4 ms·

I think those of us who came up before GPS and phones had an advantage in developing a sense of direction (and I'll add here a sense of orientation). I do tend

I think those of us who came up before GPS and phones had an advantage in developing a sense of direction (and I'll add here a sense of orientation). I do tend to be aware of the cardinal directions and can generally point them out with reasonable accuracy when asked. Unfortunately, when I give people directions I tend to say "Just to the East of such & such" or "Go south from there" and people kind of give me a blank expression (especially younger folks who haven't navigated without a phone/GPS) and I have to figure out a different way to describe the orientation. To me it makes sense, but giving cardinal directions seems to be making less sense to people. I think the other (related) aspect to this is being able to find some place again after you've been there once. Usually I don't need to consult a map to find a place if I've been there once, but I know people who find this difficult and will continue to consult online maps even after they've been somewhere before. So someone might ask me "how do I get to that place" and I'll reply, "we were there just last month - same place" and then I have to remember that not everyone is able to find a place they've only been to once before.

vsuperpower2020 3y ago
It's probably not a blank stare. Most of the time young people don't actually want non-GPS directions and are just being polite while you finish talking.
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  Yeah it is totally this. If someone is giving me directions like that, I am thinking, "why on earth are they doing that?", and waiting to be able to grab my phone.
  - Scrapemist 3y ago
    Then why ask for directions in the first place?
    - Shadowmist 3y ago
      Nobody asked.
      - CRConrad 3y ago
        > Nobody asked. > > I do tend to be aware of the cardinal directions and can generally point them out with reasonable accuracy when asked. [Emphasis added]
    - krisoft 3y ago
      Usually the situation is that we ask for an address, and get told directions instead.
      - VS1999 3y ago
        It's always funny to me when I'm new to an area and they offer me 14 precise turns and landmarks to get to the park 2 miles away. I'm just going to plug "the park" into my maps and know precisely where it is.
        CRConrad 3y ago
        > I'm just going to plug "the park" into my maps and know precisely where it is. No you won't. "Your maps" will know where it is, but not you.
        vsuperpower2020 3y ago
        What, are we being pointlessly pedantic today? Maps don't "know" anything, they're computer programs that run on your phone.
        CRConrad 3y ago
        > What, are we being pointlessly pedantic today? Being pedantic is never pointless. > Maps don't "know" anything, they're computer programs that run on your phone. True. So OK, should have used one more set of quotes: "Your maps" will "know" where it is, but not you. Thanks for the heads-up.
angiosperm 3y ago
There are languages that have no relative directions. You never "turn left", you only "turn south" or whatever. People who grow up with one of those as their first language all have absolute direction, even two-year-olds. If their boat overturns at sea in a storm, they will never doubt whether their boat blew away to the north or south. Everybody has to get it right just to be able to speak with comprehensible grammar, just the way you need to know what is past or to come.
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  What are some languages like that? Also does this ability mean they might have any beyond random ability to tell north and south when they were dropped to a new location, being blindfolded before? I assume there are hints like sun position depending on the day, so that could help them.
  - defrost 3y ago
    Several [1] (of many in total [2]) of Australian indigenous languages - although all native speakers tend to have exceptional spatial orientation. Also, traditionally they're territorial over large areas (eg: quarter the size of the UK) but over the course of a lifetime commonaly travel all corners of tat area - "randomly dropped" means they'll recognise vegetation, landforms, spot shadows, see water flow trace on the ground from up high looking out .. all the natural world things that orientate people who live there in the same manner as (most) urban people navigate cities; major freeways, tall buildings, changing architecture styles from region to region. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guugu_Yimithirr_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guugu_Yimithirr_language [2] https://mgnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/map_col_highres.jpg https://mgnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/map_col_high...
    - mewpmewp2 3y ago
      But I guess if they were taken from there and dropped somewhere in the northern hemisphere they would fail?
luma 3y ago
The poster you’ve replied to mention that they are 53. They for sure learned to drive and move around the world for a couple decades before consumer GPS navigation solutions were affordable for hobbyists. That post resonated with my own life. I had a passenger seat full of atlases, then later mapquest printouts, then some of the early handheld GPS solutions as soon as I could afford them. As they mention, it isn’t something that seems to be learned later in life, for me I rely on GPS because I’m hopeless without it.
- lolinder 3y ago
  You're replying to a top level comment that's presumably responding to TFA. The comment you're referring to is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40026374 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40026374
  - konstantinua00 3y ago
    website navigation is also a skill, apparently
- yzydserd 3y ago
  > The poster you’ve replied to mention that they are 53. They for sure learned to drive and move around the world for a couple decades before consumer GPS navigation solutions were affordable for hobbyists. Garmin portable units like the Street Pilot were available in 1998 for 400usd when the 53 year old would have been 27 years old.
  - luma 3y ago
    By my math, that qualifies for a couple decades of moving around the world. Thanks for the confirmation!
delfinom 3y ago
I know plenty of people who are at the age they should have learnt to navigate without phones and they still suck at direction. It could just be a problem just like how 4% of the population have no ability to visualize mentally aka aphantasia
datascienced 3y ago
If it is not urgent I like to get lost without the GPS and use it as a backup. Then I learn where stuff is!

vsuperpower2020 3y ago

It's probably not a blank stare. Most of the time young people don't actually want non-GPS directions and are just being polite while you finish talking.

mewpmewp2 3y ago
Yeah it is totally this. If someone is giving me directions like that, I am thinking, "why on earth are they doing that?", and waiting to be able to grab my phone.
- Scrapemist 3y ago
  Then why ask for directions in the first place?
  - Shadowmist 3y ago
    Nobody asked.
    - CRConrad 3y ago
      > Nobody asked. > > I do tend to be aware of the cardinal directions and can generally point them out with reasonable accuracy when asked. [Emphasis added]
  - krisoft 3y ago
    Usually the situation is that we ask for an address, and get told directions instead.
    - VS1999 3y ago
      It's always funny to me when I'm new to an area and they offer me 14 precise turns and landmarks to get to the park 2 miles away. I'm just going to plug "the park" into my maps and know precisely where it is.
      - CRConrad 3y ago
        > I'm just going to plug "the park" into my maps and know precisely where it is. No you won't. "Your maps" will know where it is, but not you.
        vsuperpower2020 3y ago
        What, are we being pointlessly pedantic today? Maps don't "know" anything, they're computer programs that run on your phone.
        CRConrad 3y ago
        > What, are we being pointlessly pedantic today? Being pedantic is never pointless. > Maps don't "know" anything, they're computer programs that run on your phone. True. So OK, should have used one more set of quotes: "Your maps" will "know" where it is, but not you. Thanks for the heads-up.

angiosperm 3y ago

There are languages that have no relative directions. You never "turn left", you only "turn south" or whatever. People who grow up with one of those as their first language all have absolute direction, even two-year-olds. If their boat overturns at sea in a storm, they will never doubt whether their boat blew away to the north or south. Everybody has to get it right just to be able to speak with comprehensible grammar, just the way you need to know what is past or to come.

mewpmewp2 3y ago
What are some languages like that? Also does this ability mean they might have any beyond random ability to tell north and south when they were dropped to a new location, being blindfolded before? I assume there are hints like sun position depending on the day, so that could help them.
- defrost 3y ago
  Several [1] (of many in total [2]) of Australian indigenous languages - although all native speakers tend to have exceptional spatial orientation. Also, traditionally they're territorial over large areas (eg: quarter the size of the UK) but over the course of a lifetime commonaly travel all corners of tat area - "randomly dropped" means they'll recognise vegetation, landforms, spot shadows, see water flow trace on the ground from up high looking out .. all the natural world things that orientate people who live there in the same manner as (most) urban people navigate cities; major freeways, tall buildings, changing architecture styles from region to region. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guugu_Yimithirr_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guugu_Yimithirr_language [2] https://mgnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/map_col_highres.jpg https://mgnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/map_col_high...
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    But I guess if they were taken from there and dropped somewhere in the northern hemisphere they would fail?

luma 3y ago

The poster you’ve replied to mention that they are 53. They for sure learned to drive and move around the world for a couple decades before consumer GPS navigation solutions were affordable for hobbyists. That post resonated with my own life. I had a passenger seat full of atlases, then later mapquest printouts, then some of the early handheld GPS solutions as soon as I could afford them. As they mention, it isn’t something that seems to be learned later in life, for me I rely on GPS because I’m hopeless without it.

lolinder 3y ago
You're replying to a top level comment that's presumably responding to TFA. The comment you're referring to is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40026374 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40026374
- konstantinua00 3y ago
  website navigation is also a skill, apparently
yzydserd 3y ago
> The poster you’ve replied to mention that they are 53. They for sure learned to drive and move around the world for a couple decades before consumer GPS navigation solutions were affordable for hobbyists. Garmin portable units like the Street Pilot were available in 1998 for 400usd when the 53 year old would have been 27 years old.
- luma 3y ago
  By my math, that qualifies for a couple decades of moving around the world. Thanks for the confirmation!

delfinom 3y ago

I know plenty of people who are at the age they should have learnt to navigate without phones and they still suck at direction. It could just be a problem just like how 4% of the population have no ability to visualize mentally aka aphantasia

datascienced 3y ago

If it is not urgent I like to get lost without the GPS and use it as a backup. Then I learn where stuff is!