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Normal car manufacturers look at things like: the door handle, physical controls, having lane indicators on their respective sides, a glove box handle, rea

Normal car manufacturers look at things like: the door handle, physical controls, having lane indicators on their respective sides, a glove box handle, rear view mirrors As solved things. Removing the door handle on Teslas is not innovative, it’s to stroke Elon’s ego. These changes aren’t innovative, they’re changes for the sake of changes.

tw04 3y ago
To be clear: removing the door handle or making one that retracts on the outside makes a ton of sense and I'm in complete support of. It significantly improves aerodynamics. Removing them from the inside: idiotic, I hated it in my old corvette which at least had an obvious physical button to push, I hate it more in Tesla's with their capacitive button that literally nobody can figure out opens the door without instructions.
- nyc_data_geek 3y ago
  Removing the one on the outside makes no sense whatsoever when it ices over and you can't open the door.
  - eddieroger 3y ago
    Normal handles can ice over, too, they're just easier to free up from ice. I'm not defending Musk here, but even a broken clock is ~right~ wrong in the same was as others twice a day.
    - nyc_data_geek 3y ago
      Yes, normal handles are easier to free up from ice, I agree.
  - BrianGragg 3y ago
    You can open the door just fine with the app that acts as your key as well.
    - nyc_data_geek 3y ago
      Exterior handles provide leverage to free up iced doors. Does the app do that?
- enragedcacti 3y ago
  The only objective claim I've seen about this was a Mercedes engineer saying flush door handles on the EQS only saves 0.0005 Cd and that their inclusion wasn't primarily an aerodynamic decision. I'd be interested to see more thorough analysis if anyone has done it. https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/ruzp4p/comment/hr3tw8p/ https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/ruzp4p/co... If you punch in reasonable numbers for the EQS here[1] (2585 kg, 2.51m^2 frontal area, 0.20 cd) you get 420 meters on top of your 522km range at 100km/h assuming perfect efficiency. 108kwh/(206.641 Wh/km) - 108kwh/(206.806 Wh/km) = 420m [1] http://www.enginuitysystems.com/EVCalculator.htm http://www.enginuitysystems.com/EVCalculator.htm
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  >It significantly improves aerodynamics Do you have any numbers to back up that claim? Is it really a significant margin that makes a measurable difference in range, or an insignificant one in the grand scheme of things that can be ofset if the driver has a bigger lunch? Because then it's just a design flex, not a engineering win. My gut feeling based on a few years working in automotive is that you're talking bull. No offence.
  - tw04 3y ago
    "Significant" was the wrong term, "measurable" was the correct one. Had I realized people were going to jump on it I would've taken more time to pick a better word. The point was: flush handles are at least partially justified, lack of interior handles are not. As for studies, yes they have been done, I do not have a subscription to pull the numbers: https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-2013 https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-2013
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      >As for studies, yes they have been done, I do not have a subscription to pull the numbers: https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-2013 https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-2013 Ok, so you have no numbers, you just pasted here the first thing that showed up on Google without even being able to read it, just to cover your ass, while a sibling comment provides numbers from Mercedes that show the gains from door handles are negligible. Boooo! If you wanna post a source, at least post one that you can at least read before using it as crutch for your argument, otherwise you're digging yourself further into your own hole.
      - tw04 3y ago
        Holy cow, take a deep breath. You’re violating multiple rules of this place with the baseless and unnecessary attacks. I have seen multiple reports of a measurable gain in efficiency. Am I willing to spend 2 hours digging up data? No, because again it was literally not the point of the comment and completely missing the point.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  Like many Tesla design decisions, it makes sense if you live in California. Elsewhere, you have to look up ways[1] to get the doorhandle unstuck when it's frozen over. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Rpns0v1LM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Rpns0v1LM
  - llamaimperative 3y ago
    Also you have to look up how to open it (regardless of where you live) if you haven’t encountered one before. Truly, truly bizarre design.
- DesiLurker 3y ago
  if removing door handles can bring about that much efficiency gain (I doubt unless you show data) then imagine removing side mirrors and replacing them by small camera bumps would bring, that i'd support. door handles thing is just Musk BS. same thing with many inside controls, thats just cost optimization. I'd go to the lengths of saying even the falcon wing doors are a poorly thought out design decision.
  - mikem69 3y ago
    Removing side mirrors is in full swing - this is why Teslas have the side repeater cameras that display on the screen whenever the turn signals are used. Audi has had the same thing for years. The holdup here are government regulations, but the minute those are changed, side mirrors are gone.
pvaldes 3y ago
Removing the door handle is the most logical decision in all the design. Try to put your hands on stainless steel. Any trace of skin oil will left a mess of fingerprints all around the place. Door handles in the cyber-truck would be like rubbing your car while covered in meringue each time that you need to use it.

tw04 3y ago

To be clear: removing the door handle or making one that retracts on the outside makes a ton of sense and I'm in complete support of. It significantly improves aerodynamics. Removing them from the inside: idiotic, I hated it in my old corvette which at least had an obvious physical button to push, I hate it more in Tesla's with their capacitive button that literally nobody can figure out opens the door without instructions.

nyc_data_geek 3y ago
Removing the one on the outside makes no sense whatsoever when it ices over and you can't open the door.
- eddieroger 3y ago
  Normal handles can ice over, too, they're just easier to free up from ice. I'm not defending Musk here, but even a broken clock is ~right~ wrong in the same was as others twice a day.
  - nyc_data_geek 3y ago
    Yes, normal handles are easier to free up from ice, I agree.
- BrianGragg 3y ago
  You can open the door just fine with the app that acts as your key as well.
  - nyc_data_geek 3y ago
    Exterior handles provide leverage to free up iced doors. Does the app do that?
enragedcacti 3y ago
The only objective claim I've seen about this was a Mercedes engineer saying flush door handles on the EQS only saves 0.0005 Cd and that their inclusion wasn't primarily an aerodynamic decision. I'd be interested to see more thorough analysis if anyone has done it. https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/ruzp4p/comment/hr3tw8p/ https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/ruzp4p/co... If you punch in reasonable numbers for the EQS here[1] (2585 kg, 2.51m^2 frontal area, 0.20 cd) you get 420 meters on top of your 522km range at 100km/h assuming perfect efficiency. 108kwh/(206.641 Wh/km) - 108kwh/(206.806 Wh/km) = 420m [1] http://www.enginuitysystems.com/EVCalculator.htm http://www.enginuitysystems.com/EVCalculator.htm
Rinzler89 3y ago
>It significantly improves aerodynamics Do you have any numbers to back up that claim? Is it really a significant margin that makes a measurable difference in range, or an insignificant one in the grand scheme of things that can be ofset if the driver has a bigger lunch? Because then it's just a design flex, not a engineering win. My gut feeling based on a few years working in automotive is that you're talking bull. No offence.
- tw04 3y ago
  "Significant" was the wrong term, "measurable" was the correct one. Had I realized people were going to jump on it I would've taken more time to pick a better word. The point was: flush handles are at least partially justified, lack of interior handles are not. As for studies, yes they have been done, I do not have a subscription to pull the numbers: https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-2013 https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-2013
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    >As for studies, yes they have been done, I do not have a subscription to pull the numbers: https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-2013 https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-2013 Ok, so you have no numbers, you just pasted here the first thing that showed up on Google without even being able to read it, just to cover your ass, while a sibling comment provides numbers from Mercedes that show the gains from door handles are negligible. Boooo! If you wanna post a source, at least post one that you can at least read before using it as crutch for your argument, otherwise you're digging yourself further into your own hole.
    - tw04 3y ago
      Holy cow, take a deep breath. You’re violating multiple rules of this place with the baseless and unnecessary attacks. I have seen multiple reports of a measurable gain in efficiency. Am I willing to spend 2 hours digging up data? No, because again it was literally not the point of the comment and completely missing the point.
AlexandrB 3y ago
Like many Tesla design decisions, it makes sense if you live in California. Elsewhere, you have to look up ways[1] to get the doorhandle unstuck when it's frozen over. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Rpns0v1LM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Rpns0v1LM
- llamaimperative 3y ago
  Also you have to look up how to open it (regardless of where you live) if you haven’t encountered one before. Truly, truly bizarre design.
DesiLurker 3y ago
if removing door handles can bring about that much efficiency gain (I doubt unless you show data) then imagine removing side mirrors and replacing them by small camera bumps would bring, that i'd support. door handles thing is just Musk BS. same thing with many inside controls, thats just cost optimization. I'd go to the lengths of saying even the falcon wing doors are a poorly thought out design decision.
- mikem69 3y ago
  Removing side mirrors is in full swing - this is why Teslas have the side repeater cameras that display on the screen whenever the turn signals are used. Audi has had the same thing for years. The holdup here are government regulations, but the minute those are changed, side mirrors are gone.

pvaldes 3y ago

Removing the door handle is the most logical decision in all the design. Try to put your hands on stainless steel. Any trace of skin oil will left a mess of fingerprints all around the place. Door handles in the cyber-truck would be like rubbing your car while covered in meringue each time that you need to use it.