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Traffic in the US is so absurdly deadly. You have one of these posts and people come out of the woodworks everywhere saying they also have a friend that died in

by Aeolun 3y ago

Traffic in the US is so absurdly deadly. You have one of these posts and people come out of the woodworks everywhere saying they also have a friend that died in a traffic accident. I have zero. I cannot even think of a far off acquaintance ever killed in traffic. Why is traffic such a deadly thing in the US compared to the rest of the world?

tlunter 3y ago
I am an American and also don’t have anyone I know, nor far off acquaintance killed, therefore I conclude the US is actually fine with it comes to traffic. Why are you using an anecdote to define your data here?
- bufordtwain 3y ago
  You've been lucky. My sister in law and my wife's best friend were both killed in car accidents (not as pedestrians) in the US.
tylerflick 3y ago
Because we like to blame scary things like guns, rather than confronting the fact that giant SUVs and distracted driving habits are far more dangerous.
- stefan_ 3y ago
  Even better, people die at elevated rates from both of these! It is not either or.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Well, approx. 45k people a year die from traffic crashes in the US a year. [https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F918 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F918] And 48k from firearms (including suicides and accidents) [https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F919 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F919] COVID-19 is also estimated to have killed 48k in 2023. Both combined are still less than from drug overdoses though. [https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F367 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F367] Check the top causes, and you’ll find heart disease still at the top at 680k/yr, and all of these causes listed above as essentially in the noise. [https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D176;jsessionid=0CDEAB6BE0F82E7F8801C6E59836 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D176;jsessioni...]
    - lolc 3y ago
      When you run the numbers in terms of years lost, the traffic and firearm deaths will come out with a bigger share.
      - lazide 3y ago
        Cite?
bobthepanda 3y ago
* everything is far apart, intentionally. US cities used to be denser before the car, but in the postwar era not only were there significant amounts of new areas of car-oriented low density, but a lot of the existing dense areas were destroyed, and now in most of the country building traditional density is illegal. * because everything is far apart and designed for car usage, public transit, walking and cycling are inversely very bad. this simultaneously makes doing any of that dangerous; and it also puts a lot of people on the roads who probably shouldn't be (drunk drivers, distracted drivers, people with failing vision, etc.) * in some of the worst affected areas, the transport department has applied road standards meant for interstate highways to local roads with traffic lights and no center barriers, and so these roads in particular are quite dangerous and full of rampant speeding * Americans have tended towards larger cars, and unlike Europe there is no testing in the US for how safe automobiles are for pedestrian impact, so the cars themselves are actually more deadly to pedestrians
jeffbee 3y ago
[flagged]
tzs 3y ago
Most people use traffic deaths per 100k inhabitants when comparing, but that exaggerates the risks of US traffic because people in the US drive more. For example the US has around 12.9 traffic related deaths per year per 100k inhabitants, and France has around 5. That's a ratio of 2.58:1. But people in the US drive an average of around 23000 km/year. French people average around 13000 km/year. That's a ratio of 1.77:1. That means that per kilometer driving in the US has about 1.46x the chance of resulting in a traffic related death as driving in France, which is much lower than the 2.58x that most people here would use when comparing. In terms of absolute risk, which is probably what most people consider when deciding if their car is safe enough, the US has around 1 car related fatality per 130 million vehicle kilometers. For France it is around 1 car related fatality per 190 million vehicle kilometers. Both of those are low enough that most people probably consider them negligible.
- anal_reactor 3y ago
  > Most people use traffic deaths per 100k inhabitants when comparing, but that exaggerates the risks of US traffic because people in the US drive more. They drive because they have to, not because they want to, so it's a sensible comparison.

by Aeolun 3y ago

tlunter 3y ago

I am an American and also don’t have anyone I know, nor far off acquaintance killed, therefore I conclude the US is actually fine with it comes to traffic. Why are you using an anecdote to define your data here?

bufordtwain 3y ago
You've been lucky. My sister in law and my wife's best friend were both killed in car accidents (not as pedestrians) in the US.

tylerflick 3y ago

Because we like to blame scary things like guns, rather than confronting the fact that giant SUVs and distracted driving habits are far more dangerous.

stefan_ 3y ago
Even better, people die at elevated rates from both of these! It is not either or.
- lazide 3y ago
  Well, approx. 45k people a year die from traffic crashes in the US a year. [https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F918 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F918] And 48k from firearms (including suicides and accidents) [https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F919 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F919] COVID-19 is also estimated to have killed 48k in 2023. Both combined are still less than from drug overdoses though. [https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F367 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D158/D362F367] Check the top causes, and you’ll find heart disease still at the top at 680k/yr, and all of these causes listed above as essentially in the noise. [https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D176;jsessionid=0CDEAB6BE0F82E7F8801C6E59836 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D176;jsessioni...]
  - lolc 3y ago
    When you run the numbers in terms of years lost, the traffic and firearm deaths will come out with a bigger share.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Cite?

bobthepanda 3y ago

* everything is far apart, intentionally. US cities used to be denser before the car, but in the postwar era not only were there significant amounts of new areas of car-oriented low density, but a lot of the existing dense areas were destroyed, and now in most of the country building traditional density is illegal. * because everything is far apart and designed for car usage, public transit, walking and cycling are inversely very bad. this simultaneously makes doing any of that dangerous; and it also puts a lot of people on the roads who probably shouldn't be (drunk drivers, distracted drivers, people with failing vision, etc.) * in some of the worst affected areas, the transport department has applied road standards meant for interstate highways to local roads with traffic lights and no center barriers, and so these roads in particular are quite dangerous and full of rampant speeding * Americans have tended towards larger cars, and unlike Europe there is no testing in the US for how safe automobiles are for pedestrian impact, so the cars themselves are actually more deadly to pedestrians

jeffbee 3y ago

[flagged]

tzs 3y ago

Most people use traffic deaths per 100k inhabitants when comparing, but that exaggerates the risks of US traffic because people in the US drive more. For example the US has around 12.9 traffic related deaths per year per 100k inhabitants, and France has around 5. That's a ratio of 2.58:1. But people in the US drive an average of around 23000 km/year. French people average around 13000 km/year. That's a ratio of 1.77:1. That means that per kilometer driving in the US has about 1.46x the chance of resulting in a traffic related death as driving in France, which is much lower than the 2.58x that most people here would use when comparing. In terms of absolute risk, which is probably what most people consider when deciding if their car is safe enough, the US has around 1 car related fatality per 130 million vehicle kilometers. For France it is around 1 car related fatality per 190 million vehicle kilometers. Both of those are low enough that most people probably consider them negligible.

anal_reactor 3y ago
> Most people use traffic deaths per 100k inhabitants when comparing, but that exaggerates the risks of US traffic because people in the US drive more. They drive because they have to, not because they want to, so it's a sensible comparison.