3 ms·

It's surely a drag, but I think we don't know how big of a drag it is. My expectation is that it's small. What are the overall vacancy rates? Single digit perce

It's surely a drag, but I think we don't know how big of a drag it is. My expectation is that it's small. What are the overall vacancy rates? Single digit percent? If yes, then it's not a big impact.

unclebucknasty 3y ago
>What are the overall vacancy rates? I don't believe that's the only measure of economic drag. For instance if, having no choice, people are spending a higher percentage of their income on rent, then it leaves less to spend on other economically stimulative activity, like frequenting a local coffee shop, buying clothes, etc.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  This. 30%+ of income just to acquire rental shelter isn't healthy. Especially when that regressively scales with income (i.e. people who make less pay a larger percent of their total income). And especially when the siphoned capital isn't being reinvested in new housing (because landlords and investors would rather collude and boost profit margins on existing stock).
kthejoker2 3y ago
Again, link in article we are all commenting on says vacancy rates are 30+% in New York metro. So seems like "we" (ie people who read the article before commenting) do in fact know how big a drag it is in certain markets.
- zbrozek 3y ago
  The article didn't say that at all. And vacancy rates in NYC aren't 30%. They're ~1.4%. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/08/nyregion/apartment-vacancy-rate-housing-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/08/nyregion/apartment-vacanc... I'm not claiming that this kind of service is good, or that having a trial is bad. I'm actually really interested in the judicial opinion because I could see it going either way. What I am saying is that it just doesn't feel plausible that this software is single handedly moving the market in a big way. People really do want to point to a single boogeyman for housing unaffordability. And that's too simplistic. Nationally we're short millions of units at a time when we're wealthier than ever. Low supply and high demand means rising prices. Fix it by making units easy and cheap to build.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    We aren’t short millions of units nationally. We are short millions of units in a few popular cities, while we have surpluses in other less desirable cities and locations. High demand in NYC is definitely not high demand in buffalo. But people need to be where the jobs are, and they aren’t in buffalo.
    - zbrozek 3y ago
      Rental vacancy in Buffalo is 4.9%. https://www.rate.com/research/buffalo-ny https://www.rate.com/research/buffalo-ny Better than NYC, but still low. For reference, the state defines anything below 5% vacancy as a 'housing emergency'.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Buffalo is popular right now because its rents are below national average. It isn't really that buffalo somehow is popular on its own, it is popular because it is cheap. This is completely different from NYC. Keep in mind that Buffalo used to have a lot more housing than it does today, it was more than one million people in 1970, and today, its just 800k or so.
        zbrozek 3y ago
        That sounds like we're short millions of units nationally, not just in a few cities.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Then please be my guest and volunteer to live in Detroit or Cleveland or Buffalo, rather than NYC, SF, Seattle, LA, etc... Keep in mind that Buffalo used to have more than one million people 50+ years ago, and now only has around 800k.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago

It's surely a drag, but I think we don't know how big of a drag it is. My expectation is that it's small. What are the overall vacancy rates? Single digit percent? If yes, then it's not a big impact.

unclebucknasty 3y ago

>What are the overall vacancy rates? I don't believe that's the only measure of economic drag. For instance if, having no choice, people are spending a higher percentage of their income on rent, then it leaves less to spend on other economically stimulative activity, like frequenting a local coffee shop, buying clothes, etc.

ethbr1 3y ago
This. 30%+ of income just to acquire rental shelter isn't healthy. Especially when that regressively scales with income (i.e. people who make less pay a larger percent of their total income). And especially when the siphoned capital isn't being reinvested in new housing (because landlords and investors would rather collude and boost profit margins on existing stock).

kthejoker2 3y ago

Again, link in article we are all commenting on says vacancy rates are 30+% in New York metro. So seems like "we" (ie people who read the article before commenting) do in fact know how big a drag it is in certain markets.

zbrozek 3y ago
The article didn't say that at all. And vacancy rates in NYC aren't 30%. They're ~1.4%. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/08/nyregion/apartment-vacancy-rate-housing-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/08/nyregion/apartment-vacanc... I'm not claiming that this kind of service is good, or that having a trial is bad. I'm actually really interested in the judicial opinion because I could see it going either way. What I am saying is that it just doesn't feel plausible that this software is single handedly moving the market in a big way. People really do want to point to a single boogeyman for housing unaffordability. And that's too simplistic. Nationally we're short millions of units at a time when we're wealthier than ever. Low supply and high demand means rising prices. Fix it by making units easy and cheap to build.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  We aren’t short millions of units nationally. We are short millions of units in a few popular cities, while we have surpluses in other less desirable cities and locations. High demand in NYC is definitely not high demand in buffalo. But people need to be where the jobs are, and they aren’t in buffalo.
  - zbrozek 3y ago
    Rental vacancy in Buffalo is 4.9%. https://www.rate.com/research/buffalo-ny https://www.rate.com/research/buffalo-ny Better than NYC, but still low. For reference, the state defines anything below 5% vacancy as a 'housing emergency'.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Buffalo is popular right now because its rents are below national average. It isn't really that buffalo somehow is popular on its own, it is popular because it is cheap. This is completely different from NYC. Keep in mind that Buffalo used to have a lot more housing than it does today, it was more than one million people in 1970, and today, its just 800k or so.
      - zbrozek 3y ago
        That sounds like we're short millions of units nationally, not just in a few cities.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Then please be my guest and volunteer to live in Detroit or Cleveland or Buffalo, rather than NYC, SF, Seattle, LA, etc... Keep in mind that Buffalo used to have more than one million people 50+ years ago, and now only has around 800k.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago