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Japanese police arrest man for tampering with Pokémon Violet save data
- Loughla 3y agoReal question, what's the harm here? Are the modified Pokemon being used in competitions? What is the harm, really?
- josephcsible 3y ago> Are the modified Pokemon being used in competitions? Even if they were, the penalty should be limited to being banned from future competitions, not prison.
- grugagag 3y agoI agree but the Japanese legal system is very weird. It seems like pokemon is very a lucrative business and a tough sentencing is probably only as an example to deter future violations.
- jrockway 3y agoThe legal system sounds pretty normal. Elected officials are in their 80s. Some corporation comes to them with a bunch of mumbo jumbo not involving fax machines and a stack of money. Law enacted. I also think that east Asia thinks that esports are as important as normal sports, at least in the sense of exporting their culture. Everyone wants to be Hollywood or the NFL, and esports are their route to that kind of international renowned, or so they think. Thus, they have a bunch of laws to make sure nothing crops up that could impact that. Pokemon isn't an esport, but if you're 80, you don't know that.
- anigbrowl 3y agoThat's an absurd caricature; just checking in on TV news would have informed you that Japan's legislature has a fairly broad age distribution. Video games have been huge in Japan since the 1970s, and mechanical gambling games like pachinko well before that. I suspect most legislators have had household exposure to videogames, and any under 60 probably played growing up. Likewise Japan went wild for digital cellphones well before smartphones; there's a whole genre of literature called 'text message novels' that started in the early 2000s. As for this case, the prohibition on selling mod tools/services is certainly to protect the game manufacturers; if there's a perception that it's easy and safe to cheat in the game then players' incentive to spend (whether via microtransactions or future releases) goes way down, and so does the publisher's revenue, and so do tax receipts. I can't help noting that Japan's game industry isn't engaging in mass layoffs over the last few years, suggesting that maybe they know what they're doing. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2024/04/02/japan-no-games-layoffs/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2024/04/02/japan-no-ga... No manufacturer wants their product utility diluted. After market modifications that add a benefit to the user don't make the product any worse for people without the modification. but in a product which is used by people to compete for social entertainment, modifications absolutely hurt the product because wins and losses are no longer a function of skill.
- jrockway 3y agoI mean, we have legislators in their 30s in the US and we regulate tech like it's 80 year olds.
- redox99 3y ago> As for this case, the prohibition on selling mod tools/services is certainly to protect the game manufacturers; if there's a perception that it's easy and safe to cheat in the game then players' incentive to spend (whether via microtransactions or future releases) goes way down, and so does the publisher's revenue, and so do tax receipts. I can't help noting that Japan's game industry isn't engaging in mass layoffs over the last few years, suggesting that maybe they know what they're doing. There is 0 chance whatever prohibition on selling mods had any impact on mass layoffs happening or not happening.
- drngdds 3y ago>Are the modified Pokemon being used in competitions? Interestingly, it's pretty much standard for competitive Pokemon players to use hacked Pokemon because of the crazy time investment the game demands to train Pokemon with optimal stats and movesets legitimately. They use free methods to do this though.
- SuperNinKenDo 3y agoBased on the law invoked it seems the idea might be that his versions of the games essentially piggy-back off the trademarks attached to Pokemon, while effectively rendering the vanilla, unmodified cartridges such that they may be perceived to be an inferior product in comparison, despite being the original product. This seems like a stretch even under Japanese law, since the article gives the impression that he was not selling the cartridges themselves, but merely the service of taking cartridges and modifying them. But Japanese copyright law is kinda crazy. There's a reason that Japanese Wikipedia is almost totally bereft of images.
- t-3 3y agoI don't know whether I find it more crazy that editing a save file is a criminal offence in Japan, or that people will pay $30-$85 for the service.
- PaulHoule 3y agoThis is the country that brought you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate/Grand_Order https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate/Grand_Order
- arcanemachiner 3y agoYes, some video games are made in Japan. What is significant about this one?
- idle_zealot 3y agoPerhaps that it is a very lucrative gacha game. This sort of game is distributed for free and makes its money through microtransactions that amount to power boosts. Save editing would sidestep the business model. Another example of felony contempt of business model?
- dotnet00 3y agoFGO is an online game though, editing saves isn't a thing because the data you'd need to edit is all on their servers.
- PaulHoule 3y agoI think the asset packs are local so I think you could get images, character models, and stuff like that by hacking on a game.
- Dalewyn 3y ago>microtransactions that amount to power boosts. Tell me you know nothing about FGO without saying you know nothing about FGO. Microtransactions in FGO are for purchasing new characters from the gacha. "Power boosting" only comes from just playing the game like everyone else. Source: Been playing FGO Japan since 2016, and yes I'm a whale and yes I'm happy.
- adamtaylor_13 3y agoI was certain I’d find an April 1st publication date but holy cow that’s real. What a waste of public resources.
- anigbrowl 3y agoJapan takes theft seriously; you can go to prison for stealing small change, or lose your job for cheating at self-service coffee. https://sg.news.yahoo.com/japan-man-jailed-10-yen-theft-115917759.html https://sg.news.yahoo.com/japan-man-jailed-10-yen-theft-1159... https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/school-principal-in-japan-fired-for-coffee-theft-denied-retirement-pay https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/school-principal... It's severe, but I don't know what degree it's a waste of public resources. People like the rock-bottom crime rate. On the other hand, word is that Japanese police are not great at investigating more well-planned crime. A trend has emerged in recent years of professional criminals basing themselves abroad and using social media to recruit naïve/disaffected people for the manual labor part.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Dylan16807 3y agoYou can be very strict at punishing theft without having a very expansive definition of theft.
- anigbrowl 3y agoThis isn't defined as theft; my comment is to point out that Japan throws resources at policing/prosecuting violations on principle rather than scale of the injury. They are deontologists rather than utilitarians. Selling cheat devices/services is treated as a kind of unlawful commerce, because Ruining It For Everybody is socially unacceptable there.
- spxneo 3y ago[flagged]
- vsnf 3y agoWhy shouldn’t someone be free to modify their purchased, owned product to their hearts content, including paying others for modifications?
- gjsman-1000 3y agoReplace “owned product” with “movie” and you see the problem that would require a total copyright restructuring.
- sp332 3y agoHuh? If I own a video, I can edit it if I want. Selling the modified version would be the difficulty? But I could still hire someone to make a modification for me I think.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoNot in the US. There was a company that tried selling modified (I.e. censored) versions of Hollywood films. They lost. Copyright infringement. There was also a second attempt where people would mail in their disks, and receive an edited version back. Again, lost. So, whether we like it or not, nope. That’s not how things work, because any editing creates a “derivative work” in the eyes of the law, and only the copyright owner is allowed to make such derivative works. Even if you edit the film yourself, you’re making a derivative work. The only reason you won’t be sued is because the harm is $0.
- medellin 3y agoI don’t think you read what they wrote. They aren’t talking about selling anything
- gjsman-1000 3y agoEven if you were to give away your modified version, you could still be sued for harming the market for the original product. You can’t legally make derivative works. Even in the privacy of your own home. It’s only that there’s nothing to be legally won from if you only did it at home. That’s a pragmatic distinction, not a legal one.
- matt3210 3y agoMaking an open source tool for easy hacking would be a good middle finger to the nintendo police.
- zamadatix 3y agoI'd eat my shoe if the dude wasn't just using exactly that https://github.com/kwsch/PKHeX https://github.com/kwsch/PKHeX
- sosborn 3y agoThe first sentence puts it into a little bit of perspective: "Police in Japan have arrested a 36-year-old man on suspicion of selling illegally modified Pokémon save data to customers online — a practice which is banned under the country’s 2019 Unfair Competition Prevention Act." Now, it's still a ridiculous story, but it's a little easier to see how this happened.
- idle_zealot 3y agoDoes that sentence actually change the perspective? It still implies that the modification itself was illegal.
- Brian_K_White 3y agoYes. It changes it entirely. Obviously? Selling or otherwise distributing was illegal, or using hacked data with an on-line service, not merely hacking your own property.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- zamadatix 3y agoThe law may seem silly/not worthwhile but at least it gives perspective there is a law saying selling modified things in a way that might make competition unfair is explicitly illegal instead of someone just deciding save edits are bad and something worth arresting for in a vacuum.
- Dylan16807 3y agoBut the law is about business competition. So how is that competition becoming unfair? Just naming this law without a lot more explanation does pretty much nothing for perspective.
- zamadatix 3y agoThe perspective is seeing the law explicitly says said activity is unfair and illegal independent of whether one's ideology agrees said law is reasonable or should exist. E.g. if there was a 2022 law calling for arrest of those holding ice cream cones upside down because of risk to the sidewalk cleanliness then knowing that gives perspective to why someone was arrested for holding an ice cream cone upside down beyond just a random arrest decision for something one thinks everyone would consider harmless. That doesn't mean it convinces you personally that the law is reasonable and, just that it was indeed an explicitly illegal activity.
- slowhadoken 3y agoNot just tampering but also selling and there’s a law against it in Japan. Nintendo usually draws the line where it counts.
- roughly 3y agoThis feels like the Japanese equivalent of all the crazy laws that Disney’s gotten passed in the US.
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoThere were game save websites back in 2000 where people could go and download saves for their Dreamcast straight to their memory cards. People would also make homebrew games and animations for the VMUs (virtual memory unit). The memory cards were like mini Gameboys. Fun times. I couldn't imagine getting arrested for that.
- GlumWoodpecker 3y agoThese websites still exist and are enjoyed by many! GameFAQs for example, hosts a large number of saves. Most recently I downloaded a complete save file for Micro Machines V3 for the PS2, so we didn't have to grind to unlock all cars for multiplayer :)
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoCool! I had no idea. Kind of just forgot that they existed because it's been almost 20 years since I downloaded a game save
- 090rf 3y ago[dead]
- mjg59 3y agoPeople pointing out that this is some weird quirk of Japanese law: if there's an argument that reverse engineering the software to determine how this works is circumvention of a technical control, this would potentially be a violation of 17 U.S. Code § 1201 - https://dair-community.social/@kendraserra/111675401216788985 https://dair-community.social/@kendraserra/11167540121678898... discusses case law around a separate kind of case, but one that could be argued here. Let's not criticise Japanese law without acknowledging that US law is also fucked up.
- samatman 3y agoThose aren't the only two options. Shall we make sure to criticize the law of all 192 remaining member states of the United Nations every time one country's legal system comes into focus? Wouldn't want to leave anyone out.
- boomboomsubban 3y agoWhile I agree that the US law on the matter is also fucked up, 17 U.S. Code § 1201 seems to be a civil violation not a criminal one. The police wouldn't arrest you and the punishment is financial and an injunction from further activities.
- mjg59 3y agoUS vs Elcom was based on 1201 violations?
- boomboomsubban 3y agoEvery 1201 violation in the indictment is paired with a Title 18 violation, which is the section on Federal crimes. See https://www.eff.org/node/55475 https://www.eff.org/node/55475 At least from my reading of section 1201 alone, I don't see criminal charges mentioned, though I'm just a laymen. They seem to be able to use it in combination to charge you though, so not any better than Japan.
- megapolitics 3y ago
- genewitch 3y agoanyone else get a weird feeling reading the article? there is some jank in there, for example: >Its worth noting that the raw last for Pokemon — ... there's also some duplicated lines (the headline makes an appearance without a space after a period, for instance) and some repetition. Not sure if AI or a hastily written article by someone unfamiliar with words. Not sure what the TCG has to do with save files, either.
- Jerrrry 3y agoWhenever you modify a game to sell items, that compete, even indirectly, with a currency/infer-currency of a company, you have deprived them. This is actually pretty clear cut.
- umvi 3y agoNot surprising from a country that will arrest you for other non crimes such as being in possession of lockpicks (also fun fact - their police are extremely skeptical that Americans watch lockpickers on YouTube as a hobby even if said lockpicks are straight from said YouTuber's company)
- namlem 3y agoI think possession of lockpicks is illegal in NYC as well. Though I doubt they're enforcing that rn
- qingcharles 3y agoIt's enforced here in Illinois if they catch you doing something with them. They add it on as an extra charge.
- DaSHacka 3y agoThat's how it is in most States. You can own/carry lockpicks, and even carry them past TSA, but if you're caught somewhere you're not supposed to be, you're now hit with possession of burglary tools. This is also why urbex communities reccomend not bringing picks while exploring places, as they'll bring more trouble than its worth if you're caught.
- MadnessASAP 3y agoI recall that being an extremely hard and fast rule on my brief foray into urban exploration. Never ever have anything that could be construed as a weapon or burglary tool. Even if all you did was walk through an open door it makes it far too easy to build a case for breaking and entering, instead of much milder trespassing.
- qingcharles 3y agoRight. A lot of these statutes swing on "intent." And if you have something suspicious on your person it is easier to get the trier of fact to see it.
- riwsky 3y agoyou wouldn’t GameShark A CAR
- fy20 3y agoIn my country it's pretty common to remap and modify the ECU settings. For €100 you can have someone remap the fuel injection system to give you more power for less fuel (VW are notorious for this, you can easily get 25% more power), or you can have environmental features disabled that will end up breaking such as EGR, DPF, AdBlue, etc. Someone who does it is a friend of a friend, and he drives a Tesla, so I guess it's not a bad business to be in.
- morsch 3y agoI guess we need a licence for car ownership in addition to driving, and that should be a way of losing it.
- maxbond 3y agoOn balance it's probably a good thing for people to be able to modify their cars. We wouldn't want to build a world where you're beholden to the whims of car companies on pain of having your ability to own a car revoked. That would be a recipe for abuse. If people modify their cars in dangerous or illegal ways, that's presumably already a crime they could get their license revoked for.
- sidewndr46 3y agowouldn't an emissions inspection notice this or do they not do that there?
- playingalong 3y agoProbably it varies country by country, but I would guess that road safety rules have some common thresholds of parameters like emissions. And not enforce detoriation when compared to factory state. The latter is probably a natural phenomenon with wear.
- hipadev23 3y agoImagine being so mad about Palworld you hire secret police to arrest modders.
- nonbirithm 3y agoSomething similar happened in the late 1990's when a PlayStation memory card was being sold with pre-loaded save data for a dating sim game (Tokimeki Memorial). Konami claimed it violated the integrity of the work because selling a hacked save with all stats maxed tampered with the game's natural progression. (And they won twice, the original case and the appeal.) https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%A8%E3%81%8D%E3%82%81%E3%81%8D%E3%83%A1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%E3%83%A1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6 https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%A8%E3%81%8D%E3%82%81%... http://gaming.moe/?p=2938 http://gaming.moe/?p=2938
- maxbond 3y agoThat's such a weird theory of harm. They still had to buy a copy of the game, right? So the harm is that the consumer would experience the story in the way they chose instead of the way the author intended? Death of the audience I suppose?
- ronsor 3y agoNo, this theory of harm is a direct consequence of the weird "moral rights" thing that is a part of Japanese copyright law.
- maxbond 3y agoThat's a good clarification, but it does lead us back to where we started. What's the harm of violating "integrity?" That the author doesn't get to present the story in the manner they chose.
- ronsor 3y agoIt only makes sense with the context of Japanese copyright law. Here's the actual text: > (Right to Integrity) > Article 20 (1) The author of a work has the right to preserve the integrity of that work and its title, and is not to be made to suffer any alteration, cut, or other modification thereto that is contrary to the author's intention. If you distribute hacked save files, you are "cutting out" parts of the original game story, and thus violate this article. Yes, it is ludicrous, but it's consistent, at least.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- spxneo 3y agoTitle should be: 36 year old man gets his life ruined for making $84 in total profit from proceeds of "crime". If he's peddling "hacked consumer products" he's already on his last leg as a 36 year old. Even if he manages to get a job by some miracle he's going to get ijime'd hard by his co-workers who will view him as a convict. this is up there with the case where they arrested a student for some javascript code she wrote that caused never ending alert dialog popups at the library? Neo-confucianism is just glorified gerontocracy. > The 36-year-old allegedly took custom orders for rare Pokémon, and sold the resulting tampered data between December 2022 to March 2023, for up to 13,000 yen ($84) a time on a website that served as a marketplace for video game assets and items. He also offered deals in which six Pokémon would be created for the equivalent of roughly $30 in yen. Yet bunch of ojiisans steal $1.7 billion as executives of a flagship Japanese company and nobody goes to jail. Some gaijin CEO 20x your struggling car company and you send HIM to jail for taking a bit of bonus as compensation! Unreal.
- wetpaws 3y ago[dead]
- sharpshadow 3y agoIf he would let a LLM play the game to acquire desired save data then he could sell it under Japanese law?