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Summary for anyone who can't listen: * Dan says John emailed him and just said it was time to move on and try something new. Dan says he has total respect and

Summary for anyone who can't listen: * Dan says John emailed him and just said it was time to move on and try something new. Dan says he has total respect and understanding for that. * Dan says he thought if they weren't doing the show anymore, they would retire it together. Surprised and disappointed that John's doing the show on his own and re-using the name. * Dan wishes they could have done one last episode to reminisce (120 previous episodes) and to thank the fans. * Dan encourages fans to listen to the new show at muleradio.net. * No other sordid details, just some personal anecdotes. I've never listened to any 5by5 podcasts on 5by5, but Dan Benjamin comes across in this audio clip as a total class act.

pwthornton 14y ago
Dan has always come across as one of the classiest guys on the Internet. I am genuinely sad to see this happen to him.
- woe 14y ago
  ... and John has always come across as one of the Internet's premier jackasses. (I'm tempted to add "I am genuinely sad to see this happen to him" but that would overstate how much I care for the sake of a cheap chuckle.)
georgespencer 14y ago
Like everyone is saying, Dan comes across really well in this. I don't expect JG will ever give us his take. RE: never listening to any 5by5 podcasts–I listened to The Talk Show a few times. Maybe it's because I'm used to the dogma of professional broadcasting, but I don't think you've missed out unless you like hearing a couple of guys pause a hell of a lot during an awkward conversation. Almost every episode I heard started with an entirely charmless "Uh, hello?" "Uh is this on?" scenario. I guess part of the appeal was that it was folksy and just a conversation.
- pwthornton 14y ago
  I think a big part of the appeal of podcasts is that they don't seem like overproduced, substance-less radio. Gruber has some genuinely good insights, particularly about Apple. I also appreciate that this wasn't some overproduced show with sound effects everywhere.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - georgespencer 14y ago
    I'm not saying it should be hosted by the tech equivalent of early morning DJs, but I don't think from what I heard they went into enough depth planning the show. Basically it was Dan Benjamin dragging Gruber over topics until Gruber gets to a point he wants to make, and then Gruber speaks coherently and intelligently for a few minutes, and then there's an awkward pause again and it's back to him being gruff and standoffish and Dan chiming in with what he thinks. There was so much dead air that I found it really actively hard to listen to. There's no natural flow to the conversation for my ears to acclimate to–a natural groove to fall into when you listen–you cannot passively consume it. You have to be actively listening all the time. Which is a shame because Hivelogic was one of my favourite weblogs back in the day, and I actually admire Gruber.
  - chucknelson 14y ago
    I agree. I recently listened to Macbreak Weekly because Gruber was a guest on it, but it was so traditional and produced that I actually didn't like the format. I prefer 5by5 podcasts, especially Hypercritical (as others have mentioned).
- Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
  I like all the people on the 5by5 podcasts but this is exactly why I don't listen to them. I wish instead of doing 1 hour 15, they'd do 15 minutes planning, 15 minutes editing and a 45 minute show. There's plenty of good material there, I just feel it gets drowned out.
glhaynes 14y ago
John == Gruber or Siracusa?
- Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
  Gruber - this is about the Talk Show.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
anon808 14y ago
"Dan Benjamin comes across in this audio clip as a total class act." He definitely comes across as that, but I'm not sure he is. My gut tells me there was more meaning behind this that none of us are owed, creating public content from it maybe not be the right move; it shows bigger class not to talk about it.
- JeanMertz 14y ago
  Dan is "on the air" several hours a week. He also has several high profile co-hosts on the air 1+ hour a week. He is also pretty active on Twitter. Plus he has million(s) of fans/listeners of his shows. How on earth could he let this go without mentioning it in any way? He couldn't have possibly instructed all his co-hosts not to talk about this situation. Him being a radio man through the bones (as he recently again explained on his interview with Jeffrey Zeldman) I think he handled this the best way he can. Plus, he knows Gruber has an ever bigger following, so he obviously has every reason to tell the truth, or at least tell something Gruber can live with. All in all a good short explanation, now we can "move on" and enjoy the other 5by5 shows (tried the new Talk Show, didn't like it at all, but maybe it'll improve).
  - chipotle_coyote 14y ago
    While I appear to be in a minority, I thought the first episode of the Mule Radio version of TTS was better than the 5by5 version usually was. Yes, it was still rambling, but Gruber was engaged and animated, and that gave the show energy that hasn't been there for a while. The 5by5 version increasingly came across like "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Phone It In." I really do like 5by5 in general and at least four of their shows are in my standard rotation -- like everyone else commenting seems to be saying, "Hypercritical" is great, with "Back to Work" a close second. "The Ihnatko Almanac" is a fine not-tech show. I like "Build & Analyze" too, although I'm worried it may exceed my quota for parenting-related subjects. (As a childless middle-aged man, it's just so not in my bailiwick.)
erifneerg 14y ago
I didn't hear him encouraging Mule Radio or any mention of mule. He just says Gruber started the show on his own.
- evan_ 14y ago
  Then you missed it- starting at 4:17 he says "I do really want to wish John all the best with anything he does, including his new show, and I encourage you to give it a try too. You can check it out at its new home on muleradio.net."
  - erifneerg 14y ago
    ah, yea totally missed that. thanks.
Hari_Seldon 14y ago
He doesn't mention an email, he says "John expressed to me" which could also mean a telephone call or a meet up. Just saying

pwthornton 14y ago

Dan has always come across as one of the classiest guys on the Internet. I am genuinely sad to see this happen to him.

woe 14y ago
... and John has always come across as one of the Internet's premier jackasses. (I'm tempted to add "I am genuinely sad to see this happen to him" but that would overstate how much I care for the sake of a cheap chuckle.)

georgespencer 14y ago

Like everyone is saying, Dan comes across really well in this. I don't expect JG will ever give us his take. RE: never listening to any 5by5 podcasts–I listened to The Talk Show a few times. Maybe it's because I'm used to the dogma of professional broadcasting, but I don't think you've missed out unless you like hearing a couple of guys pause a hell of a lot during an awkward conversation. Almost every episode I heard started with an entirely charmless "Uh, hello?" "Uh is this on?" scenario. I guess part of the appeal was that it was folksy and just a conversation.

pwthornton 14y ago
I think a big part of the appeal of podcasts is that they don't seem like overproduced, substance-less radio. Gruber has some genuinely good insights, particularly about Apple. I also appreciate that this wasn't some overproduced show with sound effects everywhere.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- georgespencer 14y ago
  I'm not saying it should be hosted by the tech equivalent of early morning DJs, but I don't think from what I heard they went into enough depth planning the show. Basically it was Dan Benjamin dragging Gruber over topics until Gruber gets to a point he wants to make, and then Gruber speaks coherently and intelligently for a few minutes, and then there's an awkward pause again and it's back to him being gruff and standoffish and Dan chiming in with what he thinks. There was so much dead air that I found it really actively hard to listen to. There's no natural flow to the conversation for my ears to acclimate to–a natural groove to fall into when you listen–you cannot passively consume it. You have to be actively listening all the time. Which is a shame because Hivelogic was one of my favourite weblogs back in the day, and I actually admire Gruber.
- chucknelson 14y ago
  I agree. I recently listened to Macbreak Weekly because Gruber was a guest on it, but it was so traditional and produced that I actually didn't like the format. I prefer 5by5 podcasts, especially Hypercritical (as others have mentioned).
Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
I like all the people on the 5by5 podcasts but this is exactly why I don't listen to them. I wish instead of doing 1 hour 15, they'd do 15 minutes planning, 15 minutes editing and a 45 minute show. There's plenty of good material there, I just feel it gets drowned out.

glhaynes 14y ago

John == Gruber or Siracusa?

Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
Gruber - this is about the Talk Show.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

anon808 14y ago

"Dan Benjamin comes across in this audio clip as a total class act." He definitely comes across as that, but I'm not sure he is. My gut tells me there was more meaning behind this that none of us are owed, creating public content from it maybe not be the right move; it shows bigger class not to talk about it.

JeanMertz 14y ago
Dan is "on the air" several hours a week. He also has several high profile co-hosts on the air 1+ hour a week. He is also pretty active on Twitter. Plus he has million(s) of fans/listeners of his shows. How on earth could he let this go without mentioning it in any way? He couldn't have possibly instructed all his co-hosts not to talk about this situation. Him being a radio man through the bones (as he recently again explained on his interview with Jeffrey Zeldman) I think he handled this the best way he can. Plus, he knows Gruber has an ever bigger following, so he obviously has every reason to tell the truth, or at least tell something Gruber can live with. All in all a good short explanation, now we can "move on" and enjoy the other 5by5 shows (tried the new Talk Show, didn't like it at all, but maybe it'll improve).
- chipotle_coyote 14y ago
  While I appear to be in a minority, I thought the first episode of the Mule Radio version of TTS was better than the 5by5 version usually was. Yes, it was still rambling, but Gruber was engaged and animated, and that gave the show energy that hasn't been there for a while. The 5by5 version increasingly came across like "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Phone It In." I really do like 5by5 in general and at least four of their shows are in my standard rotation -- like everyone else commenting seems to be saying, "Hypercritical" is great, with "Back to Work" a close second. "The Ihnatko Almanac" is a fine not-tech show. I like "Build & Analyze" too, although I'm worried it may exceed my quota for parenting-related subjects. (As a childless middle-aged man, it's just so not in my bailiwick.)

erifneerg 14y ago

I didn't hear him encouraging Mule Radio or any mention of mule. He just says Gruber started the show on his own.

evan_ 14y ago
Then you missed it- starting at 4:17 he says "I do really want to wish John all the best with anything he does, including his new show, and I encourage you to give it a try too. You can check it out at its new home on muleradio.net."
- erifneerg 14y ago
  ah, yea totally missed that. thanks.

Hari_Seldon 14y ago

He doesn't mention an email, he says "John expressed to me" which could also mean a telephone call or a meet up. Just saying