7 ms·

Organizing OpenStreetMap mapping parties

213 points by pabs3 3y ago

globular-toast 3y ago
This is a great effort. People just doing something good for the community. No expectation of reward or seeking rent on the output. Just doing the right thing. Compare with Google who use their monopoly position to keep amassing data which they keep for themselves. Imagine all the effort that's gone into working for Google for free that could have been put into OSM. If you work on tools for allowing people to do that you should be ashamed. On a different note it's funny to think back to the start of OSM. It was created in the UK because all the data from our beloved national mapping department, all paid for by us, the public, of course, was not available for use in any way by emerging digital technology like GPS etc. After waiting for too long people decided we'll just build our own. Now we have one of the richest datasets in existence and it's free. There's still a ton of stuff locked up in Ordnance Survey, though, and can't be released because reasons. It's also fun to think how much fun OSM was back then. We were literally walking round neighbourhoods collecting GPS data in completely blank parts of the map. Satellite imagery came later but can't help thinking it's a way things becoming "better" made them less fun.
- kleene_op 3y ago
  This. OSM is a gold mine. It deserves all the praises it gets.
- cjk2 3y ago
  I wouldn't call Ordinance Survey beloved. Their leisure maps have been a rotting liability for the last decade at least. Totally untrustworthy for hikers/walkers. I only discovered OSM after getting shafted on a public footpath which was completely destroyed and had been for years with a river running through it and a mud bank.
- wcedmisten 3y ago
  I'm mostly an "armchair mapper", but I actually find adding details from satellite imagery to be really fun. It's kind of like a nerdy version of paint-by-number.
Hrnrurj 3y ago
It would be handy to give street mappers some sort of defense tool from dogs. Like air horn, sticks or maybe peper spray. India has a huge problem with packs of wild street dogs, that regularly attack and kill people. It is dangerous to roam on streets you do not know very well.
- jraph 3y ago
  Seems horrible. That would not be specific to street mappers though, would it?
  - Hrnrurj 3y ago
    They mostly attack small kids, so sadly no.
    - dang 3y ago
      Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a community, users need some identity for other users to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=community%20identity%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
- schubart 3y ago
  From the article: > All surveyors should carry pepper spray for emergencies, whether they involve human or non-human animals. India is not for beginners, as the meme goes.
- pugworthy 3y ago
  This kind of applies to following existing OSM maps. I did a “walk every street in my city” thing a year ago, and some of the “streets” are very much private property and not public pathways. I was using Citystrides FYI.
komali2 3y ago
I'm really curious how this person got codeberg pages working, I still haven't managed to get a codeberg page deployed. I thought it required a 3rd party server, like their actions seem to. Also: > It's easy to pick a proprietary network like Telegram or an unsustainable one like Matrix, What's unsustainable about Matrix? I've really enjoyed running our community on Matrix.
- progval 3y ago
  Matrix.org (and Element) is running out of money and hosts a large number of free users. The rest of the community probably won't be able to handle the influx of users the day the Matrix.org homeserver needs to close.
  - komali2 3y ago
    That's the usecase of Matrix As IRC I guess you mean? I've never participated in any matrix.org rooms outside of the matrix / synapse / element support rooms (I believe they're on matrix.org). For our community it's kind of moot if matrix.org closes, the only downside is of course support will drop off precipitously. But other than that, we self host.
    - progval 3y ago
      I don't see what this has to do with IRC. But if all your users use your homeserver, then yes you should be fine.
      - komali2 3y ago
        I mean in the sense that IRC as a community and support hub for certain things like various Linux distros, other Foss projects etc, shifted away from irc to other tools like discourse or matrix. I believe several are hosted on matrix.org.
        Arathorn 3y ago
david-gpu 3y ago
OpenStreetMap is great and I only wish more people using apps like Strava, RideWithGPS, Komoot or OSMAnd realized that they can contribute, benefitting everybody else using those apps. In Toronto I only see a very small number of people contributing to OSM's cycling infrastructure, which results in the map not as up-to-date, which in turn means that the aforementioned apps will not propose routes through the nicest, most recently built bicycle tracks we have in the city. The situation is not terrible by any means, but it could be better.
- taude 3y ago
  If i'm using ridewithgps, how do I contribute? is there an easy tool, or maybe it's something these tools could integrate? I know I ride trails thatdon't always show up on OSM views.
  - jraph 3y ago
    I don't know the app, but a generic way to do it would be to import your GPX trace on osm.org and add paths that are missing.
    - taude 3y ago
      Cool, that sounds easy enough. I was thinking it'd be great if the app itself I used supported a feature to make it easy to add trails.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    Contributing is simple: 1. When you see a trail or any other feature that doesn't appear on the map, take a picture. 2. When you get home, visit https://www.openstreetmap.org https://www.openstreetmap.org and start drawing. The website has satellite images overlayed wirh map data, so it's easy to see what you are doing. You can look at your pictures to remind yourself of what was missing. If you have recorded your ride,you can also upload your GPX trace to OpenStreetMap to make it easier to trace features that don't show up clearly on satellite images. Don't be afraid of making mistakes. Look around and start small. Good luck!
pietervdvn 3y ago
Shameless plug for my project where one can easily see data from and add data to OpenStreetMap: https://MapComplete.org https://MapComplete.org
- ikesau 3y ago
  Similarly, as recommended in the article, StreetComplete[1], which shows incomplete areas on your map and marks them as quests to add to :) Also recommended, Organic Maps[2], which is an OSM client that's good enough to use as my main map app (in my city, at least) Final recommendation, this interview[3] with the founder of OpenStreetMap Steve Coast. 3 hours of fascinating insight into the history and future of the project, including how he doesn't think OSM will be relevant for much longer once someone manages to develop a mapping project into their self-driving cars [1] https://streetcomplete.app/?lang=en https://streetcomplete.app/?lang=en [2] https://organicmaps.app/ https://organicmaps.app/ [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB9NxbnE1i0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB9NxbnE1i0
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - komali2 3y ago
    > including how he doesn't think OSM will be relevant for much longer once someone manages to develop a mapping project into their self-driving cars As someone who intends to never drive again, this is very funny to me. Cars are very obviously not the future of human transport, self driving or otherwise. They take up an absurd amount of space.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      They're very obviously the near to mid term future of transportation for a huge number of people.
    - KiranRao0 3y ago
      > Cars are very obviously not the future of human transport I wish this were true. However, I'm seeing the trend pointing in the opposite direction almost everywhere. For example, almost every European country has seen a rise in the motorization rate. [1] China is also firmly on the rise, and America remains 80-90% [2] Given this, I don't expect that OSM has the ability/authority to make a dent in motor vehicle usage rates. I do, however, believe they can take advantage of the way the world exists today to improve open source mapping. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/DDN-20230530-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/D... [2] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/car-ownership-statistics/#department-of-transportation-federal https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/car-ownership-s... [Not cited, but neet]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/27503807 https://www.jstor.org/stable/27503807
casiejudi 3y ago
[flagged]
sydbarrett74 3y ago
I wonder if Niantic would ever open up some API's to gamify this by tying it into Pokémon Go.
- pietervdvn 3y ago
  Pokemon go already is based on OpenStreetMap. And yes, a few OSM-contributors started because a park was missing and they thus lacked a spawnpoint for pokemons. But we've also head plenty of teens adding fake data to have pokemons in their front garden. To much gamification hurts.
  - sydbarrett74 3y ago
    Fascinating! Didn't know that Go was based on OSM. This sounds like a really cool project. Thanks for your hard work.
    - pietervdvn 3y ago
      Thanks! Niantec started as a startup within Google's startup incubator and thus used Google Maps in the very beginning. However, they got 'spun out' and when the price became to expensive, they switched to OSM anno 2017. (I'm not sure about the details, but I think the spawn points were OSM based long before the map rendering was OSM based to). In either case, read their Wikipedia page for more details (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niantic,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niantic,_Inc.) and our OSM-wikipage (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Go https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Go)
nakedrobot2 3y ago
I went to a State of the Map conference in Antwerp last year. For me it was fascinating, and not my normal type of crowd. A couple of things stuck out to me though. It reminded me of the saying about libertarians: "Libertarians are like house cats. Completely dependent on a system they neither understand nor appreciate and fiercely confident of their own independence." I love everything about openstreetmap, but it is completely dependent on the charity of Microsoft who donates the aerial/satellite images, which cost them millions. Without these images, there just would not be any openstreetmap at all. So while I appreciate the fiercely independent attitude of a lot of the OSM community, I also saw a lot of self-deception about how very dependent they are on these very large corporations, without whom they would have no source of data from which to make these maps.
- RicoElectrico 3y ago
  There are other providers, like Mapbox and Esri, not to mention local governments. There's a dependence, but not critical.
- aendruk 3y ago
  Depends where you go. Around here the local government provides aerial imagery as a public service and it’s higher quality than Microsoft’s. A nearby city recently began using OSM in its GIS services and bootstrapped the new arrangement by collaborating with local OSM volunteers to import previously inaccessible data into OSM. Implementing open data projects through government is completely in line with the goals of OSM.
- pastage 3y ago
  While true that Yahoo and then Bing has been important there are many other free sources of satellite imagery now days. OSM did not have access to imagery for quite a few years, so it possible without them, and also quite a lot more fun.
- sp8962 3y ago
  First OSM existed and was already quite good many years before we got access to Bing imagery (2010). Undoubtedly there was a big boost in some types of mapping due to a reasonable quality global imagery source being available, mainly buildings, but it isn't as if we couldn't have continued without it. Since then a lot of things have changed and the global imagery layers (currently Bing, ESRI and mapbox, all three using Maxar for a significant part) are, in developed parts of the world, mainly just used as a lesser quality fallback. As an example where I'm making right now, I'm using state level, a federal and a global (non-Bing) imagery.
sp8962 3y ago
I need to quote myself on this thread https://twitter.com/sp8962/status/1534079141640904705 https://twitter.com/sp8962/status/1534079141640904705 Steve hasn't been a relevant force in OSM for more than a decade and if you want to do OSM a favour, point people to the editor on openstreetmap.org, not any of the mobile or "simplified" editing apps.
- aendruk 3y ago
  What do you recommend to beginners for mapping in the field? Walk around with a laptop? Or just notes on paper for later data entry? In the mapping events I’ve attended a clear goal was to onboard people into contributing casually and frequently as they go about their everyday lives. (For context I can’t see the linked Twitter thread and have no idea why you’re talking about Steve)
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    the iD editor https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID
    - aendruk 3y ago
      That’s great to hear. The OSM website hides the Edit link on my phone and I’d inferred that iD must therefore not be sufficiently usable on mobile.
      - eisa01 3y ago
        It's not usable on an iPad, so likely not on mobile either. I was able to do edits in RapID (the Facebook fork), although you need to reload between each edit.
  - sp8962 3y ago
    The easiest thing people can do these days is to take georeferenced photographs with their phones, best with a photo app that will record the direction the phone was pointing, for example OpenCamera on Android. Then take their time and then add the information either with iD (the javascript based editor on openstreetmap.org) on a desktop (or JOSM if they are savy enough), or on either of the mobile editors, but most importantly sitting down in peace and quiet. While direct entry (on the phone) is what I would do and would recommend for anybody that already knows the ropes, it is going to be overwhelming for a beginner. PS: I was commenting on the whole thread, and if you look through it you will see Steve mentioned as the OSM savant.
orblivion 3y ago
I'm trying my hand at organizing mapping events. In fact I'm doing one tomorrow by coincidence. The first few, I agonized over making sure everything was prepared, I have an agenda for how I think things will go. It's pointless. People are doing their own thing. One guy came with a phone without an Internet connection so we couldn't even edit the same area without saving over each other. He had to upload later and deal with the conflicts. At least, it's pointless for me. I guess I need a firmer hand or something. Or maybe it's because I'm not in a heavy population center (it's questionable that I could even start an OSM community here) and I'm at the mercy of whoever I can even get to show up. In Delhi I'm sure it's different. At this point I'm just going to aim for regular events, minimal planning on my part, less stress and more energy for more events. We'll figure it out as we go, as we end up doing anyway. Tomorrow is my first event with that approach, we'll see how it goes. I only have two other people showing up, so it should be simple.
- contrapunctus 3y ago
  Hey, author here. I guess this is something I should update the post to address. I guess I have always been in the "agonizing over every detail" stage, and remain so today (looks like we both have mapping parties tomorrow, because tomorrow's our 7th party :) ). In the beginning, we were much more "lax". We waited for latecomers. During the survey, we moved in one big group. We focused on the social aspect of the meetup - often, the meet-and-greet phase would go on for too long, and there wouldn't be much time spent in actual mapping. After each party, I would be disappointed to note that most people did not make significant map changes during the survey. In the 5th party, we decided to observe a stricter schedule, and tried a new approach - that of splitting up into teams, assigning an area to each team, surveying the assigned areas, then regrouping and reviewing the contributions. There was a radical difference. Everyone was contributing. A significant amount of data was gathered, and the social aspect of the meetup didn't seem to suffer as we feared it might. Delhi is very populous, but somehow there are very few OSM contributors here. [1] It's been a real struggle to get people interested in OSM, and even more of a struggle to keep them contributing in the long term. Most participants don't continue mapping after the mapping party/workshop. I prefer to think there's something off in my approach rather than in the people, because that gives me the energy to keep trying new things. It's great that you're organizing mapping parties in your region. I laud your initiative. Good luck for your parties! [1] India's OSM community seems to mostly be concentrated in the southern states. For the Delhi OSM community, Bangalore remains our inspiration both for OSM coverage and for mapping party productivity.
ilaksh 3y ago
I wonder if it would be possible to use a fine-tuned LLaVA 1.6 along with the GPS/phone orientation and reference tape measure etc. in images collected via app. I think if you can cover from multiple directions and aggregate the data effectively it could be pretty efficient. Not saying it's easy but I want to believe that a fine tuned open vision model can do a lot. Or just use Claude or GPT 4 vision.
contrapunctus 3y ago
Hi! Author here, wasn't expecting that someone would share this hastily-hacked-together post on HN ^^' Thanks for reading, and ask me anything! PS - I suspect some may have missed my footnotes if they were reading on mobile - tap the numbers to see them.
- Tactician_mark 3y ago
  Those footnote toggles that transition to margin notes on bigger screens are absolutely amazing! Definitely going to try stealing that, thank you :)
  - contrapunctus 3y ago
    Glad you like them :D They come from the tufte-css project - https://github.com/edwardtufte/tufte-css https://github.com/edwardtufte/tufte-css
- owenpalmer 3y ago
  Hi, great article. I'm pretty new to OSM. One of my hobbies is 3D scanning for photogrammetry. Is there a good way to contribute 3d models (retopologized ofc) to OSM in some way? Could include drone scans or buildings, sculptures, etc.
  - contrapunctus 3y ago
    Thanks! I've been interested in mapping with drones myself, but the cost has kept me out. The 3D Model Repository sounds like what you want. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D_Model_Repository https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D_Model_Repository Wikimedia Commons might work for this, too. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Commons#3D_models https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Commons#3D_mod... Tangentially, if you aren't already aware of them, you may be interested in OpenDroneMap (ODM) https://opendronemap.org/ https://opendronemap.org/ and OpenAerialMap (OAM) https://openaerialmap.org/ https://openaerialmap.org/
SamWhited 3y ago
I really enjoyed this! I've only tried to do this once and it was a bit of a failure (nobody showed up on the day despite a lot of interest), but since then I've done a lot of organizing in other fields (political stuff mostly) and have a lot more experience planning events. The mix of general organizing principals (call people, they're way more likely to show up) and OSM specific stuff in this article (don't map eg. a mall, it's more confusing for newbies) was really helpful and I think there are a lot of tips for organizing other kinds of things; everything from lan parties to mutual aid could benefit from this. Thank you OP!
NiggersofHN 3y ago
[flagged]

213 points by pabs3 3y ago

This is a great effort. People just doing something good for the community. No expectation of reward or seeking rent on the output. Just doing the right thing. Compare with Google who use their monopoly position to keep amassing data which they keep for themselves. Imagine all the effort that's gone into working for Google for free that could have been put into OSM. If you work on tools for allowing people to do that you should be ashamed. On a different note it's funny to think back to the start of OSM. It was created in the UK because all the data from our beloved national mapping department, all paid for by us, the public, of course, was not available for use in any way by emerging digital technology like GPS etc. After waiting for too long people decided we'll just build our own. Now we have one of the richest datasets in existence and it's free. There's still a ton of stuff locked up in Ordnance Survey, though, and can't be released because reasons. It's also fun to think how much fun OSM was back then. We were literally walking round neighbourhoods collecting GPS data in completely blank parts of the map. Satellite imagery came later but can't help thinking it's a way things becoming "better" made them less fun.

kleene_op 3y ago
This. OSM is a gold mine. It deserves all the praises it gets.
cjk2 3y ago
I wouldn't call Ordinance Survey beloved. Their leisure maps have been a rotting liability for the last decade at least. Totally untrustworthy for hikers/walkers. I only discovered OSM after getting shafted on a public footpath which was completely destroyed and had been for years with a river running through it and a mud bank.
wcedmisten 3y ago
I'm mostly an "armchair mapper", but I actually find adding details from satellite imagery to be really fun. It's kind of like a nerdy version of paint-by-number.

Hrnrurj 3y ago

It would be handy to give street mappers some sort of defense tool from dogs. Like air horn, sticks or maybe peper spray. India has a huge problem with packs of wild street dogs, that regularly attack and kill people. It is dangerous to roam on streets you do not know very well.

jraph 3y ago
Seems horrible. That would not be specific to street mappers though, would it?
- Hrnrurj 3y ago
  They mostly attack small kids, so sadly no.
  - dang 3y ago
    Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a community, users need some identity for other users to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=community%20identity%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
schubart 3y ago
From the article: > All surveyors should carry pepper spray for emergencies, whether they involve human or non-human animals. India is not for beginners, as the meme goes.
pugworthy 3y ago
This kind of applies to following existing OSM maps. I did a “walk every street in my city” thing a year ago, and some of the “streets” are very much private property and not public pathways. I was using Citystrides FYI.

komali2 3y ago

I'm really curious how this person got codeberg pages working, I still haven't managed to get a codeberg page deployed. I thought it required a 3rd party server, like their actions seem to. Also: > It's easy to pick a proprietary network like Telegram or an unsustainable one like Matrix, What's unsustainable about Matrix? I've really enjoyed running our community on Matrix.

progval 3y ago
Matrix.org (and Element) is running out of money and hosts a large number of free users. The rest of the community probably won't be able to handle the influx of users the day the Matrix.org homeserver needs to close.
- komali2 3y ago
  That's the usecase of Matrix As IRC I guess you mean? I've never participated in any matrix.org rooms outside of the matrix / synapse / element support rooms (I believe they're on matrix.org). For our community it's kind of moot if matrix.org closes, the only downside is of course support will drop off precipitously. But other than that, we self host.
  - progval 3y ago
    I don't see what this has to do with IRC. But if all your users use your homeserver, then yes you should be fine.
    - komali2 3y ago
      I mean in the sense that IRC as a community and support hub for certain things like various Linux distros, other Foss projects etc, shifted away from irc to other tools like discourse or matrix. I believe several are hosted on matrix.org.
      - Arathorn 3y ago

david-gpu 3y ago

OpenStreetMap is great and I only wish more people using apps like Strava, RideWithGPS, Komoot or OSMAnd realized that they can contribute, benefitting everybody else using those apps. In Toronto I only see a very small number of people contributing to OSM's cycling infrastructure, which results in the map not as up-to-date, which in turn means that the aforementioned apps will not propose routes through the nicest, most recently built bicycle tracks we have in the city. The situation is not terrible by any means, but it could be better.

taude 3y ago
If i'm using ridewithgps, how do I contribute? is there an easy tool, or maybe it's something these tools could integrate? I know I ride trails thatdon't always show up on OSM views.
- jraph 3y ago
  I don't know the app, but a generic way to do it would be to import your GPX trace on osm.org and add paths that are missing.
  - taude 3y ago
    Cool, that sounds easy enough. I was thinking it'd be great if the app itself I used supported a feature to make it easy to add trails.
- david-gpu 3y ago
  Contributing is simple: 1. When you see a trail or any other feature that doesn't appear on the map, take a picture. 2. When you get home, visit https://www.openstreetmap.org https://www.openstreetmap.org and start drawing. The website has satellite images overlayed wirh map data, so it's easy to see what you are doing. You can look at your pictures to remind yourself of what was missing. If you have recorded your ride,you can also upload your GPX trace to OpenStreetMap to make it easier to trace features that don't show up clearly on satellite images. Don't be afraid of making mistakes. Look around and start small. Good luck!

pietervdvn 3y ago

Shameless plug for my project where one can easily see data from and add data to OpenStreetMap: https://MapComplete.org https://MapComplete.org

ikesau 3y ago
Similarly, as recommended in the article, StreetComplete[1], which shows incomplete areas on your map and marks them as quests to add to :) Also recommended, Organic Maps[2], which is an OSM client that's good enough to use as my main map app (in my city, at least) Final recommendation, this interview[3] with the founder of OpenStreetMap Steve Coast. 3 hours of fascinating insight into the history and future of the project, including how he doesn't think OSM will be relevant for much longer once someone manages to develop a mapping project into their self-driving cars [1] https://streetcomplete.app/?lang=en https://streetcomplete.app/?lang=en [2] https://organicmaps.app/ https://organicmaps.app/ [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB9NxbnE1i0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB9NxbnE1i0
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- komali2 3y ago
  > including how he doesn't think OSM will be relevant for much longer once someone manages to develop a mapping project into their self-driving cars As someone who intends to never drive again, this is very funny to me. Cars are very obviously not the future of human transport, self driving or otherwise. They take up an absurd amount of space.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    They're very obviously the near to mid term future of transportation for a huge number of people.
  - KiranRao0 3y ago
    > Cars are very obviously not the future of human transport I wish this were true. However, I'm seeing the trend pointing in the opposite direction almost everywhere. For example, almost every European country has seen a rise in the motorization rate. [1] China is also firmly on the rise, and America remains 80-90% [2] Given this, I don't expect that OSM has the ability/authority to make a dent in motor vehicle usage rates. I do, however, believe they can take advantage of the way the world exists today to improve open source mapping. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/DDN-20230530-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/D... [2] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/car-ownership-statistics/#department-of-transportation-federal https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/car-ownership-s... [Not cited, but neet]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/27503807 https://www.jstor.org/stable/27503807

casiejudi 3y ago

[flagged]

sydbarrett74 3y ago

I wonder if Niantic would ever open up some API's to gamify this by tying it into Pokémon Go.

pietervdvn 3y ago
Pokemon go already is based on OpenStreetMap. And yes, a few OSM-contributors started because a park was missing and they thus lacked a spawnpoint for pokemons. But we've also head plenty of teens adding fake data to have pokemons in their front garden. To much gamification hurts.
- sydbarrett74 3y ago
  Fascinating! Didn't know that Go was based on OSM. This sounds like a really cool project. Thanks for your hard work.
  - pietervdvn 3y ago
    Thanks! Niantec started as a startup within Google's startup incubator and thus used Google Maps in the very beginning. However, they got 'spun out' and when the price became to expensive, they switched to OSM anno 2017. (I'm not sure about the details, but I think the spawn points were OSM based long before the map rendering was OSM based to). In either case, read their Wikipedia page for more details (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niantic,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niantic,_Inc.) and our OSM-wikipage (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Go https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Go)

nakedrobot2 3y ago

I went to a State of the Map conference in Antwerp last year. For me it was fascinating, and not my normal type of crowd. A couple of things stuck out to me though. It reminded me of the saying about libertarians: "Libertarians are like house cats. Completely dependent on a system they neither understand nor appreciate and fiercely confident of their own independence." I love everything about openstreetmap, but it is completely dependent on the charity of Microsoft who donates the aerial/satellite images, which cost them millions. Without these images, there just would not be any openstreetmap at all. So while I appreciate the fiercely independent attitude of a lot of the OSM community, I also saw a lot of self-deception about how very dependent they are on these very large corporations, without whom they would have no source of data from which to make these maps.

RicoElectrico 3y ago
There are other providers, like Mapbox and Esri, not to mention local governments. There's a dependence, but not critical.
aendruk 3y ago
Depends where you go. Around here the local government provides aerial imagery as a public service and it’s higher quality than Microsoft’s. A nearby city recently began using OSM in its GIS services and bootstrapped the new arrangement by collaborating with local OSM volunteers to import previously inaccessible data into OSM. Implementing open data projects through government is completely in line with the goals of OSM.
pastage 3y ago
While true that Yahoo and then Bing has been important there are many other free sources of satellite imagery now days. OSM did not have access to imagery for quite a few years, so it possible without them, and also quite a lot more fun.
sp8962 3y ago
First OSM existed and was already quite good many years before we got access to Bing imagery (2010). Undoubtedly there was a big boost in some types of mapping due to a reasonable quality global imagery source being available, mainly buildings, but it isn't as if we couldn't have continued without it. Since then a lot of things have changed and the global imagery layers (currently Bing, ESRI and mapbox, all three using Maxar for a significant part) are, in developed parts of the world, mainly just used as a lesser quality fallback. As an example where I'm making right now, I'm using state level, a federal and a global (non-Bing) imagery.

sp8962 3y ago

I need to quote myself on this thread https://twitter.com/sp8962/status/1534079141640904705 https://twitter.com/sp8962/status/1534079141640904705 Steve hasn't been a relevant force in OSM for more than a decade and if you want to do OSM a favour, point people to the editor on openstreetmap.org, not any of the mobile or "simplified" editing apps.

aendruk 3y ago
What do you recommend to beginners for mapping in the field? Walk around with a laptop? Or just notes on paper for later data entry? In the mapping events I’ve attended a clear goal was to onboard people into contributing casually and frequently as they go about their everyday lives. (For context I can’t see the linked Twitter thread and have no idea why you’re talking about Steve)
- mistrial9 3y ago
  the iD editor https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID
  - aendruk 3y ago
    That’s great to hear. The OSM website hides the Edit link on my phone and I’d inferred that iD must therefore not be sufficiently usable on mobile.
    - eisa01 3y ago
      It's not usable on an iPad, so likely not on mobile either. I was able to do edits in RapID (the Facebook fork), although you need to reload between each edit.
- sp8962 3y ago
  The easiest thing people can do these days is to take georeferenced photographs with their phones, best with a photo app that will record the direction the phone was pointing, for example OpenCamera on Android. Then take their time and then add the information either with iD (the javascript based editor on openstreetmap.org) on a desktop (or JOSM if they are savy enough), or on either of the mobile editors, but most importantly sitting down in peace and quiet. While direct entry (on the phone) is what I would do and would recommend for anybody that already knows the ropes, it is going to be overwhelming for a beginner. PS: I was commenting on the whole thread, and if you look through it you will see Steve mentioned as the OSM savant.

orblivion 3y ago

I'm trying my hand at organizing mapping events. In fact I'm doing one tomorrow by coincidence. The first few, I agonized over making sure everything was prepared, I have an agenda for how I think things will go. It's pointless. People are doing their own thing. One guy came with a phone without an Internet connection so we couldn't even edit the same area without saving over each other. He had to upload later and deal with the conflicts. At least, it's pointless for me. I guess I need a firmer hand or something. Or maybe it's because I'm not in a heavy population center (it's questionable that I could even start an OSM community here) and I'm at the mercy of whoever I can even get to show up. In Delhi I'm sure it's different. At this point I'm just going to aim for regular events, minimal planning on my part, less stress and more energy for more events. We'll figure it out as we go, as we end up doing anyway. Tomorrow is my first event with that approach, we'll see how it goes. I only have two other people showing up, so it should be simple.

contrapunctus 3y ago
Hey, author here. I guess this is something I should update the post to address. I guess I have always been in the "agonizing over every detail" stage, and remain so today (looks like we both have mapping parties tomorrow, because tomorrow's our 7th party :) ). In the beginning, we were much more "lax". We waited for latecomers. During the survey, we moved in one big group. We focused on the social aspect of the meetup - often, the meet-and-greet phase would go on for too long, and there wouldn't be much time spent in actual mapping. After each party, I would be disappointed to note that most people did not make significant map changes during the survey. In the 5th party, we decided to observe a stricter schedule, and tried a new approach - that of splitting up into teams, assigning an area to each team, surveying the assigned areas, then regrouping and reviewing the contributions. There was a radical difference. Everyone was contributing. A significant amount of data was gathered, and the social aspect of the meetup didn't seem to suffer as we feared it might. Delhi is very populous, but somehow there are very few OSM contributors here. [1] It's been a real struggle to get people interested in OSM, and even more of a struggle to keep them contributing in the long term. Most participants don't continue mapping after the mapping party/workshop. I prefer to think there's something off in my approach rather than in the people, because that gives me the energy to keep trying new things. It's great that you're organizing mapping parties in your region. I laud your initiative. Good luck for your parties! [1] India's OSM community seems to mostly be concentrated in the southern states. For the Delhi OSM community, Bangalore remains our inspiration both for OSM coverage and for mapping party productivity.

ilaksh 3y ago

I wonder if it would be possible to use a fine-tuned LLaVA 1.6 along with the GPS/phone orientation and reference tape measure etc. in images collected via app. I think if you can cover from multiple directions and aggregate the data effectively it could be pretty efficient. Not saying it's easy but I want to believe that a fine tuned open vision model can do a lot. Or just use Claude or GPT 4 vision.

contrapunctus 3y ago

Hi! Author here, wasn't expecting that someone would share this hastily-hacked-together post on HN ^^' Thanks for reading, and ask me anything! PS - I suspect some may have missed my footnotes if they were reading on mobile - tap the numbers to see them.

Tactician_mark 3y ago
Those footnote toggles that transition to margin notes on bigger screens are absolutely amazing! Definitely going to try stealing that, thank you :)
- contrapunctus 3y ago
  Glad you like them :D They come from the tufte-css project - https://github.com/edwardtufte/tufte-css https://github.com/edwardtufte/tufte-css
owenpalmer 3y ago
Hi, great article. I'm pretty new to OSM. One of my hobbies is 3D scanning for photogrammetry. Is there a good way to contribute 3d models (retopologized ofc) to OSM in some way? Could include drone scans or buildings, sculptures, etc.
- contrapunctus 3y ago
  Thanks! I've been interested in mapping with drones myself, but the cost has kept me out. The 3D Model Repository sounds like what you want. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D_Model_Repository https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D_Model_Repository Wikimedia Commons might work for this, too. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Commons#3D_models https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Commons#3D_mod... Tangentially, if you aren't already aware of them, you may be interested in OpenDroneMap (ODM) https://opendronemap.org/ https://opendronemap.org/ and OpenAerialMap (OAM) https://openaerialmap.org/ https://openaerialmap.org/

SamWhited 3y ago

I really enjoyed this! I've only tried to do this once and it was a bit of a failure (nobody showed up on the day despite a lot of interest), but since then I've done a lot of organizing in other fields (political stuff mostly) and have a lot more experience planning events. The mix of general organizing principals (call people, they're way more likely to show up) and OSM specific stuff in this article (don't map eg. a mall, it's more confusing for newbies) was really helpful and I think there are a lot of tips for organizing other kinds of things; everything from lan parties to mutual aid could benefit from this. Thank you OP!

NiggersofHN 3y ago

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