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The project to migrate Android to Bazel is cancelled

56 points by tripdout 2y ago

pkulak 2y ago
Wasn’t it cancelled last year?
- eviks 2y ago
  That's what the tweet says?
- znpy 2y ago
  The project to cancel it took longer than expected
drekipus 2y ago
I'm currently reading how big things get done [1] It almost seems trite when you read "... The project took longer than anticipated ... " Really good read if you want to look into project estimations and planning [1] https://www.amazon.com.au/How-Big-Things-Get-Done/dp/0593239512 https://www.amazon.com.au/How-Big-Things-Get-Done/dp/0593239...
- senkora 2y ago
  +1. I just read this on your recommendation and can also recommend it.
oakpond 2y ago
It would be interesting to read what's hard about migrating Android to Bazel.
- flohofwoe 2y ago
  It's interesting to read about the original announcements to port to Bazel, e.g.: https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/11/android-aosp-bazel/ https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/11/android-aosp-bazel/ ...it reads like one of those overly optimistic 'process optimizations' a middle manager new to the team would come up with after having a look at 'the accumulated mess'. Maybe said middle manager moved on, with the rest of the team letting out a sigh of relief and carrying on with actually being productive ;)
- IshKebab 2y ago
  In my experience migrating build systems is always way harder than you'd think because you kind of have to do it all at once, everything depends on it, and they're usually pretty hairy. Also testing them is very slow, and they're a moving target. It's also difficult to justify time spent on it because so many people are like "but it works already".
- tripdout 2y ago
  They already moved away from pure Make in Android 8, wonder if that was just more urgent or the migration to Bazel is just harder?
throughywhey 2y ago
The same project has been happening at Spotify for years now with no end in sight. It's an absolute joke.
- shaftway 2y ago
  We had a similar project at Block. Backend and iOS bit the bullet and moved to Bazel, Android development did not. Now the iOS teams are building tooling on top of Bazel and the public tools around it to have build servers, automatically remove unused dependencies, and all sorts of nifty stuff. The Android team is hacking around with Gradle, struggling just to keep the lights on and writing custom tools to work with the Gradle project structure. I wish we had gone all-in on Gradle also.
jason2323 2y ago
Bazel has been the most difficult build system to use IMO, glad they decided not to move forward with it
- tripdout 2y ago
  Harder than using Soong + Ninja + Kati together?
  - trws 2y ago
    It depends on your needs. I haven’t used that stack, but I maintain projects that have to use autotools, cmake and about a dozen different compilers together to build, 3 of them Fortran compilers. Bazel is easy if you have exactly one blessed toolchain, or very few, but if you need to build in any appreciable number of environments with different toolchains it’s an absolute nightmare. Perhaps this could be fixed, but it was literally years to get support for a compiler installed anywhere other than /usr/bin. It was just never meant to work with variable environments.
aftbit 2y ago
Will Android (or Pixel) ever migrate to Fuchsia?

56 points by tripdout 2y ago

pkulak 2y ago

Wasn’t it cancelled last year?

eviks 2y ago
That's what the tweet says?
znpy 2y ago
The project to cancel it took longer than expected

drekipus 2y ago

I'm currently reading how big things get done [1] It almost seems trite when you read "... The project took longer than anticipated ... " Really good read if you want to look into project estimations and planning [1] https://www.amazon.com.au/How-Big-Things-Get-Done/dp/0593239512 https://www.amazon.com.au/How-Big-Things-Get-Done/dp/0593239...

senkora 2y ago
+1. I just read this on your recommendation and can also recommend it.

oakpond 2y ago

It would be interesting to read what's hard about migrating Android to Bazel.

flohofwoe 2y ago
It's interesting to read about the original announcements to port to Bazel, e.g.: https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/11/android-aosp-bazel/ https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/11/android-aosp-bazel/ ...it reads like one of those overly optimistic 'process optimizations' a middle manager new to the team would come up with after having a look at 'the accumulated mess'. Maybe said middle manager moved on, with the rest of the team letting out a sigh of relief and carrying on with actually being productive ;)
IshKebab 2y ago
In my experience migrating build systems is always way harder than you'd think because you kind of have to do it all at once, everything depends on it, and they're usually pretty hairy. Also testing them is very slow, and they're a moving target. It's also difficult to justify time spent on it because so many people are like "but it works already".
tripdout 2y ago
They already moved away from pure Make in Android 8, wonder if that was just more urgent or the migration to Bazel is just harder?

throughywhey 2y ago

The same project has been happening at Spotify for years now with no end in sight. It's an absolute joke.

shaftway 2y ago
We had a similar project at Block. Backend and iOS bit the bullet and moved to Bazel, Android development did not. Now the iOS teams are building tooling on top of Bazel and the public tools around it to have build servers, automatically remove unused dependencies, and all sorts of nifty stuff. The Android team is hacking around with Gradle, struggling just to keep the lights on and writing custom tools to work with the Gradle project structure. I wish we had gone all-in on Gradle also.

jason2323 2y ago

Bazel has been the most difficult build system to use IMO, glad they decided not to move forward with it

tripdout 2y ago
Harder than using Soong + Ninja + Kati together?
- trws 2y ago
  It depends on your needs. I haven’t used that stack, but I maintain projects that have to use autotools, cmake and about a dozen different compilers together to build, 3 of them Fortran compilers. Bazel is easy if you have exactly one blessed toolchain, or very few, but if you need to build in any appreciable number of environments with different toolchains it’s an absolute nightmare. Perhaps this could be fixed, but it was literally years to get support for a compiler installed anywhere other than /usr/bin. It was just never meant to work with variable environments.

aftbit 2y ago

Will Android (or Pixel) ever migrate to Fuchsia?