5 ms·

No one checks id on domestic flights in the U.S. at the gate.

by yareal 3y ago

csomar 3y ago
That's my point. The ID is usually checked in other countries for internal flights. It's either a missing policy item or an oversight from the crew.
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  It's not really worth the trade-off of slowing down boarding time by 2x just for the 1 in a million chance of someone sneaking onto a plane.
  - shaky-carrousel 3y ago
    It is worth in the rest of the world. And besides, I've been there and it's not 2x. Everyone has their ID ready and it just takes a glance to check.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      Worth it how?
      - resolutebat 3y ago
        On international flights, if an airline transports somebody who is rejected by the destination for not having the proper visas etc, they are heavily fined. So airlines are strongly incentivized to triple-check passengers and their documentation.
        kube-system 3y ago
        That's not a concern with a domestic US flight. If that's the reason why checking ID's is 'worth it', then it's not worth it.
      - shmeeed 3y ago
        Worth it as in there's literally no cost to doing it and it prevents unidentified people from boarding. As funny as I find the anecdote, I would prefer any airline knowing who's on my plane. Wouldn't you?
        coldpie 3y ago
        Not really, no, it's just one more thing to go wrong and for me to have to dig out of my pockets. I'm happy for things to move along more efficiently, airplane processes are slow and annoying enough as it is. I don't care if some other guy got on the wrong flight, intentionally or not. That's his business.
  - freetanga 3y ago
    Unless the ticket was bought by a stolen identity and then the boarding pass handed over to a person on a terrorist watchlist who boards with his genuine, mismatching ID That could be another 9-11. Worth the trade off ?
    - jrockway 3y ago
      I don't think the watchlists really do anything. Checking your ID against the boarding pass is just yield management for the airlines. (Compare the cost of a full fare economy ticket 45 minutes before the flight to what some desperate person would sell it to you for, knowing that they either use it or lose it.)
    - WrongAssumption 3y ago
      They check id and boarding pass at security before entering the terminal.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        The don't actually check boarding passes at security in the US in my recent experience. Though your ID may be tied to your ticket in the computer system in some manner.
    - BobaFloutist 3y ago
      How did the person on a terrorist watch-list make it through security in the first place, and why wouldn't that work for the actual boarding?
  - fnordian_slip 3y ago
    How do you get 2x? I'd say you slow down boarding by something between 0.00x% and 0.0y%, since it takes an extra couple of seconds to do that, at least with the German system. I'm intrigued about the system you are envisioning that creates the extra 100% delay.
  - exitb 3y ago
    It's not like the plane is going to leave earlier if the queue is processed faster.
    - cowsandmilk 3y ago
      Experience says otherwise; I routinely take use domestic flights that leave the gate early and take off early because they finished boarding early.
      - lupire 3y ago
        Maybe so, but that has nothing to do with the gate check-in. The bottleneck is at boarding the plane and seating. Passengers stand in line on the jetway after they check in at the gate. The only reason gatecheck is rushed is to reduce amount of staff-time required at the airport. It doesn't get the plane boarded more quickly.
      - anticensor 3y ago
        In Turkey, they are explicitly disallowed to do so, and has been the case even before 9/11, due to how Turkish transport licensure system works.
  - aenis 3y ago
    Also, this assumes the checks are actually performed - which is a compute intensive operation for a human (names in various languages, etc). I once accidentally swapped passports with my wife, and we both boarded without questions. We dont share last names, and, of course, dont look much alike. Its bad security to rely on tired people doing annoying repeatable tasks where the risk of something going wrong is so low.
- umvi 3y ago
  Security has a cost. Not just with computers but with airports and society as a whole. Making everything trustless and bulletproof encumbers everything and wastes many resources, including the most precious one - time.
  - exe34 3y ago
    I suspect project insight from Israel (lavender?) will be deployed in the US in the coming years and then the rest of the world shortly after that. It will be easier to keep us all safe once it's widely available. /s
    - kortilla 3y ago
      Safe from what? The problems we already don’t have?
      - BobaFloutist 3y ago
        Safe from all the highly effective plane-based attacks that have occurred since 9-11. Such as...you know, that one? And all the others, too.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
  Boarding time is a big factor in the cost structure of airlines. If they have to check ID of everyone who boards, it’s a lot slower. And in fact European airlines have a much slower turnaround time than Southwest. There’s already an ID check before you get airside, so another check during boarding is not needed for security. If all it accomplishes is revealing this edge case, which can be deterred by detection and enforcement after the fact, is it really worth making everyone wait and increasing costs?
  - quacksilver 3y ago
    Many airports I have been through do a facial scan during the first ID check and then have cameras at any other point the boarding pass is needed. If your face doesn't match the one stored against your boarding pass an hour or two ago then you have to seek assistance from an employee who will hopefully find out why that is.
  - shmeeed 3y ago
    I find it a bit strange that the concept of multilayered security would need explaining on HN, of all places.
    - fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
      If somebody was trying to do something serious, they’d have some kind of ID that would get them through the actual security checkpoint. It’s only this bizarre scheme (that didn’t even work) where checking ID again would matter. If we’re making an analogy to internet security, it’s like when websites use JavaScript to disable standard input into the password field. Just a pointless waste of everyone’s time.
  - sofixa 3y ago
    > And in fact European airlines have a much slower turnaround time than Southwest Comparing apples to apples, Ryanair (low cost, optimised to hell, 737 only, 3rd in the world by amount of passengers carried in front of Southwest in 4th for 2022) has a turnaround time of around 25 minutes, meanwhile Southwest's is around 35 minutes (official figures of what the airline says for both).
- i80and 3y ago
  It's not an "oversight from the crew". Checking ID at the gate is not a thing in the US for domestic flights, and that is a very good thing for boarding time overhead.
- kiwijamo 3y ago
  ID isn't checked for internal flights within New Zealand, and I note other posts here saying it's not for Australia as well. European seems 50/50. So doesn't seem like a consistent policy to check ID for interal flights.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
freetanga 3y ago
Did you know that your boarding pass is a life insurance? Back in the 90s in Argentina, nobody checked id for national flights. Was common to give ticket to a colleague were missing a meeting (this particular route was almost like a bus) Then a plane crashed at takeoff and everyone died. Some people got lucky because they gave the ticket to a colleague. Turns the family of said colleagues could not get a death certificate, recover bodies or get insurance as they “officially” weren’t on the plane nor insured.
- teekert 3y ago
  Incidentally the theme of a very nice dutch song, guy dies in rental car, burns out, wrong person identified, person is suddenly free, enjoys is, but is he brave, is he fleeing? Emotional ride for person. One of my fav songs, some beautiful sentences like "... And of all his boyhood dreams, only growing old was achieved..." [0] Over the years/decades of their career these artists return to the story of Herman (the main person). Absolutely beautiful (ultra-Dutch videoclip btw, it's how my grandparents lived). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZkbhA1NcTM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZkbhA1NcTM

No one checks id on domestic flights in the U.S. at the gate.

by yareal 3y ago

No one checks id on domestic flights in the U.S. at the gate.

That's my point. The ID is usually checked in other countries for internal flights. It's either a missing policy item or an oversight from the crew.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago
It's not really worth the trade-off of slowing down boarding time by 2x just for the 1 in a million chance of someone sneaking onto a plane.
- shaky-carrousel 3y ago
  It is worth in the rest of the world. And besides, I've been there and it's not 2x. Everyone has their ID ready and it just takes a glance to check.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    Worth it how?
    - resolutebat 3y ago
      On international flights, if an airline transports somebody who is rejected by the destination for not having the proper visas etc, they are heavily fined. So airlines are strongly incentivized to triple-check passengers and their documentation.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        That's not a concern with a domestic US flight. If that's the reason why checking ID's is 'worth it', then it's not worth it.
    - shmeeed 3y ago
      Worth it as in there's literally no cost to doing it and it prevents unidentified people from boarding. As funny as I find the anecdote, I would prefer any airline knowing who's on my plane. Wouldn't you?
      - coldpie 3y ago
        Not really, no, it's just one more thing to go wrong and for me to have to dig out of my pockets. I'm happy for things to move along more efficiently, airplane processes are slow and annoying enough as it is. I don't care if some other guy got on the wrong flight, intentionally or not. That's his business.
- freetanga 3y ago
  Unless the ticket was bought by a stolen identity and then the boarding pass handed over to a person on a terrorist watchlist who boards with his genuine, mismatching ID That could be another 9-11. Worth the trade off ?
  - jrockway 3y ago
    I don't think the watchlists really do anything. Checking your ID against the boarding pass is just yield management for the airlines. (Compare the cost of a full fare economy ticket 45 minutes before the flight to what some desperate person would sell it to you for, knowing that they either use it or lose it.)
  - WrongAssumption 3y ago
    They check id and boarding pass at security before entering the terminal.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      The don't actually check boarding passes at security in the US in my recent experience. Though your ID may be tied to your ticket in the computer system in some manner.
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    How did the person on a terrorist watch-list make it through security in the first place, and why wouldn't that work for the actual boarding?
- fnordian_slip 3y ago
  How do you get 2x? I'd say you slow down boarding by something between 0.00x% and 0.0y%, since it takes an extra couple of seconds to do that, at least with the German system. I'm intrigued about the system you are envisioning that creates the extra 100% delay.
- exitb 3y ago
  It's not like the plane is going to leave earlier if the queue is processed faster.
  - cowsandmilk 3y ago
    Experience says otherwise; I routinely take use domestic flights that leave the gate early and take off early because they finished boarding early.
    - lupire 3y ago
      Maybe so, but that has nothing to do with the gate check-in. The bottleneck is at boarding the plane and seating. Passengers stand in line on the jetway after they check in at the gate. The only reason gatecheck is rushed is to reduce amount of staff-time required at the airport. It doesn't get the plane boarded more quickly.
    - anticensor 3y ago
      In Turkey, they are explicitly disallowed to do so, and has been the case even before 9/11, due to how Turkish transport licensure system works.
- aenis 3y ago
  Also, this assumes the checks are actually performed - which is a compute intensive operation for a human (names in various languages, etc). I once accidentally swapped passports with my wife, and we both boarded without questions. We dont share last names, and, of course, dont look much alike. Its bad security to rely on tired people doing annoying repeatable tasks where the risk of something going wrong is so low.
umvi 3y ago
Security has a cost. Not just with computers but with airports and society as a whole. Making everything trustless and bulletproof encumbers everything and wastes many resources, including the most precious one - time.
- exe34 3y ago
  I suspect project insight from Israel (lavender?) will be deployed in the US in the coming years and then the rest of the world shortly after that. It will be easier to keep us all safe once it's widely available. /s
  - kortilla 3y ago
    Safe from what? The problems we already don’t have?
    - BobaFloutist 3y ago
      Safe from all the highly effective plane-based attacks that have occurred since 9-11. Such as...you know, that one? And all the others, too.
fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
Boarding time is a big factor in the cost structure of airlines. If they have to check ID of everyone who boards, it’s a lot slower. And in fact European airlines have a much slower turnaround time than Southwest. There’s already an ID check before you get airside, so another check during boarding is not needed for security. If all it accomplishes is revealing this edge case, which can be deterred by detection and enforcement after the fact, is it really worth making everyone wait and increasing costs?
- quacksilver 3y ago
  Many airports I have been through do a facial scan during the first ID check and then have cameras at any other point the boarding pass is needed. If your face doesn't match the one stored against your boarding pass an hour or two ago then you have to seek assistance from an employee who will hopefully find out why that is.
- shmeeed 3y ago
  I find it a bit strange that the concept of multilayered security would need explaining on HN, of all places.
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
    If somebody was trying to do something serious, they’d have some kind of ID that would get them through the actual security checkpoint. It’s only this bizarre scheme (that didn’t even work) where checking ID again would matter. If we’re making an analogy to internet security, it’s like when websites use JavaScript to disable standard input into the password field. Just a pointless waste of everyone’s time.
- sofixa 3y ago
  > And in fact European airlines have a much slower turnaround time than Southwest Comparing apples to apples, Ryanair (low cost, optimised to hell, 737 only, 3rd in the world by amount of passengers carried in front of Southwest in 4th for 2022) has a turnaround time of around 25 minutes, meanwhile Southwest's is around 35 minutes (official figures of what the airline says for both).
i80and 3y ago
It's not an "oversight from the crew". Checking ID at the gate is not a thing in the US for domestic flights, and that is a very good thing for boarding time overhead.
kiwijamo 3y ago
ID isn't checked for internal flights within New Zealand, and I note other posts here saying it's not for Australia as well. European seems 50/50. So doesn't seem like a consistent policy to check ID for interal flights.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

freetanga 3y ago

Did you know that your boarding pass is a life insurance? Back in the 90s in Argentina, nobody checked id for national flights. Was common to give ticket to a colleague were missing a meeting (this particular route was almost like a bus) Then a plane crashed at takeoff and everyone died. Some people got lucky because they gave the ticket to a colleague. Turns the family of said colleagues could not get a death certificate, recover bodies or get insurance as they “officially” weren’t on the plane nor insured.

teekert 3y ago
Incidentally the theme of a very nice dutch song, guy dies in rental car, burns out, wrong person identified, person is suddenly free, enjoys is, but is he brave, is he fleeing? Emotional ride for person. One of my fav songs, some beautiful sentences like "... And of all his boyhood dreams, only growing old was achieved..." [0] Over the years/decades of their career these artists return to the story of Herman (the main person). Absolutely beautiful (ultra-Dutch videoclip btw, it's how my grandparents lived). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZkbhA1NcTM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZkbhA1NcTM