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Wonder if this is the reason: https://x.com/garageklub/status/1779571445930324456 https://x.com/garageklub/status/1779571445930324456
by goodoldneon 2y ago
Wonder if this is the reason:
https://x.com/garageklub/status/1779571445930324456 https://x.com/garageklub/status/1779571445930324456
- trackofalljades 2y agoSome news outlets are reporting that as fact, yes.
- iwontberude 2y agoYour implication being its not, or you just adding nothing here?
- kubectl_h 2y agoSo this is a chintzy clip on pedal cover that serves to give an aesthetic illusion that the pedal is made of stainless steel? The Cybertruck is doomed. I'll be surprised if it still being made in 3 years.
- jprete 2y agoOne of the great tragedies of the power of modern logistics - and technology, frankly - is that it's ever-easier to disguise low-quality items behind a veneer of shiny chrome.
- M2Ys4U 2y agoDid anyone actually believe that any part of the Cybertruck was high quality? From my POV outside of the Musk cult of personality it was painfully obvious that the thing was a dud from day one.
- Nasrudith 2y agoThe promise of the truck was as is typical more 'rugged' than 'high quality'. I never considered myself part of the target market, so my reaction was more 'bold choice, lets see if this pans out' unironically.
- yifanl 2y agoThe price tag implied a high quality, but I think consumers have become aware that high price tags aren't indicative of quality.
- Tempest1981 2y agoAt this stage of EV development, the high price (hopefully) implies a lot of high-quality batteries.
- cjk2 2y agoWrapped in a rusty foil coffin with this level of engineering
- bmitc 2y agoEvery Tesla I've sat in feels like it should cost $20,000. Like a Fiat.
- cjk2 2y agoI've owned a Fiat and a Tesla. The Fiat was better put together.
- doawoo 2y agoFor the unfortunate times where I need to use a Lyft, and it also happens to be a Tesla, I am ALWAYS shocked at how cheap the whole vehicle feels. They're also some of the roughest feeling rides I've ever had, I can feel every bump on the road. (Additionally I always have to play the fun "how do I open this door from the outside again?" game. But maybe my driver was right and it's "really obvious." ...)
- cjk2 2y agoWell the surface oxides are the finest oxides of any vehicle, possibly behind Datsun.
- miohtama 2y agoSoftware is likely vastly better than with any other auto company
- andrewflnr 2y agoReally? Because as was recently brought to popular attention, the software requires the car doors to stay closed to update itself, which in my view is some real Windows 95-level engineering. Not impressed.
- mikem69 2y agoWell that’s not true- I frequently access the Tesla while it’s doing an update.
- dragonwriter 2y agoWell, greater quantity (both static and flow rate), but greater quality is less clear.
- cjk2 2y agoThe only car I've had software that worked at all in, and I've owned a Tesla, was a Citroen. And that was because it had no software worth mentioning other than a BT receiver.
- FireBeyond 2y agoI don't agree with all their UX/UI decisions, but I will grant you that Tesla has better -aesthetics- than most of the auto manufacturers. That doesn't correlate to inherent software quality, though.
- toast0 2y agoYeah, the mental state of someone who bought one had a high quality.
- smt88 2y agoCars in the US are highly scrutinized by reviewers and enthusiasts, and they're highly regulated. It's been basically impossible to disguise poor quality in cars here for a long time, so the failure of shiny chrome is the least of the Cybertruck's problems.
- nebula8804 2y agoMaybe in very recent cars but man the lack of government standards allows the absolute worst cars to be driven on the road because a lot of manufacturers (mainly American and Korean) have had on and off decades of pretty bad low quality cars. Cars that would fail inspection in Japan or Germany are perfectly fine here and as a result the overall fleet is on the crappier side.
- thfuran 2y agoI don't think most states in the us even have vehicle inspections. Certainly not all do.
- bananapub 2y ago> Cars in the US are highly scrutinized by reviewers and enthusiasts, and they're highly regulated. lol, very good
- arethuza 2y agoI can honestly say I don't think I've paid much attention to what the pedals in any car I've driven look like.
- swozey 2y agoSomeone interested in a $100k+ car potentially likes cars enough to be interested. A lot of people are A-B'ers. A lot arent.
- dragonwriter 2y ago> Someone interested in a $100k+ car potentially likes cars enough to be interested Potentially, but I think the big factor for most people who buy $100k cars is wealth and status-seeking, not interest in conponent details.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- SkyPuncher 2y agoNearly every modern car is some sort of cover over the actual pedal. This is just an extremely poor design
- formerly_proven 2y agoOn a lot of lower-cost cars the accelerator is a single piece of injection-molded plastic.
- SkyPuncher 2y agoDon't most of them still have a rubber cover on top of that injection-molded plastic?
- formerly_proven 2y agoI guess that depends on the exact trim/price level we're talking about but it's certainly not uncommon: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ywkAAOSwDqljZQzH/s-l1600.jpg https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ywkAAOSwDqljZQzH/s-l1600.jpg
- Der_Einzige 2y agoBullshit. 2017 RX 450h f sport, fully aluminum pedal, no cover. MSRP was also lower for it, even accounting for inflation, compared to the cybertruck. Downvoters need to explain why they are downvoting my post pointing out that a cheaper Lexus doesn't have this issue.
- dev_tty01 2y agoI don't think you are being downvoted for "pointing out that a cheaper Lexus doesn't have this issue." The downvote is likely for being rude about it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- SkyPuncher 2y agoWhile I didn't spell this out, luxury sports models are just about the one exception to the rule. Lexus is a luxury brand and that is a sports model. Most vehicles are not luxury or sports models so my statement is still accurate. --- EDIT: Looking up replacement parts, Toyota and Lexus uses a "stud" style pedal that's bolted into the accelerator at the floor. In this case a "cover" isn't really applicable. Many vehicle use a style similar to Ford's: https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/engine/other-engine-parts/pedal-brake-p-ml3z2455e?pdp=y https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/engine/other-engine-parts/... This is essentially a metal arm with a small cover attached to it. EDIT 2: Just grabbing a bit of ancedata to support my internal data. * GM uses a pedal with a plate in the Escalade: https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-parts/gm-accelerator-pedal-with-bracket-15821777?c=bD0xNyZuPVNlYXJjaCBSZXN1bHRzJmE9Y2FkaWxsYWMmbz1lc2NhbGFkZSZ5PTIwMjMmdD1zcG9ydCZlPTYtMmwtdjgtZ2Fz https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-parts/gm-accelerator-pedal... I also know I've had this style on many other GM vehicles I and my family have owned. * Hyundai use the arm with a cover: https://www.partshyundai.com/oem-parts/hyundai-sport-pedals-at-f2f05ak102?c=bD00Jm49RHluYW1pYyBTRU8gUGFnZQ%3D%3D https://www.partshyundai.com/oem-parts/hyundai-sport-pedals-... * BMW uses a floor based pedal with a cover: https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Interior/BMW-Pedals/Accelerator-Throttle-Pedal-Assembly-35426786282-E46-M3-330i-330Ci-325i-325C-More.html https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Interior/BMW-Pedals/Accelera... * Mercedes uses a similar floor based pedal with cover: https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Interior/BMW-Pedals/Accelerator-Throttle-Pedal-Assembly-35426786282-E46-M3-330i-330Ci-325i-325C-More.html https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Interior/BMW-Pedals/Accelera... * Chrysler uses an arm with a cover on many vehicles: https://store.mopar.com/oem-parts/mopar-pedal-kit-82211154ab https://store.mopar.com/oem-parts/mopar-pedal-kit-82211154ab * Honda uses an arm with a cover on many vehicles: https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~pedal~set~sport~m~t~08u74-t5a-100a.html https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~pedal~set~sport~... In fact, I think you might have the only manufacturer that actually doesn't use a cover. Likely in response to their pedal scandal as older Toyota models use an arm with a cover.
- Mockapapella 2y agoIt’s doomed because of the material choice of their pedals? Come on now, don’t be dramatic
- yareal 2y agoThe cars are terribly manufactured, there are many videos of them falling completely, sometimes right off the lot. They don't meet their reported towing spec, they haul about as much as a cargo bike, they can't off-road. The only reason to own one is to participate in the culture war. That sort of thing tends to cycle quickly.
- cjk2 2y agoYeah this. Total shit. I had a Model S P100D and the doors didn't even shut or line up properly. If you can't get the basics right then there's going to be a lot of problems hiding away that you can't see and serious procedural and process problems. On mine I had unintended braking randomly in the middle of the motorway. I think that's less fucked than unintended acceleration at least. Maybe not for the guy behind me. I now don't own a car. It was the most money I've lost in one go and the worst vehicle I've ever driven.
- mikem69 2y agoWas this back when they had radar? Unintended braking is/was a common issue for all manufacturers - my Prius would randomly slam on the brakes whenever I went underneath a bridge.
- cjk2 2y agoYes it was. Probably signal aliasing. I drove a dumbcar after (shitty bottom end Citroen) which exhibited no problems! :)
- jasonlotito 2y agoThat's not at all what was said. It's fair to assume that this is one additioanal issue we've seen with the Cybertruck, and when you add all those things up, you realize the Cybertruck is doomed. Why do you think this person meant that this single deficiency is the reason it's doomed? Have you thought that way in the past about things?
- tyingq 2y agoThose close up photos are pretty revealing. Not just the cover, but everything around it looks cheaply done.
- dboreham 2y agoPresumably whoever thought that accelerator pedals shouldn't be very carefully designed to avoid jamming full throttle, because no car has ever had an unintended acceleration problem, is presumably now part of the 10%.
- NovemberWhiskey 2y agoTBH that's what all parts of modern, mass-production vehicles look like if they're not expected to be user-facing.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jazzyjackson 2y agothe pedals are literally the user interface of the car tho my prius isn't made of chrome but the plastic and rubber is made to hold up to a decade of abuse i guess with self driving cars the expectation is you don't need to bother with the gas pedal as much.
- ddalex 2y agoSee, this is where the problem is. > the gas pedal Tesla is electric, so they got confused about how to build a gas pedal.
- moolcool 2y agoOh man, the cybertruck is a deeply unserious vehicle.
- numbsafari 2y agoOh, it’s serious all right. Seriously dangerous.
- KingMob 2y agoI'm going to wait for it to render in higher resolution.
- jazzyjackson 2y agoprobably has some serious margins
- piva00 2y agoOn a US$ 60-100k product it's absolutely a slap on the face, no questions, there's absolutely no reason to cheap out on a fastener for the pedal trim. Also puts in question what is actually happening on Tesla's engineering org, one just needs to have a moderate amount of reasoning power to think about the scenario "what happens in case this piece gets loose?" on a critical feature of a car, not even an engineering-related study nor a big brain, it's just a reasonable thought to have, so how could this piece pass all the engineering process review?
- diydsp 2y agoPersonally I think it should be, according to traditional (pre-y2k) values. But in a society of the spectacle, people find their meaning in relation to the larger show. Just listen to the satisfaction in the voice of the video above: He feels good because he was able to rectify the situation. He was also able to relate to a larger audience because of it. The Tesla's failure gave him meaning. Now other people will want to be like him and buy a cybertruck and find and fix issues and demonstrate them to a global audience...
- marcosdumay 2y agoI dunno. But my impression is that thing is way too expensive to buy as a hacker toy.
- Der_Einzige 2y ago"Among the many commentaries on Debord's demise, one scholar noted: "Guy Debord did not kill himself. He was murdered by the thoughtlessness and selfishness of so-called scholars (primarily trendy lit-criters) who colonized his brilliant ideas and transformed his radical politics into an academic status symbol not worth the pulp it's printed on…""
- matthewdgreen 2y agoWhat's happening in their engineering org is obvious: pressure is being applied to trim every unnecessary cost, even tiny ones, to maximize profit margin. And this pressure is clearly coming from the top. We've seen evidence of this from a number of high-profile changes that can't have escaped the notice of executive management: (1) the elimination of the radome, (2) the removal of sonar for parking, (3) the removal of turn signal and shifter stalks. What's different in this case is that now these penny-ante cost savings have reached safety-critical components.
- jonhohle 2y agoIf so, isn’t that the same issue Toyota dealt with [0] 15 years ago? Toyota’s recall didn’t include it, but we had a ‘92 Camry whose accelerator pedal would stick. Possibly a one off, but effectively the same result. 0 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%932011_Toyota_vehicle_recalls https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%932011_Toyota_veh...
- r00fus 2y agoSince Musk is a "first principles" guy, Tesla is "speedrunning" what the industry discovered years ago.
- prmph 2y agoSo has there never been an instance where sudden unintended acceleration was proven to be from an electrical/electronic system malfunction? Reading the title, I thought that at long last electrical SUA had been demonstrated.
- nwpierce 2y agoI don't recall reading such, but I can tell you from experience that there was absolutely some sort of physical sensor, electrical, or software problem. I was sitting stopped at a red light with my foot square on the brake when the engine on our 2009 Corolla started revving hard. The brake held, and I was able to pop it into neutral and safely turn the car off and on again. Then it was fine. It did it to me at least one more time in a similar situation. I am very glad not to have been driving in traffic when it happened. The trouble went away after some of the recall work was done, but we never fully trusted that vehicle again. For what it's worth, we still drive a pair of Toyotas.
- prmph 2y agoYeah, I remember one day just after I got home in my manual VW rabbit, with the the engine still running, the gear in neutral, and my foot on the brake, suddenly the engine revved hard by itself. I put off the engine, and it has never occurred again as far as I can tell, but no one can convince me that that was not a case of unexplained acceleration due to some internal bug.
- tivert 2y ago> Wonder if this is the reason: https://x.com/garageklub/status/1779571445930324456 https://x.com/garageklub/status/1779571445930324456 What's the big deal? They could just fix a problem like that with software. Just patch in an emergency acceleration shutdown button in a sub-menu on the touchscreen (e.g. hit truck, "Controls", select a new "disable jammed accelerator", click confirm).
- amluto 2y agoI assume you’re joking :) For what it’s worth, at least some Tesla models turn off acceleration when the brake is pressed more than a little bit.
- lm28469 2y agoTesla fans should go to the Olympics and compete in mental gymnastics
- dang 2y agoOk, but please don't post flamebait or snark HN. We've had orders of magnitude too many of these, and this is one of the most tedious topics. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- jplrssn 2y agoI've never driven an EV but I'm curious about this statement. When would continuing to accelerate ever be the desired behaviour when pressing both pedals at the same time?
- aftbit 2y agoI don't think it would be. I read parent post as "when pressed enough to trigger the switch, the brake pedal has priority and disables acceleration." There may be a tiny amount of pressure that you can put on the brake pedal before it detects the press.
- 2y ago
- loceng 2y agoThankfully the break overrides the acceleration, and I imagine a driver's eventual instinct will be to hit the break - and once they notice the vehicle decelerating they can stop panicking.
- nvy 2y agoDoes it override the accelerator? Do you trust Space Karen enough to make that assumption? Tesla vehicles have a lot of software onboard, and they build it like a regular SV tech company. That is frightening to me.
- Tempest1981 2y agoI've driven several cars that cut the throttle if you brake hard. Especially easy with drive-by-wire. (Haven't tried it on a new Tesla)
- nvy 2y ago>I've driven several cars that cut the throttle if you brake hard. Me too. I don't trust Tesla to get that right.
- AlexandrB 2y agoThe TikTok video[1] that originally showed off this issue noted that he was able to stop because the brake overrode the accelerator. He was then able to set the truck to "Park" using the touchscreen while he figured out what happened. [1] https://jalopnik.com/tesla-cybertruck-hit-with-stop-sale-because-of-unintend-1851409651 https://jalopnik.com/tesla-cybertruck-hit-with-stop-sale-bec...
- gonzo41 2y agoThat is insane. especially in a car where you can't really just rip on the ebrake or throw the engine into neutral with a gear stick. It's terrifying to think these massive trucks are all around kids and families.
- jccooper 2y agoYou don't need to do any of that. You just hit the brake, which overrides acceleration. For this particular problem, drive-by-wire is superior to those mechanical controls.
- jazzyjackson 2y agothe mechanical override would be to shift into neutral my gripe with touchscreens is they're no good in an emergency, you want an interface that reacts well to being grabbed :) does the cybertruck even have a proper "off" button or does it just read your mind to anticipate when you want to put it in standby mode? :p
- buffington 2y agoAssuming the controls are the same as the Model 3, you can use the lever on the steering column to shift into neutral. It's not a mechanical solution, but it is doable without using the touchscreen. Edit: just out of curiosity I went to look at photos of the Cybertruck interior. No levers on the steering column. WTF. That alone would be a deal breaker for me.
- jazzyjackson 2y agoholy shit I thought I was kidding but this thing doesn't have an off button, from pg 72 in the owners manual (note that shifting into park is also a touchscreen button that displays when stopped)[0]: When you finish driving and shift into Park, simply exit the vehicle. When you leave Cybertruck with your phone key, it powers off automatically, turning off the touchscreen. Cybertruck also powers off automatically after being in Park for 30 minutes, even if you are sitting in the driver's seat. Although usually not needed, you can power off Cybertruck while sitting in the driver's seat, provided the vehicle is not moving. Touch Controls > Safety > Power Off. Cybertruck automatically powers back on after a short period if you press the brake pedal or touch the touchscreen. [0] https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/cybertruck/en_us/Owners_Manual.pdf https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/cybertruck/en_us/Owners_M...