myself. Musk's antics have turned me off the brand a little but based on my experience, I'd buy another.
hypnoosi 3y ago
While I understand the concerns about the company's branding and leadership, owning a Tesla is actually a dream of mine =D Despite everything, Tesla owners report being incredibly satisfied with their vehicles (think I saw a survey the were happiest?). Performance, innovation, and environmental benefits... Unfortunately, buying one is not within my budget at the moment. It's a goal I'm working towards, and hopefully, by the time I can afford it, the issues you've highlighted might see some resolution =P
- cjk2 3y ago
  People who buy expensive things are more satisfied with them. That doesn't mean they are objectively better or that is correct. Edit: an analogy: I have a really nice expensive mechanical watch but my shit $10 Casio is objectively more useful and keeps time better. So that get used more.
- nkrisc 3y ago
  Because being dissatisfied with it would mean admitting to themselves that they made a very expensive mistake, and that doesn’t feel good. Many addicts are very satisfied with their drugs.
- dgellow 3y ago
  What innovations are you interested in?
- stephenitis 3y ago
  23 model y owner. Quite happy after 1 year. 0 issues Extremely happy
- roeles 3y ago
  Why not rent one for a week and see if you really like it that much?
jstsch 3y ago
I really enjoy my second hand 2020 Model 3 LR. Amazing car, never had any issues. If I compare it to my father's 2022 Kia EV6, it's still leagues ahead.

mschuster91 3y ago

> At this point, how could anyone even contemplate buying from such a scummy company? Sad to say it but Tesla is still miles ahead of the competition in specs (power, torque, speed, range) at the respective pricepoints.

neom 3y ago
I don't drive, and I've not looked for a while, but just from the car stuff I see on YouTube, surly Hyundai are getting pretty close?
- t43562 3y ago
  Yes, Tesla are not streets ahead anymore in range. The infotainment is still widely considered to be best but other manufacturers are improving and do well on other metrics which may balance it up for you. There are also a lot more reasonably priced cars from other manufacturers - depends where you live but there's a lot of choice in Europe/UK now.
master-lincoln 3y ago
But it's far behind in safety, comfort, ergonomics, quality, privacy. So we need to chose what is important to us
- throwaway61024 3y ago
  Tesla is still ahead of it competitors in safety [1][2]. Can you elaborate on what you mean by privacy? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Zoe#Safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Zoe#Safety [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3#Safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3#Safety
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - master-lincoln 3y ago
    Maybe referring to safety disadvantages was unfair then, thx. I just had the Cybertruck Finger 'Guillotine' in mind. And the cases of things slipping under the accelerator pedal, blocking it and causing safety issues. For privacy I had this report in mind where Tesla workers shared private images recorded by a customer car[0] [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
brtkdotse 3y ago
> power, torque, speed Unless you’re planning on driving on a course, or being an asshole in traffic, these matter a lot less than people think in day-to-day driving
- cjk2 3y ago
  Yeah this. Which is why I sold my turd and bought a shit city car.
KaiserPro 3y ago
The only thing its really ahead on still is miles per kwh, even then its kinda not true. (My renault zoe does 4.8 miles per kwhr, if its warm) Power, Torque, speed and range have all been bested by other manufacturers, who've also manage to make the bodywork line up properly. At the moment the only thing that tesla do better than anyone else still is: Being shits to staff, and charging infra.
- stephenitis 3y ago
  I love the power, torque, speed, and safety of the Tesla, I'm happy to trust it with the lives of my family over a Toyota. What else can compare at the same price point? + charging network + software feature. And the dealership free sales process. Not a fan of Elon's politics. Are the other car manufactures more moral than Tesla? it seems like Tesla is a news magnet. I hate to say it but I'm still a fan of the car, and experience so far in my first year of ownership, 23' model y performance. TBC
kelnos 3y ago
With the exception of range, those specs generally don't matter unless you bring your car to the track. Well, ok, they matter if you like to find ways to drive more aggressively and unsafely.
brnt 3y ago
> power, torque, speed, People still care about that?
- mschuster91 3y ago
  I'm German, we have Autobahns where you have two choices, either a sustainable speed of 120 km/h and more on long range, or you waste your time stuck behind 80km/h trucks.
  - brnt 3y ago
    I thought it was 3, the left lane was 160+? ;) More seriously, what car can't do 130km/h sustained? Range, sure, that's important on electric cars, but the rest? It's been a loooooong time since I heard people really care about that. This isn't the 70ies, where you were sailing the road in your 2CV and hoping for tailwinds.

cjk2 3y ago

I bought into it back in 2017 before the marketing facade fell. I was a fool, an idiot and a moron. As an actual qualified engineer I should have looked at the whole situation in detail and read through it. After owning my model S for 9 months I sold it because it was full of quality issues and I did not feel safe driving it on a daily basis especially with my kids in the car. It regularly just slapped the brakes on and it the gains were well overstated. The doors didn't close properly, the trim didn't line up and the windscreen spontaneously cracked when it was parked in an underground garage for 2 days. Charging was a constant nightmare as well because all the limited fast chargers were either slow or busy all the time. The experience was so bad I went to a bottom end second hand 1.0L Citroen with physical tactile controls only. I owned that for 6 years. The entire cost of the vehicle, the ownership, the fuel and all maintenance was less than the depreciation of the Model S in the time I owned it. A lot of people are hanging on marketing and hope. That's not a safety conscious decision. It's a bad company with bad products and dubious claims.

megak1d 3y ago
Hmm you obviously had a bad experience with your Tesla, I want to contrast it with my experience - I bought a new Model S in 2016 and still own it now. I owned ~10 cars prior (both non-premium e.g. Ford/VW and premium cars e.g. AM/BMW) and it is the best car I've had both in terms of running costs, failure rates and practicality (luggage space, good for family etc). I've now 8 years old, covered ~60k miles (I don't commute in it) - still has ~85% range it had when new and has been back to Tesla perhaps 4 times total in that time. That said, I've heard a lot of horror stories from others re. Tesla ownership - thankfully, I've not seen it myself. Musk's antics have turned me off the brand a little but based on my experience, I'd buy another.

hypnoosi 3y ago

While I understand the concerns about the company's branding and leadership, owning a Tesla is actually a dream of mine =D Despite everything, Tesla owners report being incredibly satisfied with their vehicles (think I saw a survey the were happiest?). Performance, innovation, and environmental benefits... Unfortunately, buying one is not within my budget at the moment. It's a goal I'm working towards, and hopefully, by the time I can afford it, the issues you've highlighted might see some resolution =P

cjk2 3y ago
People who buy expensive things are more satisfied with them. That doesn't mean they are objectively better or that is correct. Edit: an analogy: I have a really nice expensive mechanical watch but my shit $10 Casio is objectively more useful and keeps time better. So that get used more.
nkrisc 3y ago
Because being dissatisfied with it would mean admitting to themselves that they made a very expensive mistake, and that doesn’t feel good. Many addicts are very satisfied with their drugs.
dgellow 3y ago
What innovations are you interested in?
stephenitis 3y ago
23 model y owner. Quite happy after 1 year. 0 issues Extremely happy
roeles 3y ago
Why not rent one for a week and see if you really like it that much?

jstsch 3y ago

I really enjoy my second hand 2020 Model 3 LR. Amazing car, never had any issues. If I compare it to my father's 2022 Kia EV6, it's still leagues ahead.