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It's not a value-add given it causes chain-reaction crashes from phantom braking and quite regularly slams into the back of emergency vehicles on the side of th

It's not a value-add given it causes chain-reaction crashes from phantom braking and quite regularly slams into the back of emergency vehicles on the side of the road (likely because the cameras are blinded by the emergency lights.) Teslas had radar assist. It was too expensive for Musk. And to keep new car owners from being annoyed by older Telsas having more features than theirs, he ordered that the older Teslas have their radar units be disabled.

machdiamonds 3y ago
Do you actually have any examples of FSD v12 hitting emergency vehicles?
hokumguru 3y ago
Anecdotal I know, but I bought a model Y last year without radar. We’ve used FSD substantially and haven’t seen phantom braking issues even once. I think it’s been mostly resolved.
- dmix 3y ago
  I've never driven one but I follow a youtube channel that documents beta FSD, posting raw video feeds and analyzing/critiquing them, and I've noticed they've been gushing about it more and more this past year. Far more than in the past he's always talking about how its mastered very complex stuff it would have disengaged or awkwardly completed only half a year earlier. I think the platform has improved quite a bit in recent years. Of course opinions on the internet will have been established from headlines in prior years so who knows how much impact it will have on discourse if it turns out to be the case.
  - hexane360 3y ago
    On the other hand, I saw this just this morning: https://x.com/RealDanODowd/status/1778224756220940585 https://x.com/RealDanODowd/status/1778224756220940585
InTheArena 3y ago
Actually, it appears that getting rid of "sensor fusion" has resulted in almost all of the phantom braking issues. My car still has radar assist, and only uses visual models now. And in that time, Phantom breaking has become a thing of the past. The hitting a emergency vehicle thing - which is incredibly common as a kind of car crash - see why police always set their wheels to face into traffic when they do a traffic stop - doesn't seem to be occurring. (Just in case you wanted some actual data)
- MBCook 3y ago
  I’ve owned 2 cars with radar. I’ve been in at least 2 others owned by family with radar. None Teslas. None had phantom braking. Tesla may have solved their issue (no 1st hand experience) but having radar shouldn’t have caused it if implemented properly. It’s clearly possible, seeming every other brand has managed.
  - InTheArena 3y ago
    Really? I saw phantom breaking all the time from both Toyota and Hondas. Typically on a slope, with something like rail crossings where the signals got a little squirrely. having the same glitch across multiple vendors with different implementation makes me think it's more a basic physics problem. Regardless, the Tesla vision system - love it or hate it, is doing far far more safety systems then radar only based systems.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      In the 6 years I had it I got a handful of false warnings from my Honda, but never a false brake activation. In the three years I’ve had my Mach E has had fewer false alerts than the Honda. The one exception is it has a reverse brake assist the Honda didn’t, designed to stop you from hitting things when backing up. One friend’s driveway is so steep where it joins the street that if you’re not going very slow it will trigger the reverse brake assist. That was a surprise the first time.
      - 3y ago
kwhitefoot 3y ago
> Teslas have their radar units be disabled. That's simply untrue. My 2015 Model S still uses the radar.

machdiamonds 3y ago

Do you actually have any examples of FSD v12 hitting emergency vehicles?

hokumguru 3y ago

Anecdotal I know, but I bought a model Y last year without radar. We’ve used FSD substantially and haven’t seen phantom braking issues even once. I think it’s been mostly resolved.

dmix 3y ago
I've never driven one but I follow a youtube channel that documents beta FSD, posting raw video feeds and analyzing/critiquing them, and I've noticed they've been gushing about it more and more this past year. Far more than in the past he's always talking about how its mastered very complex stuff it would have disengaged or awkwardly completed only half a year earlier. I think the platform has improved quite a bit in recent years. Of course opinions on the internet will have been established from headlines in prior years so who knows how much impact it will have on discourse if it turns out to be the case.
- hexane360 3y ago
  On the other hand, I saw this just this morning: https://x.com/RealDanODowd/status/1778224756220940585 https://x.com/RealDanODowd/status/1778224756220940585

InTheArena 3y ago

Actually, it appears that getting rid of "sensor fusion" has resulted in almost all of the phantom braking issues. My car still has radar assist, and only uses visual models now. And in that time, Phantom breaking has become a thing of the past. The hitting a emergency vehicle thing - which is incredibly common as a kind of car crash - see why police always set their wheels to face into traffic when they do a traffic stop - doesn't seem to be occurring. (Just in case you wanted some actual data)

MBCook 3y ago
I’ve owned 2 cars with radar. I’ve been in at least 2 others owned by family with radar. None Teslas. None had phantom braking. Tesla may have solved their issue (no 1st hand experience) but having radar shouldn’t have caused it if implemented properly. It’s clearly possible, seeming every other brand has managed.
- InTheArena 3y ago
  Really? I saw phantom breaking all the time from both Toyota and Hondas. Typically on a slope, with something like rail crossings where the signals got a little squirrely. having the same glitch across multiple vendors with different implementation makes me think it's more a basic physics problem. Regardless, the Tesla vision system - love it or hate it, is doing far far more safety systems then radar only based systems.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    In the 6 years I had it I got a handful of false warnings from my Honda, but never a false brake activation. In the three years I’ve had my Mach E has had fewer false alerts than the Honda. The one exception is it has a reverse brake assist the Honda didn’t, designed to stop you from hitting things when backing up. One friend’s driveway is so steep where it joins the street that if you’re not going very slow it will trigger the reverse brake assist. That was a surprise the first time.
    - 3y ago

kwhitefoot 3y ago

> Teslas have their radar units be disabled. That's simply untrue. My 2015 Model S still uses the radar.