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Like everyone is saying, Dan comes across really well in this. I don't expect JG will ever give us his take. RE: never listening to any 5by5 podcasts–I listene

Like everyone is saying, Dan comes across really well in this. I don't expect JG will ever give us his take. RE: never listening to any 5by5 podcasts–I listened to The Talk Show a few times. Maybe it's because I'm used to the dogma of professional broadcasting, but I don't think you've missed out unless you like hearing a couple of guys pause a hell of a lot during an awkward conversation. Almost every episode I heard started with an entirely charmless "Uh, hello?" "Uh is this on?" scenario. I guess part of the appeal was that it was folksy and just a conversation.

pwthornton 14y ago
I think a big part of the appeal of podcasts is that they don't seem like overproduced, substance-less radio. Gruber has some genuinely good insights, particularly about Apple. I also appreciate that this wasn't some overproduced show with sound effects everywhere.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- georgespencer 14y ago
  I'm not saying it should be hosted by the tech equivalent of early morning DJs, but I don't think from what I heard they went into enough depth planning the show. Basically it was Dan Benjamin dragging Gruber over topics until Gruber gets to a point he wants to make, and then Gruber speaks coherently and intelligently for a few minutes, and then there's an awkward pause again and it's back to him being gruff and standoffish and Dan chiming in with what he thinks. There was so much dead air that I found it really actively hard to listen to. There's no natural flow to the conversation for my ears to acclimate to–a natural groove to fall into when you listen–you cannot passively consume it. You have to be actively listening all the time. Which is a shame because Hivelogic was one of my favourite weblogs back in the day, and I actually admire Gruber.
- chucknelson 14y ago
  I agree. I recently listened to Macbreak Weekly because Gruber was a guest on it, but it was so traditional and produced that I actually didn't like the format. I prefer 5by5 podcasts, especially Hypercritical (as others have mentioned).
Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
I like all the people on the 5by5 podcasts but this is exactly why I don't listen to them. I wish instead of doing 1 hour 15, they'd do 15 minutes planning, 15 minutes editing and a 45 minute show. There's plenty of good material there, I just feel it gets drowned out.
- zdw 14y ago
  Editing audio or video generally takes a multiple of the original running time, not 15 minutes at the end. A 1 hour minimally edited podcast could easily take several hours to edit and review properly.
  - Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
    I don't think it needs doing properly. Seriously, listen to one, if you don't think it could be improved with 15 minutes trimming then I'd be amazed.
    - oblique63 14y ago
      I don't know about that. Just to even get an idea of what you want to edit, you need at least the amount of time it takes for you to review your raw material, which in this case could be over 2 hours sometimes... (I work with a lot of audio, though no podcasts, so I may still be underestimating a bit)
      - revolvingcur 14y ago
        I think you and your GP are right on. I edited a short-lived podcast and regularly spent 1.5 hours producing and editing each 25 minute show. Even if you're using good equipment and have a solid connection, producing a tight podcast necessarily takes more effort than is obvious to the listener. That's kind of the point.
        chmars 14y ago
        Final reasons might be another point why podcasts without much preparation and only the necessary minimum of post-production are common. I don't know the economics of podcast networks but a post-production infrastructure similar to traditional media would probably be go beyond the financial scope.
jcurbo 14y ago
The Talk Show has always been unstructured in my experience. If you listen to some of the other 5by5 podcasts they are much more professionally done - intros/outros, some focus, and sections in some cases. I think Dan is very aware of traditional 'radio' methodology and knows that you do that stuff to guide listeners and give them context. The Talk Show didn't really need that... it was just him and Gruber BS'ing about whatever Apple/tech news was popular that week. Which is fine, because Gruber has some interesting insights on Apple. Personally, I get that kind of content from the Web already and much prefer deeper analysis of issues. I am a huge fan of Hypercritical because of this, John Siracusa can take a topic and pick it completely apart - and I enjoy picking things apart in parallel while listening. My Talk Show listening was waning in favor of this type of podcast anyway.
- technoslut 14y ago
  The Talk Show was unstructured because of Gruber. As a host you have to work with what you have. The Talk Show is the only deviation from what Benjamin does. Listening to Gruber on his recent podcast explains the reason why.
aiscott 14y ago
I tried to listen to one once. Just to see what it was about... It started out with Gruber cursing because Dan wasn't on yet or some reason. I gave it a few more minutes; it was like listening in on somebody's private conversation. I didn't get the allure of it at all and killed it. I don't have the time to internet people chit-chat. I can't do it and work at the same time because I find it distracting. If it was somehow really great and I wanted to listen to it, the best I could offer would be downloading and playing it in the car on a long trip. Just ain't gonna happen. Do things happen in the podcast that don't make it into a blog post somewhere?
sebii 14y ago
You have to listen to The Critical Path, Horace Dediu talks just the information, and nothing else, these information are mostly eye-opening. Some are interviews with bad quality and not that interesting, but most of the others are crown jewels.
- mvkel 14y ago
  Horace's "interviews" are him asking 45 minute questions and interrupting the respondent's answer.
- mvkel 14y ago
  Horace's "interviews" are him asking 45 minute questions and interrupting the respondent's answer.
MrFoof 14y ago
>Almost every episode I heard started with an entirely charmless "Uh, hello?" "Uh is this on?" scenario. I guess part of the appeal was that it was folksy and just a conversation. This is called a warm start, though in the case of the Talk Show, it often started off awkwardly instead of seemingly mid-conversation. If you listen to the old Stack Overflow podcasts (Spolsky and Atwood, before the "new format), they also did a warm start, but often it was extremely well-executed.
- smackfu 14y ago
  Oh that's a real thing? It always makes me think they screwed up the recording.

pwthornton 14y ago

I think a big part of the appeal of podcasts is that they don't seem like overproduced, substance-less radio. Gruber has some genuinely good insights, particularly about Apple. I also appreciate that this wasn't some overproduced show with sound effects everywhere.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
georgespencer 14y ago
I'm not saying it should be hosted by the tech equivalent of early morning DJs, but I don't think from what I heard they went into enough depth planning the show. Basically it was Dan Benjamin dragging Gruber over topics until Gruber gets to a point he wants to make, and then Gruber speaks coherently and intelligently for a few minutes, and then there's an awkward pause again and it's back to him being gruff and standoffish and Dan chiming in with what he thinks. There was so much dead air that I found it really actively hard to listen to. There's no natural flow to the conversation for my ears to acclimate to–a natural groove to fall into when you listen–you cannot passively consume it. You have to be actively listening all the time. Which is a shame because Hivelogic was one of my favourite weblogs back in the day, and I actually admire Gruber.
chucknelson 14y ago
I agree. I recently listened to Macbreak Weekly because Gruber was a guest on it, but it was so traditional and produced that I actually didn't like the format. I prefer 5by5 podcasts, especially Hypercritical (as others have mentioned).

Tyrannosaurs 14y ago

I like all the people on the 5by5 podcasts but this is exactly why I don't listen to them. I wish instead of doing 1 hour 15, they'd do 15 minutes planning, 15 minutes editing and a 45 minute show. There's plenty of good material there, I just feel it gets drowned out.

zdw 14y ago
Editing audio or video generally takes a multiple of the original running time, not 15 minutes at the end. A 1 hour minimally edited podcast could easily take several hours to edit and review properly.
- Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
  I don't think it needs doing properly. Seriously, listen to one, if you don't think it could be improved with 15 minutes trimming then I'd be amazed.
  - oblique63 14y ago
    I don't know about that. Just to even get an idea of what you want to edit, you need at least the amount of time it takes for you to review your raw material, which in this case could be over 2 hours sometimes... (I work with a lot of audio, though no podcasts, so I may still be underestimating a bit)
    - revolvingcur 14y ago
      I think you and your GP are right on. I edited a short-lived podcast and regularly spent 1.5 hours producing and editing each 25 minute show. Even if you're using good equipment and have a solid connection, producing a tight podcast necessarily takes more effort than is obvious to the listener. That's kind of the point.
      - chmars 14y ago
        Final reasons might be another point why podcasts without much preparation and only the necessary minimum of post-production are common. I don't know the economics of podcast networks but a post-production infrastructure similar to traditional media would probably be go beyond the financial scope.

jcurbo 14y ago

The Talk Show has always been unstructured in my experience. If you listen to some of the other 5by5 podcasts they are much more professionally done - intros/outros, some focus, and sections in some cases. I think Dan is very aware of traditional 'radio' methodology and knows that you do that stuff to guide listeners and give them context. The Talk Show didn't really need that... it was just him and Gruber BS'ing about whatever Apple/tech news was popular that week. Which is fine, because Gruber has some interesting insights on Apple. Personally, I get that kind of content from the Web already and much prefer deeper analysis of issues. I am a huge fan of Hypercritical because of this, John Siracusa can take a topic and pick it completely apart - and I enjoy picking things apart in parallel while listening. My Talk Show listening was waning in favor of this type of podcast anyway.

technoslut 14y ago
The Talk Show was unstructured because of Gruber. As a host you have to work with what you have. The Talk Show is the only deviation from what Benjamin does. Listening to Gruber on his recent podcast explains the reason why.

aiscott 14y ago

I tried to listen to one once. Just to see what it was about... It started out with Gruber cursing because Dan wasn't on yet or some reason. I gave it a few more minutes; it was like listening in on somebody's private conversation. I didn't get the allure of it at all and killed it. I don't have the time to internet people chit-chat. I can't do it and work at the same time because I find it distracting. If it was somehow really great and I wanted to listen to it, the best I could offer would be downloading and playing it in the car on a long trip. Just ain't gonna happen. Do things happen in the podcast that don't make it into a blog post somewhere?

sebii 14y ago

You have to listen to The Critical Path, Horace Dediu talks just the information, and nothing else, these information are mostly eye-opening. Some are interviews with bad quality and not that interesting, but most of the others are crown jewels.

mvkel 14y ago
Horace's "interviews" are him asking 45 minute questions and interrupting the respondent's answer.
mvkel 14y ago
Horace's "interviews" are him asking 45 minute questions and interrupting the respondent's answer.

MrFoof 14y ago

>Almost every episode I heard started with an entirely charmless "Uh, hello?" "Uh is this on?" scenario. I guess part of the appeal was that it was folksy and just a conversation. This is called a warm start, though in the case of the Talk Show, it often started off awkwardly instead of seemingly mid-conversation. If you listen to the old Stack Overflow podcasts (Spolsky and Atwood, before the "new format), they also did a warm start, but often it was extremely well-executed.

smackfu 14y ago
Oh that's a real thing? It always makes me think they screwed up the recording.