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> This is just your perspective and, IMO, it's pretty warped. Software engineering is not a low-status position, even compared to doctors and lawyers. You aren'

by p_l 3y ago

> This is just your perspective and, IMO, it's pretty warped. Software engineering is not a low-status position, even compared to doctors and lawyers. You aren't lacking in status or not having sex because you're a software engineer getting paid $200k/year instead of a doctor paid $200k/year. I find that it definitely points to a time period when someone entered maybe not workforce, but the "IT world" let's say. There was a time when programming in many places had definitely "unsexy" vibe among general population, with a lot of, well, painful "jokes", and all of that definitely set a "theme". fast forward a decade or so to 2010 and suddenly IT is no longer that place where only losers go.

optimalquiet 3y ago
As it turns out, the massive money generated by software produces quite a lot of status. But the IT world is meaningfully different from software engineering. IT infrastructure (as distinct from creating software) pays less, generally, and is also regarded as much lower-status. IT is like auto mechanics to software engineering's automobile design. It's the blue collar equivalent, especially at the low level. At the high level, as far as I understand, it morphs with "cloud-engineering" or just general management and becomes higher-status. Unfortunately, I think this comes from how the entrance into IT is gated by working on low-level ("have you tried turning it off and on again?") problems, and putting slightly awkward, new-to-the-workforce nerds in a position where they need to help a lot of people with their computer problems. Many of whom are (understandably!) frustrated that their computer systems aren't working and/or don't totally understand why they won't work. So IT gets to see people at their worst and most frustrated, and people get to see IT at its most awkward and least experienced. So hostility forms on both sides. And first impressions sometimes last very long.
- p_l 3y ago
  The massive amounts of money is, largely, a post-2010 thing too. Before that, some hugely successful people in software outside of "nerd" circles were discussed often in terms disconnected with tech and more as just other (if wildly successful, like Bill Gates) business people.
jimbokun 3y ago
The stigma is different now. It’s not “you’re a loser”. It’s “you make a lot of money while ruining the world for everyone else.” Look at the jokes about Zuckerberg imitating a human. He’s obviously one of the most powerful people in the world. But looked down upon by creating a socially harmful product. Like cigarette company or oil company CEOs.

by p_l 3y ago

optimalquiet 3y ago

As it turns out, the massive money generated by software produces quite a lot of status. But the IT world is meaningfully different from software engineering. IT infrastructure (as distinct from creating software) pays less, generally, and is also regarded as much lower-status. IT is like auto mechanics to software engineering's automobile design. It's the blue collar equivalent, especially at the low level. At the high level, as far as I understand, it morphs with "cloud-engineering" or just general management and becomes higher-status. Unfortunately, I think this comes from how the entrance into IT is gated by working on low-level ("have you tried turning it off and on again?") problems, and putting slightly awkward, new-to-the-workforce nerds in a position where they need to help a lot of people with their computer problems. Many of whom are (understandably!) frustrated that their computer systems aren't working and/or don't totally understand why they won't work. So IT gets to see people at their worst and most frustrated, and people get to see IT at its most awkward and least experienced. So hostility forms on both sides. And first impressions sometimes last very long.

p_l 3y ago
The massive amounts of money is, largely, a post-2010 thing too. Before that, some hugely successful people in software outside of "nerd" circles were discussed often in terms disconnected with tech and more as just other (if wildly successful, like Bill Gates) business people.

jimbokun 3y ago

The stigma is different now. It’s not “you’re a loser”. It’s “you make a lot of money while ruining the world for everyone else.” Look at the jokes about Zuckerberg imitating a human. He’s obviously one of the most powerful people in the world. But looked down upon by creating a socially harmful product. Like cigarette company or oil company CEOs.